You're not going against or conflicting with anything besides possibly your lawyer (more on that in a minute). You're establishing boundaries, stating to your wife that her A and her continued bad behavior have real consequences. You are saying that you will not put up with her sleeping with OM and then coming home to the family. One or the other, you have morals. Except you're doing it because you care. You care about your relationship, you care about the kids, you care about preserving your love for her, etc. She may not care about any of those things but you do. Right?

You're also bringing up how the advice on this thread is conflicting with your lawyer's. Well duh!

Your lawyer and the people on this board have two different goals. Your friends here want to see you end your wife's affair, recover your marriage (if you want) and preserve the love you still have for her. Your lawyer wants to preserve your wealth and access to the kiddos during and after the divorce proceedings. Those two goals are NOT wholly compatible. Not saying you can't work towards both but one of those goals will inevitably become "dominant". Make sense?

Ultimately you have to choose how you want to act; only you have to look in the mirror at yourself at the end of the day. I will say though that if you continue to eat her abuse without establishing proper boundaries, you will likely come to hate her before all this is said and done. And in the end, if this progresses towards divorce that might be a good thing.

T

My WW broke my spirit this morning, but I'm still trying to stay strong.

I think I keep making mistakes, such as the text messages last night. Early this morning, I sent her an e-mail basically saying that I don't subscribe to her theory about the kids that "They'll be fine. They'll adjust". In doing so, I wrote that 75% of children from broken marriages suffer from emotional or psychological effects over the short- and long term. Thus, there is a 93% probability that one of our kids will suffer and a 56% chance that both will suffer. I went ahead and justified my actions for speaking with my son's school advisor and having him see the psychologist.

In another comment, she said that I say too F***ing much in front of the kids, and that's what'll hurt them. And I said that her F***ing around with her boyfriend while we're married won't?

I also told her this morning that my lawyer will soon be calling her lawyer, in that it makes no sense to spend attorney fees to go to court when she is not going to get spousal support.

Somewhere along the way, she said that I act like we're not getting a divorce, and that I should make it easy so we don't have to spend alot of money on lawyers that could otherwise be used for the kids. Kind of a foregone conclusion in her mind. I simply said that I realized that I made mistakes in the past (which really were nothing short of not paying attention to ENs), and she said that my mistakes from the past have caused the damage that cannot be repaired. This is what broke my spirit this morning, but I didn't show it. I certainly feel it .... still.

Trying to be strong. Trying not to give up. Her relationship with OM is probably in full gear right now and seems virtually impossible to bust up.

Look, the common theme of this thread has been posters telling you to man up. MAN UP. What does that mean to you? Everyone has a different idea of what that means but I'd like to give you my take.

Man up means you need to be unafraid of making a decision. You're paralyzed with fear. Everything people are telling you to do seems like the wrong thing to do, will make your wife mad, etc. Sound about right? Your paralysis is going to cost you everything. You need to be unafraid to make a tough choice and work towards a goal. You need to decide.

1. Actively work towards ending your wife's affair with the intent of possibly restoring your relationship or

2. Divorce your wife.

That's it, it's that simple and you need to choose ASAP. Right now your wife is driving the relationship and she's drunk behind the wheel. Do you honestly think she's going to sober up before the wreck? This relationship with the OM is not going to end unless you take DRASTIC measures to wreck it. If you don't want to take those measures, that's fine but DECIDE to divorce your wife, don't sit back and let it happen. You need to be in control of this situation and the only way you're going to do that is to come to a decision.

Man up.

Man up.

For goodness sake, MAN UP.



In the end you won't be sorry you took control of this situation and did what was right for YOU instead of getting hosed by your WW.

T

Munny, she's acting like a typical wayward.
We all make these mistakes - Plan A isn't easy. Don't beat yourself up for them - learn from them and improve.

Though you are absolutely correct, this probably falls under educating the WS which unfortunately doesn't work. The whole "They'll be fine, they'll adjust" is straight out of the waynerd handbook.

Something I found had an actual impact on WstbxH whenever he blamed me for anything was to simply say "this was your choice" - over and over. The other thing was "These are your actions, I'm just telling the truth." These statements stopped a few wild rages in mid-tantrum.

Again, very typical wayward-speak. Of course you felt it but good job not showing it!

Keep up the attack on the A. I still say sell the car. Remember, any assault on the A is not a LB, even if it does make her furious.

I do say this is "your choice" alot, and she agrees.

By the way, the process server finally caught me this morning, and I got served the divorce papers. Unfortunately, they weren't in any kind of official envelope, so I can't just leave it on the table at home appearing unopened.

Ignoring them won't make the process stop. The case will move on with or without you and you DON'T want to be in default. If you do nothing, she wins and gets whatever she wants. CALL YOUR ATTORNEY and tell him you've been served. You only have so many days to "answer" the complaint.

Did you know that even though PA prefers "no fault" divorces that they DO recognize fault?

Pennsylvania Family Law Firm


Tell your attorney you want to "ANSWER" and allege adultery naming your WW's affair partner.

Time to start fighting back legally! But even though you do these things, you DO NOT discuss the divorce with your WW. You tell her you won't discuss it. That's what the lawyers are for. That allows you room to continue with your Plan A.

Do I really sound that bad? You're almost right in that I don't know what I want, only in that I want our marriage to be back again, but I also want to end this pain I'm in. If I could advance the clock and know where this was going to be in one year, then the decision would be easier. Listening to what everyone here on the forum says, everything the WW is doing comes right from the book, but this forum is giving me the hope that the marriage can be repaired, but she keeps denying that possibility. I'm not sure what to think.

I also do NOT know how to end this A, and what drastic measures I could take. I feel like I've exhausted all available options. If she is truly in love with him, it seems difficult or impossible to stop, except just letting the fire burn out on its own. Until then, I will certainly endure alot of pain.

MG:
My brother provided a car for his WW during the divorce, while she was living in the marital home (with OM)- so his WW could have a safe vehicle to drive his son around in.

It was in his name and he paid insurance.

The jack A$$ WW let the drunk OM drive the car- and he killed himself (and another motorist) driving drunk. Altho my brother's son was not it the car at the time, he picked up the smashed up car seat, and smushed toys off the freeway later that night. The OM had no drivers lic, - due to prior DUI's.

The other killed motorists family WAS attempting to sue. Guess WHO got the Lawsuit? You guess it- my brother. The car and insurence was in his name. No one cared that he had no control over who drove the auto.
The dumb bunny WW who really was the responsible party for allowing OM to drive was held unaccountable.

OH YEAH! She asked for (and he bought) another car. This was before he smartened up.

Scouts honor - honest truth 100%. You could not write a story this wierd.

Wow, what a story. I'm waiting for resolution to the spousal support hearing before selling the car. It may also be resolved between the attorneys, rather than in the courts. My lawyer will be calling the other lawyer within the next couple days. I just mailed my retainer yesterday.

Don't delude yourself, there's a "possibility" that your relationship could be repaired. Note the quotes. I think the ratio of women coming back to men is significantly lower than men coming back to women. I know I've seen someone quote Dr. Harley on that. If you go that route where you do a real Plan A potentially followed by a Plan B, your road will be uphill and incredibly steep.

Look again at what I said; your wife is driving your relationship and is drunk behind the wheel. She's not going to sober up before you both crash. If you wait and see how this turns out, you WILL be divorced. She's already initiated, the divorce will be finalized before the A dies a natural death. All the things you've been told to do, sell the car, boot your wife out of the house, etc is ALL designed to end the affair by forcing your wife to RELY on the OM like she currently relies on you. At this rate, she won't have to count on him until just before the divorce finalizes and by that point, it will be too late.

See why you have to make a choice? There's no magic crystal ball that will tell you how this is going to end but either way, if you make the choice and head toward your goal with confidence and poise, you will be better off no matter what happens. That's a win-win, not a lose-lose.

T

Another story about having a car in your name (not adultery related but true). My car-pool guy sold a car privately. The buyer didn't bother to go to the MTO and have the ownership changed right away. Instead, he got pulled over, the car was searched and drugs were found. Cops showed up at car-pool guy's house, put him under arrest for possession and traffiking. The charges were dropped when he provided evidence that he had sold the car, but he still had to go through the ordeal.

You may not think your WW is capable of DUI, drug possession or anything else illegal, but she's not the woman you married right now. And you don't know OM from Adam - who knows what he's capable of?

I have told you everything I can think of to end this affair.

The choice of whether you want to actually do it are up to you.

Man up! It is the only way you will save your dignity, even in divorce.

MG,

Before you sell your WW's car, put the GPS tracker on it and find out who OM is so you can expose on his side.

EXPOSURE is the greatest weapon you have...so get it done!!

Next, you must stop arguing w/ her or trying to educate her. That is love busting her!!!

Selling her car is NOT a LB. It is demonstrating STRENGTH. Which leads to RESPECT.

Before a woman can love you, she must respect you.

She will be PO. She will sic her parents after you. She will tell you that you are nuts....but she will also get the message that you will not sit back and let her destroy your family w/o a fight.

Now about the chances you have to recover your M...let's look at the stats..95% of all A's fail. Of those that lead to M, only 1% of them last. While on the other hand, 60% of all M's recover from A's. So, the stats are in your favor.

I'd say your chances of recovery are greater than that b/c you are HERE.

I'm going to put out a call out for Mortarman for you b/c he is just so awesome at this.

Brother, you're being played. The next thing she'll tell you is that perhaps there's hope for you guys someday but there won't be if you make things bitter and difficult. Now if you could just be a good boy and play along we'll all get along better and might even be good friends someday.

The longer you sit idly by and do nothing, paralyzed with fear, the greater the chance of you getting royally hosed in the end.

Mortarman had a wife that was just as fogged out as yours. YOU are royally fogged out with fear.

Yes, she's convinced she's in love with OM. So what are you doing to end the fantasy?

Your fear, inability to man up, and her manipulation will all combine in a perfect storm to get you separated from your kids and without your stuff. Then, about a year after you're divorced and you see another man living with your ex and seeing your kids more than you, your heart will be filled with anger and hate and you'll have some ugly and disturbing thoughts.

You'll then become one of those sad stories of men who went over the edge, killed his ex and his former in laws while wearing a Santa suit.

The difference between men like that and those who don't do it is self discipline. Some people just snap.

DivorceCare had a whole section about anger and the dark thoughts associated with it and the irrational behavior of betrayed spouses (irrational under normal circumstances, understandable when you've been betrayed).

You will feel anger, rage, and hatred like you've never felt before.

And that anger will be fed when you look back and see how YOU allowed her to get away with it all because of YOUR fear and inability to do the things you needed to do to both keep your stuff and secure your rights as a father.

You are now in Plan D. It's not your choice. The ball is rolling towards divorce and your fear is paralyzing you with thoughts of "how can I save this?"

The only thing that will increase your chances to save your marriage is tough love and tough actions. Things that pis s off WWes.

These actions may not bring her back, but appeasement and inaction will guarantee failure. You're in the process of appeasement and inaction.

Yes, Man up. You're otherwise doomed and are being forewarned.

Mortarman fought this fight with tough love, ticked off his WW royally, and saved his marriage because the last thing he ever did was appease and make things easy.

I appeased and made things easy. Which path do you think I wish I had taken in hindsight?

Wake up!

(I think) I came up with a great idea last night and I've been rehearsing it in bed for the past hour or so. Tell me what you think.

Some folks from the gym go to this monthly beer-testing event at a local bar (WW and I used to go to this together in the past) which is tonight. Well, I am planning to show up and make a BIG scene. Here's how I rehearsed it. First, I say hello to the other gym folks who I already know. Then, with my already loud voice, I will announce to the crowd (pointing my finger at OM),

"Hey everybody, listen up. This guy's name is OM (using his name). This scum bag has been sleeping with my wife and he doesn't care that we've been married for 16 years with 2 kids. Treat him with the respect he deserves. Again, this dirt bag's name is [OM] and he lives in [town]."

I then walk up to him, look him in the eye and say, "Enjoy the rest of the evening with my wife", then spit in his face. Then, I'd leave.

I am hoping to draw him to throw a punch, not fight back, and then file assault charges (maybe calling the police to the scene, which also gets his info on record that I cannot seem to find) and get my attorney to sue him, even if there's no chance of winning. Just to make things hard on him. This is focused only on him and not WW, as my only feeble attempt at getting at him.

OK. Chime in. Good idea, bad idea? Is spitting in his face considered assault?

Sigh. IMHO I'd say this is a bad idea. The point is to assault the affair, not the other man. And yes, spitting on him would potentially be considered assault, there's precedent. Maybe not in PA (I didn't check that deep) but here's an example:

Spitting is Assault in CA

In regard to that kind of exposure at an event, I'll let others who know what they're talking about answer you but I really wouldn't do anything to provoke some sort of physical altercation. That can land you in a world of legal hurt as well as potentially physically injured. Heck, you have no idea if this guy carries a conceiled weapon. Is this worth getting stabbed, shot or beat to death over?

T

I say do it as you describe but don't spit in his face for the mentioned reasons.

Nothing wrong with public humiliation of OM.

The attempt at public humiliation might backfire, particularly if WW rises to the defense of OM with some choice comments of her own. WWs can be evil creatures - don't underestimate them!

I spoke to my sister-in-law about the idea this morning and she also thought it was a bad idea. I guess these are some of the things that go through your mind while you lay awake at night. However, she suggested that I go to the event and calmly talk to all the other folks (most know of the affair) and this will make WW and OM feel really uncomfortable all night, if they even decide to stay. She claims (as a woman) that this would bother them a whole lot more.