Hi All,
My story is here http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=154162&Number=2187787#Post2187787
and long...
Someone hit on the fact that my WH is possibly feeling emasculated. I am absolutely sure this is the case and would like to know if there are threads about this and/or articles. This is a huge point with us in our relationship - I am too strong for him. He has actually told me he likes weak women. The two affairs he has had are with poor women. One was for all intents and purposes, homeless, (I actually gave her an apartment to live in for a couple of months not knowing she was screwing my H - at that apartment... nice eh?) and the other is a poor immigrant to his country (who is his soulmate by the way).
As you can maybe tell by my tone, I am quickly losing all love for this man but he is the father of my three small kids - I want to keep loving him. Advice regarding him feeling emasculated would be really helpful because I think this is a big, big issue for us.
thanks
Q

No!

WH's usually trade down in an affair. Easier to pick up some one that will not be choosey. It's not about finding some one hotter than their BW. It's about getting their ego boosted.

Look deep inside yourself. Examine yourself and your relationship. Look at what past LBs were being thrown out there by you. Think about your marriage.

If you are indeed in Plan A, then you should be calm, cool, collected and trying to meet his ENs. Not dominering (sp?) and emasculating.

My sense is the FOG is leading him to say these things about you. He's trying to justify his actions...engaging in an A. It's a very different approach than the typical "I love you, but not in love with you" or "I've not loved you for a while" BS that WS use.

Stick to Plan A. REad more here. Seek advice from the experts here...(note, I'm not one of them at this time).

Hang in there. We feel for you and support you.

This struck a chord with me and I'll tell you a bit of my story.

For years my H and I have been in and out of MC, and many times I heard the emasculating remark. It is very shaming. Made me feel like what I was doing and saying and what I expected was wrong.

For years my H acted like a child...selfish, irresponsible, throwing tantrums, etc. I did not respect him as an adult, and neither should I have. It was not my actions that emasculated him, it was him.

My mistake was trying to throw that shame back at him, and trying to shame him into acting better, by saying things like, "When are you going to act like a man?" Yes, sounds very emasculating.

Things didn't change until he started doing work with people...men...who were up front with him about his irresponsible behavior and held him accountable. It was only then he could hear me. And I was able to get more honest and say to him, "I don't respect you when you yell at me and the kids." Or, "When you are irresponsible with money I feel unsafe and unloved."

I realized that my "emasculating" tone was my hurt for feeling unloved and I wanted to hurt him back.

I think you have a sense of what is right and what is wrong. And can determine what your boundaries are, what is acceptable and what is not, and can be clear about it without trying to hurt him...

Feeling emasculated? That's a good one. If I ever decide to go out and get some strange, I'll have to remember it.

The Road,
That is not what I am saying at all. I am 100% certain that he traded down. I do not know her, never seen her - but I am so sure that he traded down and is making a huge mistake that this is not the issue. But then again, maybe it is. It is my confidence that emasculates him. In this affair I hate to say it but I have actually begun to almost laugh at him and his 'soulmate'. I think it's a (sick) joke. I find them ridiculous. I know the affair won't last. I also realize that they really do believe they are soulmates and that WH is suffering as well and I should respect that. It is a still too hard for me, honestly, to accept that he is choosing to do this in front of my face and at the same time suffering. At the same time I have not done a great job so far in Plan A. I talk about the A way too much and have repeatedly asked him to leave her and told him repeatedly that it will never last. Unfortunately I'm to the point that it is hard for me to continue to try to meet his EN's because of the loss of love I'm feeling right now.

He is coming to the island where I live for a visit at the end of January and I would like to keep plan A active until this visit and go into plan B afterwards. Otherwise I am certain I would already be in plan B.

I could have written that - except the part that puts it in past tense...


This is not what I do. I just plain am strong. He has let me take over everything, the banking, the insurance, the care of the apartment and all of our rental apartments, the care of the children, the fixing of the cars, going to get new license plates, things like that - absolutely everything is my responsibility. Because he has just left our life together little by little without me really noticing it. But then says that I am too masculine and he feels, with good reason, that he is not needed. He certainly is not but this was his choice. The only thing he does is earn money and that is the only thing I really do not do. (Scary for me right now).


I don't know if anything like this will ever happen in WH's life. Would be wonderful. I have tried the 'I don't respect you when you yell at me' (and/or the kids) and his most frequent response is that he has the right to speak his mind however that may be (yelling or swearing or whatever). I accuse him of verbal abuse... and here we find ourselves.


I wonder if I am simply being verbally abused and my speaking out is the issue. I have never said anything like, 'then be a man' - absolutely never. I have repeatedly told him he is like his father (a violent, horrible man in my eyes who verbally abused WH and his sister and continues to verbally abuse WH's mother).

Does telling him he is verbally abusing me and/or telling him he is like his father constitute emasculating him or have anything to do with this subject?

Thanks
Q

EMASCULATION was an issue for my H..actually used that word many, many times...

OW PRIMARILY met his NEED for ADMIRATION...she was MUCH YOUNGER, not educated and not as well off as us...

MY PLAN A PRIMARILY focused on demonstrating my ability to meet this need and me expressing SINCERE REGRET over EMASCULATING him...

My EMASCULATION involved DISRESPECTING HIM as a MAN..RESPECT is equated with LOVE for him and many men...

I highly recommend the book "LOVE AND RESPECT" by Eggerichs...

I don't read or post much these days...but want you to know that "GETTING THIS" was the KEY for ME..for US..

We have been happily recovered for 6 years..

My HUSBAND LOVES MY STRENGTH..that's not the issue..the issue was my DISRESPECT of him...it's not EITHER or OR...I can be a STRONG WOMAN without criticizing him or putting him down...

Thank you Mimi.
I am just so torn though because I do not put him down. He puts me down. He verbally abuses me. I just do not know if this is our issue or not. I really need to sit down and think about it. It is hard for me because I tend to not remember what it was like before D-day - or actually before the affairs began. Because once the first affair started he was verbally abusing me like mad. I honestly do not remember how it was before that. Probably much, much better but I do not remember.

Mimi, what did you do to demonstrate admiration? That is definitely WH's primary need as well. And as you can see he also choose the poor, needy, young type.

thanks,
Q

My H was also VERBALLY ABUSIVE once he began his affair. He seemed filled with HATE and DISGUST towards me. Now I realize the reason for his behavior. He continually tried to justify and rationalize his waywardness by continually trying to convince himself that I was the VILLAIN.


I religiously read HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS. You may find reading the chapter on ADMIRATION to be particularly helpful.

I expressed APPRECIATION for what he had done for me and our family IN THE PAST. I couldn't honestly talk about his GOODNESS and GREATNESS while he was a WAYWARD. I could say THANK-YOU though when he did simple stuff like washing dishes or emptying the trash, etc.

I apologized for DISRESPECTING him...IN THE PAST...told him that I was aware of the mistakes that I had made and was immediately working on changing.

My errors were in being self-righteous, wanting things MY WAY..wanting him to be who I wanted him to be..not listening to HIM...not ACCEPTING him..trying to CHANGE him...He was WRONG and I was almost always RIGHT...YUCK...

I didn't ever EXCUSE him, though, for having an affair. Although I could have done much, much better. I never deserved that. No one deserves that.

Mimi, our stories always seemed so similar to me. I could have written the same things you just did.

There are things that even a strong, capable, confidant, intelligent woman can do to help her man feel manly. Schoolbus I think has written some great posts about body language - things like, hold hands so that his hand is on the outside; touch his arm, feeling his bicep; put your hand up to his hand, palm to palm, and look at how big his hand is compared to yours; etc.

You can also work harder on meeting the Admiration EN. That's often an important one for men, especially men who seem to want to "rescue" less fortunate women - and it sounds like your H fits that description. Think of things to tell him that you genuinely admire about him, even i you have to pull something from the past. Even if you have to think hard to find something. There must be *something* god you can say, no one is all bad. Feed the good and it will grow. Positive reinforcement.

Is he at all handy around the house? Are there tasks you can have for him to do when he visits?

qwertyuiop - I think 'emasculation' is a common cause of marital problems. With feminism has come women's scorn for femininity, which is viewed as being weak and submissive.

Also scorn for men (men are the new blondes), and the championning of strong masculine women.

Women often pride themselves on showing their man and the world who's boss. Their 'sisters' encourage them. Every other woman is doing it, so it must be right.

Yet these same 'strong women' so often complain that men aren't masculine enough, and I wonder if you feel this way too - "I'm too strong for him".

I hope I'm not doing you a disservice. Being 'strong' is good, if you mean resilient and determined.

But if you mean you make all the decisions (because you think you're strong and your man's hopeless), that you must prevail, I have some advice.

If you want your H to be more masculine, create space for this. Be more feminine.

You like masculine men, right? How do you think men feel about feminine women?

I like this. I have to look for the threads on this subject. I am doing this long distance but he will be visiting at the end of January for a couple of weeks. So I need to do what I can then in the touch dept. I do not want to SF with him because of STD's right now while he is full on with OW.


YES. That is my WH in a nutshell right now. On a side note I think this whole rescuing thing is going to make the A drag on longer than maybe it would because he already feels guilt towards her and that he owes it to her to stay with her because she 'needs' him. (and left her BF for him).

Admiration is clearly his number 1 EN and sooooooo hard for me to do right now. I like your and Mim's examples of admiring things he's done for me and the family in the PAST. I can do that at least.


I like the 'feel the good and it will grow' because right now I'm feeling the bad and it's growing. I hope to be able to take a step backwards and get back some of that positive. Reading and posting here is helpful.


Not really. This has actually been one of our problems. Not only is he not handy but he cannot speak to the repairmen because he is so hesitant about his English. So I have become ENTIRELY in charge of all 5 apartments we own and getting all repairs, maintenance done - and in the Caribbean that is a heck of a lot of work. I do NOT want this job but he has left it up to me. (And now says, "this is the life YOU wanted, YOU deal with it!". And he is off screwing OW. Again, you can see in my attitude how uphill a battle against my own self I have right now. I need to get back some semblance of positive thoughts toward WH.

Well, I don't actually [b]complain[/b that he is not masculine enough BUT that is a great point and probably deep inside me that is how I feel. I need to work through that. I think more than 'masculine' - it's childishness - he is not responsible for his actions. When he makes a mistake driving it is ALWAYS someone else's fault - (the complaining about other drivers on the road is a CONSTANT - and I think it gives a good look at how he views himself and others). But I'm sure someone here will tell me that acting like a child is probably not a 'masculine' trait and that me seeing him as such is not helping.


How do you suggest doing this without appearing foolish? some suggestions are welcome.

After D-day 1 I went out and bought all sorts of sexy underwear and threw out all the old stuff. I proceeded to sleep in this underwear (also I had lost a lot of weight and felt much more comfortable doing this). But then D-day 2 happened and I just felt like an idiot. I know it's not only clothes and underwear - it's attitude - but changing my personality isn't exactly going to happen. changing my attitude may.

The thing is that i have a LOT on my plate. I absolutely need to be and stay strong. I just try to take care of the day to day. Three small kids, 4 rental apartments with guests coming and going and the advertisements to put out and upgrade and keep active and e-mails to and from guests, maintenance, condo meetings, bills to pay, insurance, etc. that go along with that, huge immigration problems where I live that MUST be dealt with in the short term, car trouble, cooking, cleaning, etc. Plus I must absolutely do some things for me - so I jog, surf and take some language classes. I also need to read and try to read something other than stuff on affairs - but a good deal of my free time is spent reading self help books and this website. I just don't have the time left in my day to NOT be strong and to NOT do what needs to be done.

Now can I be that strong person and still be feminine? I would think so but maybe not in WH's mind. The funny thing is that when we met I know he LOVED my strength. I know he did and I always tried to BE strong because I thought it was necessary for him. He used to tell me that he GF before me was depressed, always in bed and he would worry if he came home from work to find me in bed, even when I was pregnant. He thought I would become weak like her and this would have been a huge problem for him. Me taking care of things around the house, I viewed as a big help to him to make his life easier. He also complains incessantly if the house is messy and/or not organized and has chided me to no end about how 'disorganized' I am. Has used the word disorganized with me constantly for several years.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. We are talking about masculinity and femininity. So lets have some suggestions as to being feminine. I am willing to try. I know he needs admiration... gotta work on that.

Thanks
Q

In regards to your ATTITUDE, are you saying that you think you will APPEAR FOOLISH if you EVIDENCE your FEMININITY????


OF COURSE!! It seems that you MAY have a NEGATIVE VIEW of FEMININITY?? I have some AMERICAN ROLE MODELS for you...some HIGHLY FEMININE POWERFUL WOMEN..emphasis on POWER...

As I said to ya previously, you CAN be this way..NEED to be this way in order to FIGHT the AFFAIR..AND...AND...also meet the ADMIRATION NEED...

It's about EMOTIONAL NEEDS...SHE is meeting the ADMIRATION NEED but there are also other needs..PHYSICAL ATTRACTION..CONVERSATION...AFFECTION...these other needs are met by a POWERFUL WOMAN...a WOMAN is FEMININE...

PLAN A is about showing your capacity to meet his EMOTIONAL NEEDS..PLURAL...

I'm SOOOOO agreeing to what the others have said to ya....

Here you go..he is ATTRACTED by your STRENGTH..


Hon, this is HUGE...

It's IMPORTANT in PLAN A for you to work on THIS NEED..DOMESTIC something another..I want to call it DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY but that's not what HARLEY calls it..that's one of my H's major EMOTIONAL NEEDS as well...A MAN wants a HOME...to be able to retreat to his CAVE...

Sit and listen to him when he is talking...

Give him your UNDIVIDED ATTENTION..

Look into his eyes intently...

Just SIT DOWN beside him...behavioral message: "I want to BE with YOU, MY MAN"...

Laugh at his JOKES..or just laugh at stuff he says that's funny...I didn't know how much this meant but I've noticed that when I LAUGH, my H OFTEN repeats what he has said AGAIN so that I will LAUGH again..he LOVES to make me LAUGH...but someone (a woman) recently told me that they like my laugh..WHO KNEW????

He probably still loves your strength. Its just that the degree it manifests itself has changed. As your life has changed and gotten more complicated, you have seized control over more and more things. In one respect, control is about removing vulnerabilities. And for many men, vulnerable is feminine.


Find things you need him to do that you can not do for yourself. If he does them, praise him mightily. If he doesn't, then, without being over the top, express how hurt and injured you are.

Obviously, there is a balance here. So its not give him a "to do" list and nag him about it. Its about demonstrating that you need him and reward him when he delivers. I would suspect OW need him and it is readily apparent. With you, he has no doubt you don't need him, so just showing admiration isn't going to mean anything, it will sound superficial and false. So set him up to earn your admiration.

Most likely this will be hard for you to do. Unfortunately when you rely on someone, they can let you down.


The above suggests you may not be able to do this. You should probably think about that some.

Just my two cents.