Dawn,

I would strongly recommend coaching with one of the Harleys over just a run of the mill counselor.[click on the coaching center link at the top of the page for info] Most counselors do not understand the dynamics of infidelity well enough to help you at all...Rather, they would have you come in and wax on about OM and your feelings...That would NOT help you or your marriage...That would merely be wound picking...You need more of an action based program...

One of THE most important things that I learned here is that FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...So start doing positive things...Filling your husband's ENs...Finding a church...Finding a hobby that you can both enjoy together, etc...



Okay Missy, I'm gonna whack ya for that... [Dawn~~~>:crosseyedcrazy::twobyfour:<~~~Mrs. W]

OM is NONE of your concern!!!

Perfect time for the ***INAPPROPRIATE THOUGHT*** thing!

REFOCUS your thoughts, time and energy on your marriage...

Mrs. W

You are so right...INAPPROPRIATE THOUGHT. It's very hard to keep your thoughts from straying sometimes. I'm trying very hard not to think of OM and I'm finding lately that I am thinking of him less and less and going for much longer periods without OM entering my mind. But, it's still a struggle.
I looked at the coaching center. It's a great thought but who can afford it in this economy? And, we all know that I don't work...wish I did if for nothing else than something to do.
MB has helped me alot and I think I will order some of the books to read from the Harleys. Maybe that will be of some help.
I'm still hurting and quite depressed but in the midst of all that still trying to meet my BS's EN's and am still in the learning process.
I am sleeping much better at night and am not so nauseaous feeling all the time. Concentrating on doing positive things.

Yes, getting the books would be a GREAT help...I first picked up and began reading Surviving An Affair when in withdrawal...I was DESPERATE for something to make me feel better, so I get it...And it DID help...Why? Because it was an ACTION taken to improve our marriage and like I told you earlier...

FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...

So get yourself busy with ACTIONS to make your circumstances better...Happiness is DEFINITELY a CHOICE, so CHOOSE to be happy by ACTING...

Think about all the time, energy and focus you spent on the affair...What happened? Your FEELINGS FOLLOWED YOUR ACTIONS...

So the KEY to this is to begin to ACT in positive ways towards your husband and marriage and then your FEELINGS will most certainly FOLLOW...

What are some ACTIONS that you are taking to improve things Dawn?

Mrs. W

I am going to get the book you suggested. It sounds like a good idea.
Some of the things that I am doing are: more talking, I did the EN form and printed one for him--so far nothing on that. I try to do the things that I know he needs me to do as far as taking care of the house, meals, bills and just anything that I know he needs.
We don't see each other much because he leaves really early in the a.m. and is only home for about 2 hours before having to go to bed so, not alot of time for anything really. He also works Saturdays so the only day we have is Sunday. We went out this past Sunday and had a nice time and just spent some good quality time together so that was good.
I know these things sound superficial but I am really trying. Any other suggestions are welcome. I'm going to get the book.

Dawn,

It really concerns me how little time you and your husband are spending together...Dr. Harley recommends that a couple in a healthy marriage spend at least 15 hours/wk together and MORE for a couple in crisis...

Can you speak lovingly to your husband about this? Saying something like..."I want us to fall in love again and here is how we can do it." or "Our marriage has really suffered these past few years and I want to start putting you first."

Also something that Mr. W and I did early in recovery was to get His Needs, Her Needs on CD and listen to it together on a roadtrip pausing to talk about certain things we heard. That was really helpful to us and marked a turning point in our recovery.

What do you think?

Mrs. W

I think it's a great idea and you are right about the time issue. But, with this job that he is on he has to put in the long hours. There's not much that he can do about that. I am going to look into the cd that you recommended.

Dawn,

Approximately how many hours/wk are you and your husband spending together right now?

As I said, it must be AT LEAST 15...Those 15 hours are to be spent having intimate conversation, doing recreational activities, showing affection and having SF (sexual fulfillment)...Dr. Harley recommends career change if a couple isn't getting the hours in...He says that a career is to serve your marriage and family and NOT the other way around...He has even advised Doctors to change career paths because of the time issues surrounding their careers...

Time together is simply that important if you wish to "Fall in love/Stay in love"...This is critical Dawn...

Mrs. W

Can you suggest any other extraordinary precautions?

Are you asking me if there is another way besides spending time together, Dawn?

You need to eliminate all conditions that made the affair possible...I suspect one of those conditions as being that the two of you are never together...This MUST change if your marriage is to survive and thrive...

How much time/week are the two of you spending together?

Mrs. W

I'll ask you again. Tell us about your boundaries. What allowed you to go down this path?


And how specifically did he portray this care. What were the words or what things did he do?


Dr. Harley will tell you that A's are caused by 2 things. A lack of extreme precautions and unmet needs. Of the 2, a lack of extreme precautions is by far the most important. These are your boundaries where you allow someone of the opposite sex to meet your emotional needs. What are those critical emotional needs and what are your boundary weaknesses that allowed this to happen?

As, Mrs. W is stating, by spending 15 hours of undivided attention with your H meeting each others emotional needs will create a romantic relationship.

For your H, it is likely his most important needs are sexual fulfillment, recreational companionship, and because of the A, honesty and openness. Are these his needs? And how do you think he would like these needs met?

For you, yours are probably affection and conversation. Are these your needs? How would you like your H to meet them?

Good post TJD! I would add that it is likely that admiration is another one of Dawn's top ENs...Dawn?

Mrs. W

You are right in saying that the main reason (I believe) that the A took place was because my H was out of town sometimes for 6 to 8 or 9 months at a time. I was at home alone (with 2 cats) 24/7 for months on end. So, I think this was the main factor.
I believe we are spending at least 15 hrs/wk even with his busy work schedule. But, probably not much more than that.

You are exactly correct on the needs. You ahve pin pointed his and my needs. I suspect he would like to have his sexual needs fulfilled daily and I lately have no interest in that. I'm not sure what to do about that. I think I'm doing okay on the others though.
In our whole time of 10 years together, my H has never once told me things like, I look nice or has never really given me any compliments much.
The OM would tell me that all the time and he noticed every little thing that would be new or different. He told me constantly how much he loved me and loved being with me and would just always be doing some little thing to make me feel good or special. For example, one day I was going to work and it was pouring down rain. I had left my umbrella in the office from the previous day so, he didn't want me to get drenched. He came to my office parking lot and with his umbrella walked me to the door just so I wouldn't get wet. He was always thinking of things like that. So, that was what I meant by caring. Many other examples but I'll spare you that. He was just a Southern gentleman all of the time--opening doors and just very courteout and polite. He just constantly told me how much he loved me and wanted to spend the rest of our lives together.
Boundaries--I guess I had no boundaries with OM. I pretty much would have done anything he wanted or asked of me. And, I guess the deep seeded feelings that I had had for him for all the years were still there.
Now, my boundaries are pretty much I have NO contact with any males--other than family members. I have to remember that I have made a committment to my H and that I am going to keep them. Can you elaborate more about boundaries? Or, direct me on reading about that in more detail?

No, the REASON the affair took place is because you failed to protect your weaknesses...Sloppy Boundaries...REALLY...

Okay...this is where many WSs get confused...Myself included...I spent MONTHS spinning my wheels over this, until I finally got the proper explanation that made total sense to me...

Here it is...Though unmet emotional needs cause VULNERABILITY to affairs, it is the shoddy boundaries of the WS that are RESPONSIBLE for the affair...

So your husband being out of town was DEFINITELY bad for your marriage and created vulnerability, but if that was the CAUSE of the affair, he would have had one too, right? See? Does that make sense to you?

It is crucial that you understand this Dawn, so if you do not, PLEASE, ask questions...

Mrs. W

P.S. It also matters what the two of you are doing in that 15 hours per week...It doesn't count if that time is also spent with children for instance...It must be undivided attention spent doing the four things I mentioned earlier...affection, intimate conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment...Make sure you guys are getting that in...VERY IMPORTANT...

Boundaries by Cloud & Townsend...There is also a workbook...

Mrs. W

I'm gonna try something with you here Dawn...Imagine that your husband were to say this...

"I suspect Dawn would like to have her need for financial support fulfilled daily, and I lately have no interest in that. I'm not sure what to do about that."

Hmmm, what would you tell him if he just decided not to go to work and provide for the family? Would that be okay? I strongly suspect that it would not be. Especially right about the time that the electricity got turned off and you guys had no food to eat.

For me, when I started to view Sexual Fulfillment as JUST AS LEGITIMATE as any other need my attitude changed. Also when I FINALLY understood that Mr. W wasn't kidding when he told me that sex is HOW he connects with me...See, I didn't believe that for years...Instead I thought it was just a matter of "getting off"...I didn't realize that there is an emotional part of it for men as well...And there IS...

And I do understand that right now, when you are likely still in withdrawal it isn't gonna be all that earth shattering for you...BUT, it IS something where you must do a bit of "faking it til ya make it"...And as I've told you in other posts, and I will KEEP telling you...FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...

So get on it girl!

Have you ordered the His Needs, Her Needs CDs yet?

Mrs. W

Mrs. W

Thank you for the wonderful words of advice and the wisdom that you've accumulated on this subject. Everything you've said makes so much sense. You are awesome!!

I have ordered the book.

You are very welcome Dawn...I don't know about "awesome"! That "wisdom" was hard won after I failed miserably at my own marriage as you know...I feel like I've grown up more in the last 3.5 years than in all of my years combined...It wasn't easy, but it was most definitely worth it - you'll see!

I'm so glad you ordered the book...

Something that I wanted to ask about is your husband's job...For some reason I just assumed that he has a new one now that you've moved, but I could be wrong about that...Does he? That whole deal about traveling and being away from you for 6 to 9 months out of the year freaks me right out...That is NOT any way for a marriage to be...It MUST change, if it has not...

AND...How is your husband doing right now Dawn? What is it like for him? Is he suffering from PTSD at all? How is he interacting with you? Is there no way at all that he would come here? This place could really be a Godsend for the both of you, and I'd love to see him show up...

Mrs. W

Also, I'd still like to see you posting on GQII (General Questions II)...Offering any insight that you can to the hurting BSs there...At the very least, reading the stories...It will help you to read their heartbreaking stories by giving you a glimpse into what your husband has gone through...It will up your empathy quotient for sure...And as I told you before, helping others is a GREAT way for you to heal...and to give back...It will make you all the more grateful for the grace that has been extended to you by your husband...All things so very important in this process...A humble heart is what it takes to make it through recovery...Being there will help you with that...

Mrs. W

P.S. Some of the stuff that you read there will be hard to hear, but it is important, imo...

I know that your knowledge was "hard won" as you say -- dealing with your own experiences but you seem like you have learned so much and have alot of insight. I am sure that I will get to that point someday...
No, my BS does not have a new job. Same one but instead of him leaving me at home alone for the 6 - 9 months he brought me with him. Remember that awful bottomless pit place that he made me move to? It really blows here but...it was what had to be done. Now I am residing with him and he does come home to this house everyday after work.
He seems to be doing fairly well right now. He doesn't show any signs that I can tell of PTSD. We interact pretty well in my opinion. He does bring the OM's name up every once in a blue moon but doesn't elaborate on it/him. We seem to be getting along pretty good for the circumstances.
I don't know if he would come to the site or not. I'm sure it would help him. And, I will take your suggestion and visit the GQ section. Thanks again so much.