My attorney called this morning to tell me that he is going to have a conference call with WW's attorney while WW is in office with her attorney.

The attorney's are going to try to get some temporary visitation set up with me and my son: two nights per week and every other weekend......

I told my attorney about my concern that if I agree to this temporary visitation agreement that it could set a precedence and become the permanent agreement.

He told me that there is some truth to that but if I don't at least agree to some visitation with my son, that I will look like I don't want to see my son. He said that I need to take what I can get for the moment.

I told him my strategy of sticking to my guns for the visitation that I want and he said that if I have an all or nothing mentality, the judge will see me as unreasonable and make me look bad because I wouldn't even agree to see my son on a temporary basis!!!

I asked him why my wife gets to hold all the cards and dictate how much time I get and he said that I just don't have any good alternatives since she has my son.

He said the only other thing I could do is do what she did with the police and that would make me look bad. WHAT ABOUT HER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? SHE ALREADY DID THIS TO ME!!

His words are just oozing with mother entitlement. I feel like I'm the hopeless victim who has to settle for whatever crumbs the ALL-POWERFUL MOTHER will deem fit to bestow upon me.

Rubbish. TELL your lawyer to push for 50/50. IMO no judge is going to think that you're being "unreasonable" if you fight for 50/50 visitation. Tell your lawyer that you need to approach this from the standpoint that it is your WW's choice to NOT agree to 50/50 that should be considered as unreasonable behaviour.

I agree with MiM. Here is the situation...

Your wife tells the judge that she took the boy because she was afraid you would not let her see him. You have documented evidence (your journal, her coming over to put him to bed, etc) that it isnt true.

Your wife then tells the judge that she agreed to this limited visitation. The thing your attorney should ask at that point is "why were you no longer worried?" She will then say something like that she felt once the lawyers devised the plan, that you would live up to it.

The problem then is if you fight for 50-50, and she is unreasonable by pushing for this plan, then the judge will want to know "why?". She cant say because she was scared you would take your son, because she was giving you limited visitation. She will appear to be the unreasonable one.

When my wife moved out, I immediately on my own, set up visitation for her. I made sure that I would have them for 4 days, then she would have them for 4 days. In that way, the days of the week we would have them would rotate. Now, I didnt accept that when we went to court (I got most of the time), but my making it fair (50-50) and enforcing that made myself look reasonable...while my wife pushed for limited visitation for me, which was unreasonable.

Guess who won?

Why isn't he filing an emergency temporary custody request with the court???

The court considers two nights per week and every other weekend as 50/50. They don't count the day time because the child will be in school during those hours and no parent will get to see them during those times.

If you look at it that way, it really does add up to 50% because weekends are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, leaving only four week days to split.

He already filed this. But it takes several weeks to get a court date.. Doesn't really fit the term "emergency" does it...

Tell him you want rotating three/four days.

Tell him ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Look, many lawyers will try to get you to settle. The fathers who win are the ones who say, "To he77 with that offer!"

Do you have any idea how many bad offers I turned down?

Tell your lawyer that you will not settle for anything less than 50/50. And it only counts if your son gets to stay the night. They otherwise don't count the day.

So don't settle and it is a bunch of bull if they tell you that a judge will see you as unreasonable.

It's unreasonable for you to not see your son 50/50 and that she is the one who left and is now on her 3rd divorce. So where is the stability for the children if she's allowed to change husbands as she changes sweaters.

You will absolutely not settle. Don't settle. I never settled for these half a$$ed offers I got and I took my chances with a judge and won shared physical custody of my kids.

Don't let them bully you into settlement. That's how men get hosed in court.

They get bullied into deals.

You tell your lawyer that he is to advocate for your rights as a father but that you will not settle in any way for anything less than 50/50. You have the stomach for a full blown legal fight for custody and want a lawyer who will be at your side for it.

DO NOT accept a half a$$ed arrangement.

SHE left.

SHE committed adultery.

SHE is the one who is now destroying her 3rd marriage.

You hold the cards here and can have a witness about her bringing the cops over and using the kids and taking your son.

Thanks Pom. So would you say that two overnights during the week and every other weekend would be 50/50?

I think she is offering this except without me having overnights during the two weekday visits. I will put my foot down to have the overnights for the two week day visits.

What???? Last I checked, (and my math may be fuzzy) that means you get them 12 days out of thirty. That means she gets them 18.

That aint 50-50!

MM,

It really is 50/50. It's five days with him and 5 days with her every single week.

For example (and this is the plan I advocate): Monday and Tuesday with erichh. Wed and Thurs with her. Alternate weekends and you have a 5 days on 5 days off plan where the days of the week are constant.

So it is 50/50.

Oh, if it is that way...then I guess that would be okay.

But, I still believe that I would be going for full custody, since she has shown herself to be an unfit parent.

But that's me.

I got out my calendar to check to make sure that two weekday evenings and every other weekend (Friday evening through Sunday night or Monday morning) and it actually does come out to be 50/50 if I figured it correctly. I had to calculate it for a few different months to make sure that it averaged out correctly...

But I know that my wife doesn't want to give me the overnights during the week. She came up with the excuse that the children need to leave the same house for school everyday... Something to do with stability. I don't know about that. But for this temporary thing, she shouldn't care if I have him over night during the week since he is not in school...

If she wanted stability she wouldn't destroy the family. I got the same crap excuse.

Don't go for it.

Go for full custody on the grounds that she's unfit as a mother. That is a fact.

Men who win are the ones who fight not the ones who get bully. Settle for 50/50 with weekday overnights while you fight for FULL custody. She's unfit and you can prove it. What state are you in?

If you're in a fault state, then do what MM did and get evidence she's having an affair.

erichh, DO NOT BACK DOWN!

The answer to her "concern" is "who cares what she thinks is more stable for the kids. SHE is unstable for the kids. 3 kids from 3 different husbands says it all."

What have you done to report her to the section 8 housing as not being qualified?

I'll send you a file via email soon.

I've decided that I will not settle for less than two weekday overnights and every other weekend (Friday afternoon through Monday morning). That is as 50/50 as I can get since I work during the day time...



I tried this. It's not section 8 housing. It's a wierd government subsidized apartment complex. They only count her income to qualify since I don't live with her. So far, I haven't found a way to interfere with her living off our tax dollars..

I'm with demanding 50-50...I'd also ask for the agreement to begin immediately with you picking up your son tonight (or tomorrow), spending the rest of this week with him (since she's kept him from you for over two weeks already) and this weekend is your FIRST weekend. To appear reasonable, negotiate down tonight and wednesday night...plus Fri, Sat & Sun so she can see him Thursday night.

She HAS to agree or continue alienating you. You've got HER over the barrel...not the other way around. The actual best case scenario is you negotiate reasonably without being hostile and she rejects it and keeps alienating you. The temporary custody hearing should be a hoot in such event.

Let her hang herself further if you must but stick to your guns. SHE and her attorney DO NOT call the shots and if you let them...they will call it the entire case.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - also ask your attorney to be thorough with the times and dates such that it's a firm agreement that won't require much adjusting or communication. Who drives where and who drops off where and when is important too. Finally...stipulate that neither party may have any unrelated opposite sex overnight visitors. If you've got any vacations planned...put that in too.

Attorney called. He said that WW will agree to Tuesday and Thursday evenings and every other weekend. Duh, that's what she told me to start with.

He told me that if I called my wife tonight at 6pm and asked to have son tonight that she may let me have him tonight if I agree to bring him back before bed time.

I told him that I wanted Tuesday and Thursay overnights and he said that he wouldn't be able to get in touch with the other attorney quickly enough for tonight but that he would ask for that.

They want to get this agreement in writing and my attorney said that he will stipulate in the agreement that this is not what we want but agree to it until the hearing...

I felt like I had no choice about tonight. Either agree to no overnight for tonight and get to see him, or not agree and not see him.

I agreed to try to see him tonight and have my attorney call her attorney to add the overnights. I won't sign the agreement if it doesn't include the overnights....

But I'm a little confused whether I should have agreed about seeing my son tonight without the overnight. But it's only for tonight. How could I say "no I don't want to see my son tonight?"

I called WW tonight as my attorney advised and she didn't answer the phone. I had the feeling that she wouldn't let me see my son until there is a written agreement.

My attorney seems so sure that agreeing to her terms on a temporary basis is the right thing to do until we have the temporary custody hearing in a couple of weeks. He said that if I have an all or nothing mentality about this temporary agreement it won't look reasonable to the judge.

I've been thinking, if I sign a temporary agreement now, wouldn't a judge take into account the circumstances under which would be signing this? Kind of like signing under duress? What father wouldn't take what he could get while his son was being held hostage, until a judge could make a determination.

It's not like I would be rolling over and agreeing to it because I think the terms are good, but it would be showing that I am acting out of the best interests of my son to at least get some immediate time with him, under my WW's intimidating conditions.

I just don't know. I know that every case is unique. I'm still mulling over all of this.

POM, when you turned down temporary visitation agreements, did your WW have physical custody of your kids and was not willing to let you see them at all until you signed something?

Anyone else been in a similar sitch as mine when a temporary custody agreement was shoved under their noses while you kid was gone and you knew you couldn't see them at all unless you signed?

In my mind, it just seems like this is still going to make my wife look like a [censored]...even if I agree to whatever terms I can get immediately...

Just thoughts, I haven't signed my life away yet..

Oh, and my wife was going to let me have my son two weekends in a row to start out to make up for not seeing him for two weeks...

Isn't that sweet of her!

It wouldn't have anything to do w/ getting your weekends to match up w/ the other father's weekends would it?

You nailed it.