Tell him "I AM looking out for number one...That would be YOU..."


But that isn't the case at all. Even for Christians there are consequences for sin. The only consequence we are no longer accountable to is the final one which everyone is destined for.

It's such a hard thing to imagine that no one can be good enough to stand before God and yet all we have to do is stop trying to do it based on our own self worth and ask him to save us from ourselves and accept the payment and consequences He already paid on our debt.

David cried out to God in Psalm 53 for mercy and God forgave him. Yet David lost his place as moral leader of his family and his nation. His children no longer looked up to him or respected him and a good part of the nation considered him to be no longer worth following. His child with his affair partner died soon after birth, his other children raped and murdered each other and one led a rebellion that became a civil war.

The consequences for David's sin reached generations down the road...

But David was forgiven.

Under God's law, the punishment for David's and Bathsheba's sin would have been their execution. It was what the LAW demanded.

But that is what the punishment for ALL sin is.

The Message translation lumps verse 22 and 23 together like this;

So sin is nothing more than working for yourself. It is counting your own worth as worthy and your own efforts as sufficient. Being a Christian means that you are no longer working for yourself since you understand that nothing you can do is of real eternal value before God. It is no longer working in order to be accepted and loved by God but BECAUSE we are accepted by Him BECAUSE we are loved by Him.

L4, your husband is angry and rightly so. His anger is because he has been hurt. He remains angry because he is afraid. Anger follows other emotions. It comes as the result of other emotions. We get angry when we have been hurt or are afraid.

So what is he afraid of?

Could he be afraid that there is more he still hasn't heard and fears that if there is he might think it is too much and want out?

Could he be afraid that you might be able to "do this again" to him?

Could he be afraid that other people might think him less of a man because he is still with you?

Be sure you have withheld NOTHING from him. Only RADICAL HONESTY will suffice from now on.

Show him by your actions that you have learned how to not do the same thing again...not merely resisting it harder but know what to do that will make it not happen again...that extraordinary precautions will be a way of life so that you will always place his feelings ahead of your own selfishness.

Show him how proud you are of him and how strong you believe him to be...and how grateful you are to still have him in your life. Don't tell him; show him.

Now for this:
This can be changed, L4. Become each other's recreational companion. He sees you having fun with your sisters and friends as a problem because RC is high on his list of ENs and means much to him.

The problem is that what you consider fun and what he thinks fun is all about are probably two different things. So figure out where the common ground is and begin doing those things together. The REI questionnaire can help with this and filling it out together can lead to some laughs as well.

Find those things that you have in common and build on those things. Encourage what is already there.

It never ceases to amaze me when folks are talking divorce and say that they have nothing in common. Beyond the obvious commonality of being married for X years there must have been something else there in the beginning. If there was no common ground at first the marriage would not have happened. SOMETHING was there and still is. We just need to look for THAT so we can have it again instead of looking at all the stuff we think we don't have and feel like looking for elsewhere.

It isn't a matter of focusing on the positives and ignoring the negatives but looking for the positives and dealing with the negatives.

And that's all I got to say about that...

I haven't talked to H since the IM conversation. You and JL are right in that I need to ask him directly if he has fears and I need to believe what he says, not interpret what he says.

I did really want it because I'd be very good at it and I'm pretty sure if I applied, I'd get it. I have a great repoire with the VP of the company. It's a nationally reputable company that would look great on a resume and it'd be twice the money I'm making now (though half of what I was making last summer). After talking with two people who know the industry well, we all believe growth opportunity with the position is not great. There would be little room to move up within the company and I'd be doing pretty much the same thing I had been doing the last 5 years. There would be little-to-no challenge for me and therefore would career-wise be a lateral move, perhaps even a step down. So the job in the short-term would get me doing something again and would bring more money, but the long-term career benefits may not be best. And of course I want to do nothing that might make H uncomfortable.

I am and I will. I need to repeat this over and over until he believes.

I'm trying. I certainly tell him often now and need to be better at showing him.

We've been good at this over the years, -- liking the same things such as live music, sports, camping, travel, skiing, enjoying a good margarita... We need to get back on track with it.

Amen.

L4,

Well Mark answered many of your questions as I would. There are a few things I thought I would throw in for your consideration.

When discussing "fears" which is one of the drivers of anger, I would caution you to realize that US GUYS FEAR NOTHING. So choose your words carefully. I might suggest using such words as "what challenges you when you consider us getting fully back together and happy?" or "what roadblocks do you see or feel we have to overcome"

Note that "roadblocks" and "we" means you are lifting pressure from him to admit HIS fears. Thus making it easier for him to discuss things. "Challenges" is clearly another euphemism for "fear". Do you see what I am driving at? However, I do think that the concept of "going for it" in a discussion about his reticence is a good thing to do. Another word might be "concerns".

I will repeat what has already been said. "forgiveness" does not mean "no consequences". But, it does mean that once consequences have been realized it is time to set aside the need for inflicting anymore.

You also said Something happened do you know what? Perhaps they became too close of friends and both backed off because of it. But, it could also be that times change and so do people.


I am sure that past history is weighing on him now. He knows you chose family over him, and yet you should have been "One" with him and only him. I am sure there is resentment about this even today.

However, have you ever thought of this differently. Rather than be in the middle, choose your H's side. By this I mean make sure that BOTH of you entertain your family and to do this discuss with him ahead of time a plan for him to participate, for him to have a say in what goes on and for how long. Even for him to be able to gracefully bow out if he feels the need. Leave no detail undiscussed, but make a plan for the visit and incorporate yours and his desires into it. Make it a win-win for him. Oddly, YOUR enjoyment of their visits will actually increase if he is really happy with them as well. I will tell you one thing that will really help him. In their presence be in your H's presense all of the time. Take his hand, hug him, kiss him, hold him whenever you can. It may sound mushy, but while you are laughing and joking and enjoying your sisters you can be enjoying your H as well. This may take some creative thinking and a lot of negotiation, I highly recommend that you do it.


First, there is a saying that the sports announcer John Madden uses that I really love. I am thinking that your H may feel that he failed again with regard to your son's condition, but the reality is you don't know what his condition is. Further, you don't know the sort of assistance your son will need, therefore you don't know what help your family can provide to you and your H/family. Until you know his actual condition, his needs, and where family can help, I would recommend you do as your H has requested.

He is there to support you, you are there to support him, that is what a married couple does. It is a scared trust between H and W, and really you are saying your H cannot do the job of supporting you, when in fact you don't know what support you will actually need. He is telling you he will be there, I recommend you allow your H to provide you the emotional support you need. He needs to be needed, not just part of the conversation with your family and you and I know that is what will happen.

Finally, men and women go about problem solving differently. Men general like to "think about things", collect data, decide on a course of action and THEN ask for help if they feel they cannot handle it. Women like to talk about things, the very act of talking seems to help them come to grips with a problem and they seem to like a group approach whether or not it is needed. As a guy I have a hard time sometimes understanding women's need to discuss things to a pulp, but I have learned that it is a need women have.

I hope something I have said is of help.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you for pointing this out.

My younger sister is gay so no, nothing inappropriate in that way. H and I had moved to another state (my H had never lived further than 30 miles from his family) and my sis came to stay with us after a really bad breakup of her first relationship -- her first after coming out. It was a combination of many things -- my H had no friends, new town, H was working graveyard shift at a job he hated, sis was ultra depressed and hung around our apartment a lot, my new job required many hours of time... Just a LOT of negative energy in a small place. H wanted space. Sis wanted support. I was Switzerland and wanted both to be happy and just get along.

Yep.

We're pretty good with this when we go elsewhere. Need to try this when in our own home. When we do have a plan, my H has been known to change the plan at the last minute or during the event.

Something we both stopped doing in recent years. Over the holidays, I was highly conscious of checking in with him, smiling at him, and touching him regardless of who was watching. He responded favorably.

I like this.

Yes it will. It's hard think of him needing to be needed. I want to be a source of comfort if at all possible. I have felt that showing neediness shows weakness, and I have this thing about being the strong, dependable, and fun one -- the one others can come to for help. This needs to change in me and with my H -- I need to allow myself to lean on others. H is really shining through when I've leaned on him these past months.

Good learnin', JL.

Always is.

L4,

You said
I looked at this response and thought "I really blew it here, she doesn't get it, and I should have explained this much earlier in our conversations."

L4, what did your affairs tell your H? I mean think about it.

What does your "independence" from him tell your H?

What does your last sentence of this quote tell you?

You have confirmed by your actions that he is NOT NEEDED.
You have confirmed by your independence that he is NOT NEEDED.
You have confirmed by your actions the last few months that HE NEEDS TO BE NEEDED.

A man that isn't needed is a man without a purpose in a relationship or anything else. All he is then is a paycheck, if that.

If you want this marriage to continue and for it to be something you both enjoy, YOU have to decide if you actually do need him in your life and why. He doesn't know that you do. He knows you have chosen others over him. He knows you have lied to him to protect yourself, not him.

So I ask you, were exactly does he place his feet to stand on firm ground??

My guess L4 is that your H is a man that needs to be needed and a man that wants an important role in your life. At this point he doesn't see one, do you???

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Great post. That's actually a great indicator of what might be wrong in my own M, as my FWW doesn't seem to need me around much and I have felt like a "paycheck" at times. Oh, and "the person to go to if I need heavy objects or dead things moved".

L4, listen to the man - he's onto something.

Quote... "Great post. That's actually a great indicator of what might be wrong in my own M, as my FWW doesn't seem to need me around much and I have felt like a "paycheck" at times. Oh, and "the person to go to if I need heavy objects or dead things moved". "



I just asked H to bury a dead animal.

I check on here often and the input I've been getting from everyone more recenlty has been so deep and heartfelt. Stuff that really forces me to think. (We're into the heavy stuff now, huh.) I often can't respond right away but have to step back, re-read a few times, maybe walk away, absorb, then try to comment. It's no longer general advice and comments. I can see where some of this is very personal for some of you. Thank you for going there with me.

JL and MIM... I do get it. (I think?) I'm just still working on doing it. What I meant by "this needs to change in me and with my H" is that I need to stop being the I-can-take-on-anything-at-any-time-for-anyone person and let my H help me with some of my burdens. Even help with all of my burdens. At least be aware of them. This is a change for me. I like to be the happy one, the aren't-I-fun-to-be-around one who doesn't shy from confrontation and can go to battle for anyone, but who won't share her own problems because that can be a downer, and who wants to be with a Downer? I know this contributed to me getting close with the FOM and helped guide me toward my A.

But I'm trying to change. I've broken down in front of my H and he has willingly held me, comforted me. I've shared with him my worries, my fears, my pain, my anger, and my shame. I've asked his opinions on many things from what to have for dinner to my job prospects. I've sought his help in decorating the house and doing mundane house chores. In every case (except the job), he's participated and come through for me in glowing fashion. So I know this to be true -- that he needs to be needed. It's a matter of me letting down all my guards, all of my walls, and letting him know that I need him. Over the years, I built the walls so high, not trusting him, not believing his intentions, being scared of his responses. The wall is down, but not yet rubble. I hear you saying I need to do that -- blow up the wall, grab H's hand, and let him help me. Let me need him.

I am trying.

And BarbieCat... Among the many things H's can help with, I'll be the first to admit I'll ask mine to burying things too. They are good at that.

L4,

My response to your last post is...good.

I would like to make a suggestion. You said
It is good for you to ask his help. But, consider looking at it from this point of view, which I admit is decidely a male sort of view. What he wants is you to be his TEAM MATE. He wants you to ask him for help, or discussion, or input, but he also wants you to be there for him as well.

Addressing problems is not necessarily a downer as you have found out via the OM. You discussing your problems brought you closer to OM, and it can and will bring you closer to your H. BUT, remember you two are team, sometimes he will need your strength and encouragement, sometimes you will need his. You don't need to hide from your H and that is what you were doing being the "aren't I the fun one to be around".

So as you contemplate why you really need your H in your life, remember he wants a teammate/partner a woman he is "one" with. Don't you need that in your life? I think you might, at the very least he can help you enforce your boundaries and your promises.

L4 you have come a long way since you started to post here. I think I sense from your posts that your H is processing all of this painful information and I am sure insights into his own failures. I also sense that he is beginning to see that just maybe you still are the woman for him. It is a process L4, but I think you are making progress.

God Bless,

JL

Things are good overall. I need to ramble. Nothing poignant. You may want to get a fresh cup of coffee...

My H is being good to me and our kids. He is much calmer, nicer, and more involved with the family than he was a year ago. The sweetest example... Two weekends ago he told our 5-year-old daughter he wanted to take her out. You have to understand, my H does most outings with our son. DD loves him so much, but they don't spend any recreational time with each other and I know this bothers her. (She stated, "This is the first time Daddy and I get to do something!") DD is frilly and H doesn't know what to do with that. DD put on her prettiest outfit. She was beautiful. So H dressed up too. They went shopping then went for hamburgers -- gone for three hours. DD was thrilled when she came home. It brought tears to my eyes. H said everywhere they went, people (mostly women) commented on how pretty DD was. Of course women would! They see a very attractive, apparently financially successful man out having fun with his beautiful young daughter and the man isn't wearing a wedding ring. (H hasn't worn it since my confession.) I'm sure some were looking for a reason to approach H. But that's not the reason I'm telling this story. H and DD had a great afternoon and it touched me.

We went a few days last week without mentioning my betrayal or our R. Life was happening under exceptional circumstances since my confession with the holidays, me not working, several snow days for school, H's dad going through his third separation... Now kids are back in school, I'm working during the day (from home), step-mom is moved out... Daily functions are normal. I'm paying attention to how H and I work now that routines are back and I'm keenly aware of filling his love bank. We're doing well so I'm not complaining. Just wondering... Let me bring up a few stumbling points to see if they resonate in any way with you.

Saturday night, we had an adult evening and had a lot of fun. We went to bed and while H was holding me, he started whispering in my ear: "Why did you throw us away?" "You were my best friend." "I don't know you anymore." "I can't be with a liar." I asked... "Do you still doubt my intentions? Are you leaving me?" He responded, "I don't know. I can't stay, but I can't go." He continued making comments -- not questions, just comments. I couldn't do anything but whimper. I eventually had to roll away from him. He asked why I had nothing to say. I said I had no reply. He's heard that I am committed to him. I'm so sorry. I wish I could change the past but I can't. I want to rebuild and move forward with him. I asked how he wants me to respond when he's telling me how I've ruined us. I mean, I know I did this but I also can't change what happened. He said, "I don't know." I asked, "Who am I to you now, H. Who am I?" He didn't hesitate. He responded, "A cheater." I asked if that is really all he sees. He said, "Well, you are." I said, "I was. I WAS a cheater. I am not and haven't been for many months. I am honest. You know what I've done, where I go, what I think, what I want... And I can't believe that's all you see. I am a woman, your wife, a mother, a hard-worker, your lover, a kind person, a sister, someone who likes music, someone who loves you... And the first thing you think when you think of me is 'cheater'?" I was so hurt. He said, "It's what was on my mind at the time." I was quiet. A few minutes passed and he asked if I wanted a hug. I rolled into him and he held me with tears falling down my cheeks as we both fell asleep.

This isn't the first time this has come up recently. Christmas day and the day after, several times when talking to me, H referred to me as "my cheating wife". While at a nice dinner -- our second date since D-day, he called me that again. I had to leave the table and go cry in the bathroom of this nice restaurant. I came back and asked that he not refer to me as that. He said, "Why not? You are." He said it one more time and I asked the waitress for the check. He pulled out the cash we had received from his dad for Christmas to pay and handed me some saying, "Here's your half of Dad's present." I was insulted that he thought I'd be that selfish. I threw the money on the table in his direction and said I'd meet him outside. On the way home he said to never treat him like that in public and don't ever throw money at him. I said, "You are right. That was rude and I'm sorry." I didn't say "but" or anything more. I was genuinely apologetic about my stupid, juvenile behavior. When we got home, in the car I asked if he sees me only as a cheater. He said, "Well, you are." I said, "Seven times these last two days, that's how you've referred to me." He said, "It's accurate." I said, "It was in the past. It's a reminder of what I did. I am not that person and to me it's demeaning. Why must you put an adjective in there at all? Why not just 'wife'? If you must add a describer, why not pretty or sexy or nice or trying or remorseful or fun? Or another label all-together like L4 or mother or woman?" He didn't seem to appreciate what I was saying. So the fact that this whole thing came up again a few nights ago, hurts again. It's been over 12 weeks and I know this takes time. We're in early stages. But if he can't even get over labeling me even though he admits I've changed and he likes what he sees...

I continue to walk the path of honesty, faith, trust, productivity, and love, showing H I need him and I want him. I choose him. Hopefully someday H will believe this to be real and truly see who I am beyond “the cheater”.

I got an email last night from my sister saying that her H is now agreeing to a divorce (a verbally abusive marriage), and her H wants to move to Mexico. I told my H about it because I couldn't believe anyone would want to remove themself so clearly from a life with their kids. H used this opportunity to bring up my mistakes. He became more and more ruthless. It turned into yelling at me and name calling -- an AO with no direction and it didn't matter what I said. I asked him to please leave my small office several times, that I was getting upset. H wouldn't. I was crying with my back to him as he continued the belittlement and I ended up yelling "GET OUT OF HERE!" He finally did.

An hour later I went to tell him good night. He asked me to sit with him. I said that I couldn't. I was still upset. He apologized, said he shouldn't have changed the topic from my sister to us when he saw I was looking for support. I thanked him for his apology and told him he can't do that -- he can't yell at me on several topics and not let me respond for myself. He KNOWS this is a huge LB for me. Anyway... We made up. But it's these moments that resemble our past that still eat at me. He won't do MB, he won't do MC, he's been to an IC once, and again, while he and we are doing better, there are specific behaviors that I think he/we need professional help with and he won't seek them. I want to stay married to H. While we are getting along much better, issues remain. I feel like we're avoiding them. We can't avoid them if we're going to make it, yet I'm in no position to impose any kind of conditions for staying together. I can't be a taker right now, as H's lovebank still needs filling. But there is going to be a point when I need to take. And while he's giving me more, it's not everything I need. I have ENs that remain untouched by him. Should I foget about it and be grateful that I have what I have after all I've put H through?

H has told me one, single time that he loves me since I confessed. And he was a little tipsy at the time after we had finished making love. Could have just been endorphins. It's hard to not hear it from him when we used to say it so openly to each other.

I know I'm lucky. I have it good compared to other infidels. H has every justification to leave me so the fact that he's still here is a blessing. Where I get selfishly and illogically jealous is when I read on MB about BHs who are fighting for their WWs -- rustyshackelford, mgolfer71, Mike_C2, DNU1, MunnyGuy, mrmagoo, chris31, LonelyHiker... People who are applying MB principals and working to save and improve their relationships. My H is here and maybe that needs to be good enough. It's hard when he dangles the D though. It puts fear into me. I don't know if he does this to control me or if he's only sharing with me what he's thinking -- practicing radical honesty. I am fortunate that we're together now. Perhaps being happy as well with full lovebanks and fighting battles together as one is asking too much.

((((L4))))

That sounds really hard.

I'm going to share my thoughts on your post in the hopes that some more experienced MB-ers (especially the FBHs out there) can either build on them, or refute them.

Triggers happen. Your husband (and you) will be triggered. And sometimes those triggers will result in AOs. I think that's what happened in your office. Of course, being a FBH who is triggered doesn't give someone free license to verbally abuse his/her spouse, but I'm willing to assume for now that this sort of thing will diminish in frequency and eventually disappear. If it doesn't, that's obviously something you'll need to address at some point. I can't tell you what that point is, but I hope someone else can.

But what really has my attention is the "cheating wife" comment, then defending himself by citing the technical accuracy of the term. From your post, it does not sound like the comments were made in response to some trigger. To me, they come off as passive aggressive digs with the explicit intention of hurting you. And here is what I'm concerned about: In order to have a successful, happy marriage, both partners must become specialists in meeting their spouses most important ENs and avoiding LBs. When I read your post, I worry that your husband is instead working on becoming a specialist in hurting you. That is, that he's learning over time (through trial and error) what he can say and do that will wound you most of all, then doing it.

If that's really what he's doing, then certainly no good can come of it. But I don't have any suggestions for addressing the behavior while still demonstrating to him that you are fully committed to him and to the marriage.

"I get selfishly and illogically jealous is when I read on MB about BHs who are fighting for their WWs"

Why?

Their WW's are looking to leave. Your not. Those BH's are jealous of you.

Affairs take two to five years to recover from D day. Your BH has not left or has he tried to get a lawyer to force you to leave. Those two things are in your favor. You can not rush recovery. Every one needs different time to recover. You can not speed him up.

I've seen a few BH's that only wanted to know the affair was over. They did not want to talk about the affair. Would not ask questions. Would stop their WW's from telling them what happened.

They just stuffed it. Just wanted to hear that their WW has ended the affair and was not leaving them.

What happened to these people? Don't know because the FWW's stopped posting here without any long term update.

You cannot compare your BH to the ones that you have mentioned. They are working to end their WW's affair. They are not were your BH is at.

Your BH is acting the way many BH's respond when their WW has confessed a past affair.

looking4, i see a lot of similarities between our stories. In our case, my wife betrayed me and the timing (the d-day) was about the same. I took the wedding ring off after my wife admitted (not confessed).

But i also see differences. In your case, you are making a genuine attempt to recommitt and in our case my wife was nt sure at all until she saw the hurt she caused me and how i had changed. She is recommitting (as if she is doing me a huge favor and that hurts me a lot).

I have asked my wife "what should i do now ?" Why i am I trying to keep the familiy together if she didnt care ?" Why i am i trying to woo someone who rejected me ?"

I have pretty much ditched all the LBs from my behavior. I dont know why your husband refers to you as "Cheating wife" but you have to understand, this whole betrayal to a husband - someone who thought all along that things are fine - are just too demeaning and disrespectful to the core. It is the lowest form of degradation (sorry dont mean to be so graphic).

I have the same frustration with no responses or minimal responses from my wife and it just kills me. Just talk about something. Talk about the affair or something. Just feeling remorseful is not good enough even though it is the first step.

In my case, i kept asking to myself "how could you do this to me, to our dear son ?". No it is not denial anymore but more a question that is not fully answered yet and for all you know it never will be.


I am so touched by reading this. Have you told your husband this ?


did you both fill out the questionairres ? I would print them off and sit your husband down and go over those. We did it. My wife is far from meeting any of those needs because she thinks she is unworthy, selfish and is incapable of providing any of those needs but in your case, you should just do it with no expectations from your husband. But do let him know what your needs are.



Will continue in a bit......

Yes i am one of those BH jealous of OPs husband to be precise. He is in a spot that i would love to be in. lol.

Your case is indeed little different because you CONFESSED an affair that is DEAD. Two big differences CONFESSED and DEAD. Lot of us had to force our beautiful (??) wives to end their ugly affair.

Give yourself some credit. You are lucky but also you had the courage to end the affair and then later confess. Not many BHs can say that about their wifes. I know it was a terrible choice on your part but you realised it.

It is strange but understandable that you find other BHs fighting for their wifes unconditionally. You can add me to that list.

On the dday my wife wanted out (0% marriage committtment) and me wanted in 100%...It was more out of fear loosing her to some stranger on my part....(which was not the case for you)...Your husband knew the affair ended and i doubt if he had any fear of loosing you.

fast forward several months....she wants to recommitt (30%) and i want in about 70%. Ideally it has to be 50-50. I dont know what the numbers are in your case but it appears that you want more than he does but then also realise that he is going a very difficult time in his life.

L4,

I think it is still pretty early for you BH to be over this. He has to deal with your entire marriage being a lie, or at the minimum tarnished by a serious lie. I think there is great risk that he will eventually just walk away and I can guess that is quiet statements are actually more frightening than the yelling. As long as he is hurting he still cares, and I am sure you know that. If you see him going down the road of indifference to you then I think you should be worried.

Maybe you could start getting counseling yourself and then he would start to join in?

Ideally it should be 100/100!

In order to have a great marriage you both have to want it 100%. Anything less is renting rather than buying.

Buyers say "Whatever it takes."

Renters say "Whatever I can take."

Freeloaders say "Whatever..."

But so soon after D-day it is not unusual for the BS to be ambivalent, even unsure of what they want in the long run.

Marriage is really hard to get right. It isn't supposed to be Give and Take, but Give and Give. Our taker gets fed by what our spouse GIVES to us. When it's unbalanced one takes and the other gives. Plan A is like this and can only go on for some short period of time because when our TAKER comes out it is a SUPER-TAKER and demands more than can be given.

Recovery is even harder and it takes 100% from both BS and WS in order to end up with what you want from the marriage.

But getting to 100% takes time and takes longer for some than others and any commitment is better than zero.

L4, I wish I could give you something to say or do that would suddenly turn things around, but I don't think there are any of those things. You need to find a way to tell him that when he calls you names it hurts you but have to do it so he can hear what you are saying and wants to change. You can't live like this forever.

But I am baffled as to how to express that to him so that he understands that hurting you will not make his pain go away only make you hurt as well. I personally think he needs someone to vent to, bounce things off of and help him deal with his feelings. Love Busting will not make him feel better and can only make you love him less while not making him love you more.

I'm at work, so I need to go. Maybe someone else has an idea I'm not thinking of right now.

Mark

Thank you, curious. My H is an expert at passive aggressive behavior. He perfected it and he became very good at knowing what hurts me and would use that. These along with other behaviors (his and mine) led to our marriage cracking and breaking well before my PA last spring. H is so much better now. So when these behaviors rear their heads, my red flag goes up because I can't go back there. What I find myself asking when he does belittle and hurt me with what I consider unfair words, is it a momentary slip by H? Or is it a sign of him going back to his controlling ways of before? I guess time will tell.

Thank you for responding, O1.

Do you wear it now? My H gave me his ring. I've been keeping it in my jewelry box and told him that's where it is. I've been contemplating giving it back to him and making its care his responsibility. Also hopefully making it more available and thus more tempting to return to his finger. I just know that his outing with our DD showed him that he can easily attract women should he ever decide to leave me. (Not that wedding rings completely deter people from making advances, as we all unfortunately know, but they help.)

I answer every question asked. It's not always the answer he wants, but I answer truthfully and fully. I too, am still processing what I've done so some questions remain for me as well. But I do not avoid the harsh truths. I won't judge what my H deserves to know and not know. If he wants to know, he's gonna know.

Yes.

The questionnaire has been sitting on my H's desk for probably 7 weeks now. He wants nothing to do with MB.

I have done it for myself.


This is hard. I feel I'm in no position at the moment to ask for anything from H. I am working on showing that I need H, as suggested by others on this thread. But telling him what I need as far as ENs? That seems selfish this early after D-day considering what he's going through.