I have worked in unemployment insurance in the US.

Here, employers need to document, document, document.

I would review their employee records to see if there is a signed document showing they received a copy of employer policies regarding relationships with other employees, computer/phone usage policies.

In regards to unemployment insurance claims adjudication, we would want to see documentation that the employer had provided policies, that employee had received policies, documentation that employee had been warned (if warnings were given), documentation of inappropriate computer/internet/phone/expense usage.

I had to approve claims for persons that I clearly believed should not have been paid UI benefits just because the employer did not provide any documentation of warnings. They provided no documentation of investigations.

I just got into work and this one has been on my mind all night and I have formed a plan of attack.

The first thing I did was call the company lawyer (also a close friend and confidant) and discussed the issue with him. Legally I cannot in anyway include her husband even if he comes to me and asks. All I can advise him is that I am investigating and if this has an effect on the company it will be dealt with accordingly. BH has a right to know so I am thinking anon tip as suggested by TheRoad to cover my own butt.

I agree with Mr W that firing them may continue the affair. So I will definately be dismissing her she is a manager and he is her subordinate, she should have known better and quite obviously her professional judgement is no longer sound and I do not want someone in a position of leadership working for me with these sort of morals. Also to be completely honest there needs to be consequences for her actions, she put her job on the line the moment she overstepped the mark be it EA or PA.

MLs comment when I read it this morning really struck a cord -

She is a loose cannon who can't be trusted and has abused her authority. That is why we fire people like that. They are a walking legal liability.

Not only that, but other employees would know about the affair [they always do!] so this manager cannot effectively manage people again.

I agree with this 100% and this is exactly what I think but as initially I was so emotional I was finding it difficult to vocalise it the right way without losing it. After some sleep and a glass of wine I have a clearer more focused head.

There will be consequences for him also. He will be suspended pending a full investigation (with pay as this is standard during an investigation) and if it does turn out there was favourtism and he benefited from this financially then he has been stealing and this would be grounds for summary dismissal for him also. I will put this on the table and hope it is enough to break him to come clean, he is only 20 so it should scare him enough that he makes the right choice. I am prepared to give this kid another go he is young, relatively bright and has made a HUGE mistake. I dont want to ruin his career forever and perhaps he can learn something from this??

First point of contact today is to arrange a meeting with the operations manager who she directly reports to and discuss how she views the situation.

Then I review all emails (once I have access) and gather any further evidence.

On Monday I will take all evidence to the CEO and Operations Manager upon CEO's return. Then I we will need to call her in from her leave and tell her what has been discovered and depending on how the CEO wants to proceed (in other dismissal cases he has just left me to do what needs to be done and stands behind me) then she will be dismissed.

I will arrange an appointment with him also on Monday and go through everything and suspend him for two weeks while we look further into the money side of the issue as I will need to get Finance involved at this point.

I agree also with believer that the email will be the 'tell'. My WH was so stupid with his email during his affair he even went as far as to call the folder where he saved the email from her 'DONT READ'..... now this is a normally responsible and intelligent human being who lost his mind while possessed by the excitement the skank offered. Of course I saw the folder 'DONT READ' and of course I read what was in there.

Reading the email is going to be tough for me as that was how I discovered my WH up to no good. I have no doubt there are going to be lots of triggers with this. But I believe this is all just another test of my character from God and he wouldnt hand this to me if he didnt think I was ready for it or I couldnt deal with it.

Anyone who is worried or scared to expose to their Spouses place of employment should not be as HR not only works for the company but for the employees and these sorts of situations can be damaging in more ways than just monetarily to the company. If it is not dealt with proactively then there will be consequences for these companies in the longterm regarding sexual harassment, funds misappropriation and just general office chaos caused by the gossip. So the BS can take some comfort from the knowledge that if it is dealt with immediately great if it is brushed under the rug the fallout may come later and it will most definately come and that may be in the form of the HR person who brushed it under the rug loses their job also.

All of your advice and support has been so fantastic.

I know now I am NOT over reacting and I taking the best course of action here.
I will keep the thread updated as to how it is all progressing.

lp77, I agree with most of your post except....

I will put this on the table and hope it is enough to break him to come clean, he is only 20 so it should scare him enough that he makes the right choice. I am prepared to give this kid another go he is young, relatively bright and has made a HUGE mistake. I dont want to ruin his career forever and perhaps he can learn something from this??

Why would you terminate the supervisor and not the employee? I know he is only 20 but this reverse discrimation. Takes 2 to have an A but he is 20 and a man. He had a choice and crossed the line with his boss. They BOTH knew it was wrong. You could open yourself up to sexual harrassment by firing the woman and not the man. He will get another job but he will also learn the consequences of his actions.

Bravo to you, peanut! You are a good guard for your company and for society.


Some man needs to take this young fool aside and tell him: "son, never get your honey in the same place you get your honey!"

I have a feeling that by sitting him down and discussing the notion that I am leaning towards a summary dismissal for this boy he will resign of his own accord...... from experience in other matters this is usually the case with younger employees when faced with a possible dismissal.

After re-reading what I wrote I realise I didnt get the desired outcome across. When I said I wanted to give him another go the idea I had in my head was scaring him into resigning. That way it wouldnt be on his record and he would learn something from his behaviour but at least he could get another job.

Dont get me wrong I am angry at BOTH of them. I am however much more annoyed at her. She is in a position of leadership and she abused that position of leadership for own personal gains.

LP, like you, I might be more inclined to give the kid a break since he a) is young and b) was in a subordinate position. The manager clearly abused her authority and misused her influence. My company routinely FIRES the manager but does not routinely fire the subordinate. I imagine it would be tough call.

I came up with an idea. If the company won't allow you to expose the affair maybe you can get OM to do it himself.

When you suspend the 20 year old kid you inform him that he's in a tough spot and that he's placed YOU in a tough position. Ask him if he would like some personal advice about what he COULD consider doing to improve his chance of retaining his job. Ask him if he would appreciate a list of things he could do to help you make your decision pending this investigation. Then SAY this (don't document it):

Mr. ____:

This is my personal opinion and not that of the company. You are under no compulsion or requirement that you do the following, I am merely attempting to indicate that this is what I'd do if I were in your position. Doing these things WOULD demonstrate to me personally a level of maturity consistent with a responsible adult that has made a tremendous mistake with their life. It WOULD demonstrate to me personally that you have an ability to learn from your mistakes and grow as a person and thus, as an employee of xyz company.

First...you must commit to "no contact" for life with the Mrs. _____. That means from THIS moment on...you will commit yourself to never contacting Mrs. ____ in any manner as she is a married woman and off-limits to you. No phone calls, letters, emails, etc. You don't need to discuss your job status or the events of today. If she calls...you don't answer. If you answer..you hang up. You block her email and close any online profile you have. Give her no opportunity to contact you. It's over...as of NOW. Can you do that???

Second...send a letter undeniably exposing your inappropriate adulterous relationship with Mrs. ____ to her husband, with your heartfelt apologies and commitment to never interfere with their marital relationship again. Can you do that???

Finally...here is my personal email. I am asking you to send me confirmation of the "no contact" and your apology exposure letter. In fact...you MAY choose to provide me with a copy of what you said. I am requesting you send this to my personal email as this is a personal request. This is NOT a requirement to keep your job. It MAY help. It may not. Just know that I personally would be impressed if you exhibited the level of maturity necessary to own up to your mistake and undertake, to the extent possible, righting your wrongs.

I expect to hear from you prior to our next meeting.




I better stop now as I'm guessing legal won't allow you to even say this much. The email request is likely over the top and too much confirmation of what you said. Plus...there really is no way to confirm it.

Guess you're stuck going the anonymous route.

Mr. Wondering

I just wanted to remind you that an anonymous email is not anonymous unless you send it from a public computer thats usage is not tracked. Don't let disclosing the affair come back to bite you.

Mr W I would love to put this out there but legal would have kittens.

I really think he will resign of his own accord. He came to us straight from University so he has never been in a sitch before that involves discipline especially not from executive management level. I do believe he will poo his pants and so he should!!!!!!!!! LMAO

No emails will be sent, I will send anon letter in the post with no return address.

Have someone else physically drop it in the mailbox as then you can legitimately say that you didn't mail it, if and when you are ever asked. I'd also take the precaution of driving out to a distant suburb and mailing from a post office far from where you live but where many other employees reside.

Mr. W

Following your advice Mr W thanks again

IMO, if your lawyer friend has advised to not include the H, then I suggest not doing it anonymously either.

Consider the possible negative consequences - for example, how would you respond if WW (with nefarious lawyer with $$$ signs in his eyes attached to her sleeve) approaches you and directly asks you if you sent that letter?

I think that when WW is fired, and OM is suspended / fired, the truth will come out, whether it be from WW, OM or someone else who's "in the know". An anonymous letter may not be necessary.

I agree with Maninmotion. If your legal dept told you to leave the BH out, you should.

I am actually surprised you are being advised to do it in a sneaky manner then lie by omission. If a wayward came in here and suggested you do it that way I don't think it would go over very well. Being sneaky and lying (even by omission) are wayward mentality, IMO. Don't sink to that level.

I'm sure we are all in agreement the BS should be told. If I were you I would not take matters in your own hands. She will have to explain why she was dismissed and my guess is it will have to come out.

Also, from a FWW POV it sure seems you want to bring down the consequences hard on her and let him off the hook a little easier. Sure he's young, but still. Make sure you are doing it for the right reasons, not because of what you would want to happen to the OW in your situation.

LC

I would NEVER place exposing an affair in that category. It is not even in the same universe. Exposing a crime to the victim is NOT an immoral act and most certainly not in the same category as lying and sneaking. Having an affair is sneaky and lying and WAYWARD, exposing the affair to its victims IS NOT.

In fact, it would be IMMORAL to not tell this BH he is being destroyed behind his back. This man could very well have been exposed to an STD and doesn't even know it. Just because it is anonymous does not mean it is a wayward act.

She may be hampered by legal issues related to work, but that does not absolve her of her moral obligation to warn this man he is being harmed behind his back.

ML,

So you are saying lying by omission is OK?

LC

I agree with Mel.

The attitude that "it's none of my business" or "someone else should do it" is ridiculous.

Peanut CAN and SHOULD see that this man is warned even if anonymously.

If only people "in the know". so called friends had told me.

"No emails will be sent, I will send anon letter in the post with no return address"

Anon letters have finger prints and DNA from the saliva when the envelop is sealed. Must wear gloves to handle paper and envelope, and use water.

I wanted to add one more thought

If she had not been advised not to do it I would agree she should go for it.

She is putting herself at risk by moving forward after being told not to do it.

LC

Are you saying it is ok to allow this man to be victimized by his wife's adulterous affair, and exposed to STDs, and not warn him?