I don't expect that he'll ever be over it. I'm hoping for eventual acceptance and willingness to move beyond the hurt being felt now to a fulfilling, honest, fun, safe, and loving relationship with me as one.

Yes.

I see flickers of indifference. I don't know if it's self-protection on his part, or real.

I have been seeing an IC since last April -- as my marriage was at its breaking point and my EA was heating up. I had been asking for MC with my H for almost three years. He finally agreed to MC late last August after I walked out one night. Once I confessed to him about my PA in late October, he refused to go to MC any more. He won't do any third-person conseling, believing his and our problems are his and ours. No one else needs to be involved. Though I have seen some chinks in this stance lately.

I haven't been to my own IC since mid-December. I need to go back.

Thanks for the bad news, Mark. I've been looking for that turn-it-around pill for months to only learn now that it doesn't exist? Sheesh!

And that way would be?...

Isn't this what I'm paying you and the other MB vets for? I guess I'm getting what I'm paying for.

And so do others. I think he knows this too. At my last IC session, my therapist said he sees three things happening now between H and me: 1.) I am trying to process my infidelity, 2.) H is trying to process it, and 3.) we are trying to determine if we can stay married. The therapist said I'm dealing with #1 with my IC, H and I are dealing with #3 together (though an MC or pastor certainly wouldn't hurt), but as for #2, H is trying to deal with this through me as his primary sounding board. This is not working. When I try to offer him advice as a friend, H thinks I'm being cold and don't care about the marriage. When I offer advice as his W, he thinks I'm trying to save my own interests and not his. The only thing I can do regarding #2 is listen with no motive. And how can I possibly do that when I'm at the heart of it all? I shared this perspective with H and he agreed with my IC. But he's done nothing about it.

This is so not what I want. I want to love him completely, not out of obligation or guilt. I love him today. And want to build on that.

Thanks for checking in and offering thoughts, Mark. You know I appreciate your insight.

Thank you. I need BH's perspective to keep me focused and on the right path -- not get discouraged if possible.

Does BH have a level-headed friend or family member he could talk to?

He has a couple of people he's confided in, and he's been out a few times with one of them, but my understanding is talk of the A and our relationship is kept to a minimum. It's mostly H getting out of the house for beers and male companionship. I know he's opened up to this one friend (who also knows me well) about the A, but it happens in fits and spurts.

H tells you this or the friend?

H and the friend. I keep encouraging H to talk with this friend -- they've been friends for nearly 30 years and friend and I have known each other almost as long. Friend has said that yes, they've talked and he's made clear to H that friend is there for H -- and I'm so glad he is. Friend usually asks questions and H answers a bit then might change the subject or lets it die.

I don't expect that he'll ever be over it. I'm hoping for eventual acceptance and willingness to move beyond the hurt being felt now to a fulfilling, honest, fun, safe, and loving relationship with me as one.


Looking4, My wife and I faced the very same thing and it took her asking herself if she really WANTED TO HEAR THE ANSWER from me because for a very long time SHE WAS STILL ANGRY and the LAST thing she wanted to do was TAKE CARE OF ME when she was still hurting....

If you really want to hear the answer from your husband ask him this:

WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM ME TO HEAL???

Whatever you do, DO NOT SUGGEST, ANSWER FOR HIM or do ANYTHING BUT LISTEN. If he does not answer WAIT FOR HIM! YOU ASK NOTHING ELSE! HE WILL ASK YOU TO CLARIFY, TO REPEAT THE QUESTION AND ANYTHING ELSE HE CAN THINK OF TO NOT TELL YOU...

THIS WILL BE TERRIBLY HARD FOR HIM TO DO BECAUSE HE WILL HAVE TO COME OUT OF WITHDRAWAL TO ANSWER AND THAT'S THE LAST THING HE WANTS TO DO....

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT...

BECAUSE BY DOING SO HE HAS TOLD YOU HOW HE CAN BE HEALED AND ALSO HURT AGAIN. YOU ARE ASKING HIM TO TRUST YOU AGAIN. YOU ARE ASKING HIM TO MAKE HIMSELF VULNERABLE TO YOU AND YOU ARE THE ONE THAT HURT HIM. HE WILL BE MAKING IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO HURT HIM AGAIN....

IF he trusts you and answers you have the answer to move forward WITH him. Because he has made a contract with you. He has told you what he needs to get past this.

If he doesn't tell you you let him know that you will KEEP asking him because you love him too much to not help him to heal from your mistakes.

My wife asked me this very question and gave me what I needed to heal which was ALL OF HER. In return I give her the love a (much wiser) husband would give a wife that had never had an affair.

God bless.

Jim

Got it. Wasn't sure if the friend had put it out there that H could talk to him like that or if it was some weird manly man remark lol. Be sure to thank the friend for being there for H.

As for H's hurtful comments...

Even after months have passed since D-day there's still that disbelief to the BS that the spouse did this to them as an individual, couple and family. Nothing can help that feeling but hopefully it will lessen over time. As for the "cheating wife" comment, H is angry. He probably wants to make sure you can't forget what you did since he can't. It's kind of warped but if he sees you having a good day and he's angry he might think you have forgotten the pain you caused him so he strikes back. It's kind of a catch 22...self-preservation and self-destruction all in one.

Agree with Jim Flint (again...I seem to be tailing you, BTW it took awhile to get to that point in my sig line but thanks for noting it)

Another thought of how to help your BH, not sure if this has been mentioned in previous posts.

Your H sounds very resentful, and justifiably so, but I wonder if he is not taking this so personal that he can't get past resentment. He is stuck in this mode and can't move ahead to the next step in the grieving process, which ever that one may be.

There are so many posts on here about why people cheat and they all make the WS 100% accountable. Could you print some off and leave them somewhere that he could read them in private, if he chooses of course. His car, his coat pocket, his home desk.
He just sounds like he feels like he is a failure and is taking it out on you and your attempt at recovery.

Just a thought.

PS I think your commitment to recovery is admirable.

A great question. I've asked it in other forms and always get "I don't know." I really do want to hear the answer so I'll continue asking until he can tell me.

Thanks, Jim.

My H can be very bitter, negative, and vengeful. Surprisingly, he has not responded like I expected. (Well, after the first week after D-day that is.) He's been very calm, comforting, intimate, and affectionate. We talk so much more, spend more time together... It's been unbelievable, frankly. Where I get jarred is when he has flashes of his old ways -- AOs, name-calling, passive aggressive moments... So the ugly behaviors are still in there and while I can see he's fighting them, I don't know if he'll be able to continue this path of change or if it's going to all blow up and return to days of old. I can't worry about it though and must live today for today. Your thoughts above have merit though. I wish I could help him and I'm trying. I think a third-party could help too.

He won't read any books or blogs or forums, he avoids MB (the EN questionnaire has been on his desk almost two months now), or seek counsel from anyone beyond one visit alone with our MC. (We haven't been to MC together since before my confession in October.) However, I did mark a chapter in a book called Getting Past The Affair by Snyder, Baucom, and Gordon that I found very helpful. The chapter called "How Could My Partner Have Done This?" talks about the WW and the WWs actions and probable state-of-mind. I told my H about it and left it on his nightstand. He read the 15 pages that night and told me it was helpful. I told him to keep the book and read more but he said he didn't need more. (He can be so stubborn!)

Maybe. But it's still early, right? He can change, right?

Thanks for the encouragement, V.

As a BS, I can say that D-Days have a way of forcing the BS to take a good look at themselves to see how they may have contributed to the problems in the M that might have led to their partner stepping out. Your BH may not admit it, but I'm guessing that's exactly what he went through, and likely is still going through.

From the above, it looks your H is quite aware of a few of the habits and behaviours that caused problems in your M and is consciously trying to correct them. If these are well-ingrained, it's going to take a while to get rid of them, and there will be setbacks. He's learning how to positively interact with you, and some of those old negative habits can be very hard to give up.

Also, while it will likely be better if he takes up MB, I suggest trying to avoid "educating" him, and show him it works by your "living" it. Lead him by example.

I agree with this and am trying to practice patience and understanding. My reactions to his bad habits are also engrained. I'd normally sit and take it. So I'm trying to balance between being respectful of the pain he's trying to process and boundaries that I know I have to put in place, so that we don't get back them bad ol' days. Currently, letting him do whatever he wants to do is winning out more often than not.

Thanks, MIM. I'm trying and am aware I'm not perfect.

Actually this makes very good sense. I went through this and eventually changed the bad habits I knew existed. It didn't happen overnight either.

My H didn't want to talk to anyone, stopped going to MC and would have nothing to do with IC. But he would read helpful articles if 'no one was watching'.
Didn't mean to steer you wrong L4, I'm glad MIM corrected me.

You didn't, V. I accept all advice. I don't necessarily always follow it but...

And who knows? Maybe my H is reading articles online or tucked secretly inside another book like your H did. Perhaps my H just isn't admitting it. I can hope.

Yup, that's the old "dance", and here's the thing - it takes TWO to do it. Best way to change it is to try different steps when you sense it starting to happen. You can't force HIM to try new steps, but you can certainly do so on your own.

In fact, I've found I've gotten pretty good results by doing something completely unexpected when my FWW started to get a bit "testy", like giving her a quick kiss and telling her "yes, I love you too"

L4,

I think you need to let your H know when he crosses the line. I doubt he wants to deal with all of this just to find out you are pissed off at the end. If your boundaries tip him over to leaving you then he probably wasn't going to stay anyway.

I was wondering if you have asked him, straight up, if he is just staying for the children? That was my plan, although, having an infantile WW made my plan stupid.
I am VERY VERY good at controlling what I say and do and so I was able to just bury everything, make nice and WW never knew what was up. Maybe your H is as compartmentalized as I am, so you are seeing glimpses of something.

Even if he is just staying for the children that gives you years to make it work, it also takes the minute to minute pressure off you.

L4 I wish I had a lot of wise words to say but other than I have been through some of what you are going through I have no better advice than what I have read here.

So much of my own battles were within myself as my DH was deployed a number of times during this period. Like asking questions of a shadow figure ... sort of weird time.

I think in a way when my H called me a heap of names and swore at me for some time it gave him an outlet for his anger. I know some disagree with what I accepted from him yet it seems to have worked for us. maybe even the deployments helped.. being away from me for a while .... I don't know. Somehow someway the counselling... the positive actions of blogging all I do every day especially when he is away ... having total open life to him... all bank.... mail... everything he has access to.

I even used to freak out being caught in traffic and getting home late even when he was away.

BUT ...... there are times I doubt even now ... even after a new baby & the enormous joy we have in each other... have I injured him beyond repair ?? He says no.. and yet it remains a dark fear of mine. I did learn one thing though... he did not want some pathetic lilly livered submissive wife ... he did not want to married to as he put it 'f*cking Mrs I'm so Sorry' ... he wanted his wife back ... the one who stood up to him and called him on issues when I disagreed. Not that I see a great change in his decisions :RollieEyes: but you can't have everything right?

My daughter who got married not long ago to her own soldier does a lot of singing to raise money for the kids hospital... one of her passions... she sang this song not long ago ..anti-war that she is ... which really hit me hard ... it was ME I felt she was singing about ...and it reminded me of your situation too.

I love you my hard englishman
Your rage is like a fist in my womb
Can't you forgive what you think I've done
And love me - I'm your woman

And I desire you my hard englishman
And there is no more natural thing
So why should I not get loving
Don't be cold englishman

How come you've never said you love me
In all the time you've known me
How come you never say you're sorry
And I do

Ah, please talk to me englishman
What good will shutting me out get done
Meanwhile crazies are killing our sons
Oh listen - englishman

I've honoured you - hard englishman
Now I am calling your heart to my own
Oh let glorious love be done
Be truthful - englishman

How come you've never said you love me
In all the time you've known me
How come you never say you're sorry
And I do
I do

I just went to mush inside.... God for a chance to do over ... but we can't can we.
I really do feel that maybe the Harleys could help you ....they seem to have some success in engaging reluctant spouses ... could be worth a call ... they may have some great strategies to get the ball rolling for both of you.

all the best

AW

Geez, AW. This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing your story with me and this beautiful song. Your support means much. I too, have that dark fear that I've done irreparable harm and he's going to leave. It's unfortunate to read that that feeling apparently never leaves. But as you and so many others here have helped me understand is that I need to work hard, be radically honest, show need, establish and hold boundaries, be patient, be loving, be fun, meet my H's ENs (which I'm guessing at), and be there for H and my family. If I do these things, H and I at least have a chance to recover.

Thanks again.