Welcome to MB, GM.

I am tst's wife, SMB.

A lot of what you are saying and doing remind me of my FWS when he first came here. Once his affair ended, he was filled with grief and sorrow for what he had destroyed...our marriage, our family, our memories.

I encourage you to continue taking actions that will demonstrate to your wife your desire to heal her heart. But also realize that the damage you have done is HUGE and will take not just months, but years to repair. It only happens when you are consistently remorseful and compassionate and always place the care and protection of your wife above everything, including yourself.

You wife has every right and reason to leave you, you know that. What if she does? Are you still committed to doing whatever it takes to heal her heart?

Right now you have an opportunity to become the man you long to be...a man of honor and integrity. A man worthy of respect.

Mike,

There are people of good will here who are trying to help us, and if you don't want to be one of those people, that is fine, but I won't be responding to you until I have made more progress, and my wife and I are farther along in this. I can say you are jumping to wrong conclusions though undoubtedly for honorable reasons, and you are trying to help in your own way. But for the time being, I will try to learn from and respond to those posts that indicate an understanding of the actual situation here. You are on the wrong path and constructing a theory about me that is faulty.

GM,

FYI, MB has an ignore feature. When you use it, you will no longer be able to see that user's posts. All you need to do is click on a username, then click on "ignore this user's posts."

It can be very helpful, especially when you are early in recovery and really need to tune out unhelpful posters.

Thank you, SMB. You are right about everything, and I do know that she has every reason to leave me. I am committed, and for all my shortcomings, when I am committed to something, I am dogged and persistent. I know this will take years.

I also have this one single opportunity to be a good man of honor and integrity in the years left to me, and I don't intend to squander it. Your comments are extremely helpful and give me some needed encouragement and hope.

Thanks again, SMB! Maybe in this early stage, it would be a good thing.

I guess the first thing for you to do is to quit all contact with the other lover for at least six months. Six weeks does not cut it.

And why were you with this other woman so long? You must have loved her more than your wife, right?

No one could stay with a woman and help them for so long unless they loved them.

Is this the only reason you want to save your marriage, the reason that, "You don't want to die alone?"

SIX YEARS IS A LONG TIME.

Once you have broken contact with your other female lover, what makes you think you can keep that contact broken. What if she asks you for help, says she needs you, calls you and tells you she loves you? Will you run to your affair partner's side in the future and hide this from your wife?

That is true. The A was nearly dead and had been a terrible burden for the last half year at least, with veiled threats of exposure by her and increasing demands. And OW's behavior after I told her I was going to not see her again and try to make it work with my wife was very bad and revealed her true nature to me, including overt blackmail. She also tried every subterfuge in the books to try to communicate with me, even disguising herself as someone else on the internet, and her last attempt was about a month ago. My wife was kept totally informed and involved with all these attempts and helped me construct responses or non-responses that would cut her off. Yes, the A was a dead end and has turned out to be nothing like I thought it was. I spent years in a stupid fantasy that was as untrue as Mike's theory about me on this thread. In reality, i was an addicted monkey who kept pushing the button for another hit of cocaine, disregarding everything else that was important. I was addicted to the way she stroked my ego, and was alway available for sex. I have had absolutely no desire to see her or have anything to do with her since this affair broke on Sept. 30th, and I still do not. I do not want to see her ever again or speak to her. I have had no problem with withdrawal.


The information you gave me about what Dr. Harley has written seems helpful. But perhaps I am too messed up to even know how what is helpful or not. Maybe Mike is right. I don't really know anything anymore.

Where does he say this?

Those are good questions, Stellakat. There is no contact by me with OW, though she tried a lot to contact me initially by phone, then though the internet clear up until about a month ago. Yes, six years is a very long time, and it seems impossible for the marriage to be rebuilt, because of the sheer amount of time and how, for her, it makes everything in our lives into a lie for so long. There is nothing we can do or say moment to moment that does not call forth the previous 6 years and instantly make my wife feel the immensity of the betrayal and its pain every single waking moment and often in her dreams at night also. It is a nightmare for her. It is also horrible for me to contemplate the pain I have caused her. For her, though, it is orders of magnitude worse. Is it possible to survive this and build a real marriage that works and is based on love and trust after such a thing? How is this possible with such an awful thing that I did for so long?

The question about loving OW is extremely hard for me. Of course I must have loved her and felt that I did at the time, but I have been so dysfunctional and infantile in what my concept of love is, that I feel now, based on what I have read on MB, that it was not really love in retrospect. My basis for love is real and huge with my wife, because I respect and adore her and love being with her. We have two wonderful grown children together and many good memories and shared experiences. But so many love units were withdrawn from that bank over the years, all of which were due to my problems and attitudes and her perfectly reasonable response to my behavior, that she was angry with me most of the time, and I withdrew from the pain of feeling her anger, eventually seeking an OW rather than face up to my failures and try to to correct them. I interpreted her anger poorly and assumed that she no longer loved me or needed me. In reality, it turns out that she loved me all along and was wasting her life away waiting for me to "come around". In spite of her anger, she still wanted me back. It is when I learned that at the time of discovery of the A, that my entire concept of self collapsed, and I broke down completely. I realized at that time what a total horror I had perpetrated for so long. The fact that I destroyed a marriage for 26 years is like some kind of bad dream that I feel like I am waking up from or waking up TO. It is a sickening and sad tale all the way around. What I need to know is if our chances are slim or none. Is this just TOO MUCH? Can my wife survive the pain of this long enough to let me prove that I can be the husband that she always thought I could be and meet her emotional needs, and fill her love bank and fall in love together again? Is that really possible for us after something like this that lasted SIX YEARS?

I feel confident that I can do the work and be a true, honest, honorable, and loving husband. I am willing to do whatever it takes for however long, but is it possible for her to be able to do this after this much time and so many lies? How could I "love" this OW and just walk away from it and not look back? How is that possible? That is what I am doing, and I am not experiencing withdrawal or cheating and seeing or communicating with her. Does that mean I did not really "love" her? It must be, but then how could I do what I did for so long, if that love was an illusion? Is there merely something completely and intrinsically wrong with me? I functioned at a high level in medical practice for 24 years and was always ethical, kind, and highly respected by my peers. I have succeeded with my community projects since retirement. But my personal life is such a total mess, I don't even know what love means and maybe never did. I have been an emotional zombie at the marital level. I am not really fearful of dying alone as a reason for trying to save our marriage. I expressed that feeling in a post, but it is not a reason I want to stay married and spend my remaining years with my wife. I want to save it because it is worth saving, and because my wife is a remarkable person who I love and apparently always did deep down, though I could not access it and abused it.

How does this happen, and can we recover, Stellakat?

well here is my take on your situation gm.

after reading thru this thread i have a similar feeling as mike. i see you being an intelligent, financialy comfortable retired physician who has controlled his marriage and been in a "Holly Then Thou" position with his patients for many years.

now that your professional career is over and your little secret is has been outed you are worried about losing all that "you" have built/gained. or at least half.

I think your w is tired of your manipulative ways and her having found this site has given her the tools to see thru your b.s.

now you come here with your miraculous "seeing of the light". i get a strong feeling you are using this site as a way of manipulating your w even further.

why do i say this? the polygragh excuse is one but the real clincher for me was your denial of how much you spent on the ow over the course of 6 years.

i hardly believe that an ow knowing you had a successful physicians salary would be happy with you simply buying her some hamburger helper and repairing her old vw for 6 years.

also you are just too dang remorseful for such a short period of time following exposure. maybe i'm wrong but there seems to be lacking that period of fog and withdrawl from an A that lasted 6 years.

but then again maybe it is just the ability of a physician to remain emotionally withdrawn. which in itself gives me reason to doubt your sincerity.

call me a cynic.

Rusty, My wife and I discussed this in length when we phone counseled with Dr. Harley Chalmers.

This information is also in Dr. H's book SAA.

I included a link where you can also find the information on this site, but if you are going to read the link, please read it all. It is some of the most insightful reading about how A's end/should end.

Link

Thanks, Pops. I appreciate your opinion, even if I hold hope that it isn't the case. The truth is that I am confused, lost, scared, and uncertain who I am am right now. I am not even sure of who I have been and why. At the same time, I am determined and want to save our marriage, not because of money, but because I genuinely feel that my wife is the best person I have ever known, and I feel that I need to do what is right by her and for us. The problem now is that we are both on this site, so that anything I write or say will be seen as manipulation or subterfuge. Perhaps I should just work the program, attend a weekend and the entire course, and hope to God that she is willing to try with me long enough to overcome enough grief to allow me to stay with her, but stay away from this forum because of the way it can be interpreted with her here also. I deeply appreciate those who have wished us well and given me hope. I don't want to lose the forum as a resource for help and support, but the fact that my wife is also here clearly presents problems.

By the way, I was a pathologist. I did not have my own patients, but was involved in tissue diagnosis. I am not quite the total jerk that many seem to be concluding, except in what I have done with my personal life and my choices and behavior regarding our marriage. I also am not afraid to take a polygraph. I also am not desperate to keep half my "money". There are trusts in my step mom's estate that, together with social security and my ability to go back to work as a pathologist that would allow me to live OK, even if this marriage falls apart and assets are split. It does make me feel a little creepy that some on this forum are interpreting my situation as an attempt to keep money. In reality, it is an attempt to keep my wife. I am sorry to everyone here for wasting your time or just angering you. It seems that I am sorry about everything in my life right now, and that is just annoying to people and sounds like whining. I will come back here, if we can get past this first stage and start making progress in the program. I am sure the other areas of the forum are full of incredibly helpful support.

I hear you asking this often, and I understand your fears, but honestly GM, no one can answer this for CERTAIN.

Of course ANYTHING is possible...and in this sitch, it is largely up to YOU.

Your W has been slaughtered, GM. She cannot heal herself in this situation...you are a doctor so you should understand this analogy.

The wound that she has been delievered MUST be healed by YOU. You are the perpetrator AND the healer here. If you want the BEST chace at helping to close up that wound, then take the LEAD in her care.

Read, read, read here...do ALL of the questionaires, follow all of the Basic Concepts, do the counseling, go to the MBW.

When she tells you what she needs, LISTEN and then ACT.

IF your care is exceptional of her in this healing process, then yes, I believe she can love you again. It may never fully go away, once you have been burned this badly, the best that 3rd degree burn wounds can turn into are deep scars. But one can still function with deep scars. However, they will always be tender.

Mike,

I re-read this, and as much as it hurts, you are right. I have to face the reality of who I am before I can make any progress or changes at all. My posts here have been clinical and removed and some kind of fakery of the highest order. Those who have questioned what I have posted know a lot more than me. I have not been honest with myself or anyone, and I need help. I am sorry for trying to argue and defend myself with those here who have questioned me. My only chance at any happiness at all is to listen and follow and do the program. I am very sorry for the way I have behaved here.

Get a polygraph as I suggested to you W.

GM......that will help YOU. You have to establish a personal commitment to honesty, even with yourself. Puke it all out now, no more secrets.

I bluffed on the polygraph with my WW, (didn't have one scheduled), made my list of questions, and watch her fill it out with my D filing sitting on the table. It was like giving birth, watching her lies melt away as to who what where when, very painful and shameful for her to admit, very painful for me to hear...but it was cleansing for her.

You OW is not going to stop, btw. You were her lifeline, and it has only been a month. If I were your wife I would insist to move far away.

I know you have your dream home...so do I...but knowing the OM was here makes it a lot less of a dream....

Greenmile, why are you asking us what you FELT? You are the only one that can report your feelings. From what you said, you were in love with the OW - addicted - for several years and then fell out of love with her. At what point did you fall out of love with her? Or did you?

If you did fall out of love with her, what caused that?

GM

******************Those who have questioned what I have posted know a lot more than me.***********************

i don't know whether i know more then you or not. the same goes for others. i do know that we have had the "experience" and "heard/read" many, many stories about infidelity on this and other sites similar to it. most have seen many ws's who have not been honest when professing their remorse.

******************* I am sorry for trying to argue and defend myself***************

that is what we here call the fog. happens to most, not all but most waywards

***************My posts here have been clinical and removed and some kind of fakery of the highest order.****************

do you think this could be from the years you have spent in your career? not trying to bash you or any physician but from my experience it seems that by their choice of profession they have to remove themselves emotionally from their work. or they risk the becoming very depressed due to the constant emotional angst they see in their either patients or as in your situation results of their diagnosis's.

i don't think that you have to leave this place just because your w is here also. you do however have to make sure you keep to your own posts and stay away from hers.

this will be an ethical decision that only YOU can make and keep. and it will be a very difficult thing to do. i say that just from the person that imho i see you as from your writing style. and i mean that in no disrespectful fashion.

can your w find love and fall in love with you again? someone said it is up to you. that you have to repair what you have done.

even though i agree with that i also think it is largely up to her and the type of person she is. if she is a forgiving, compassionate, person who has empathy for others you have a chance.

the one thing you will have to understand and learn rather quickly is that although the people here are not experts through years of institutional education. they have definately earned their phd's from experience. they are very adapt at seeing thru facads.

so why is that important? because your w my good man, has found a place where she will recieve honest, truthful, compassionate, and sometimes in her face advice on how to deal with you and with all of the legal and emotional issues you have so carelessly laid in her lap.

some good individual counseling is definately in order to help you find out why you were able to treat your w in the manner that you did. that would be my advice for your 1st step. next read the information here and get some couseling from the harley's. 3rd make a weekend seminar fit into your schedules and 4th take a good hard look into the mirror and figure out who and what kind of person is looking back

i do wish you luck with this and i do wish you luck with just becoming a better spouse/partner.

p.s. I agree with MikeC2 about the polygraph. This can help you both, GM. It will prove your veracity and help your wife get over this affair. You are very concerned that she can get over it.....well, this is an excellent way to do that.

I am a little disturbed about how you tried to marginalize MikeC2 and dismiss his points as those of a "jaded" individual rather than addressing his points. He had valid questions/concerns and was dismissed for presenting them.

That is a RED FLAG TO ME because that is the trait of one who is trying to CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Rather than being "jaded," MikeC2 is EXPERIENCED. There is a world of difference.

Thanks, MarriedForever. This is what I am beginning to understand. I have started all of these things and will take the lead in the program. Even if there is only a smidgen of hope and knowing that the scars will always be there, I want to do everything I can. I cannot live any longer being the person I have been. Even today, I revealed a few things that I had been withholding out of fear that it would be a deal breaker, and maybe it was. It has set her back to the very beginning. I cannot hide or lie about anything to her ever again and expect this program to work or to heal and build a real marriage. I am just terrified, but I will do this. Again, sorry to everyone here for my prior posts. I am just a deeply flawed human being, and I don't want to be that anymore.

GM, that is good that you gave her more information. Can I suggest you get anything else out there NOW so she deals with one hit instead of several? Everytime something new comes out it puts her back to day 1 of recovery as you can see. You will both die a death of a thousand cuts if it comes out in dribs and drabs. Better to suck it up and get it all out there in one HIT and get it over with.

Even if you think it will kill her, spill it out NOW and get it over with. In Dr. Harley's words:

"Radical honesty is so important in marriage that there is a much greater risk of divorce when a couple is not radically honest, than there is when a couple reveals very hurtful information to each other."

I do understand what is happening to you. You have been lying for so many years that honesty does not feel natural to you so it is a matter of retraining your moral compass. You have trained your instincts to lie to protect yourself from the consequences. Honesty is very hard at first, but I applaud you for getting it out there. You are on the right track, GM!