Recovery is nothing like driving a Ferrari. Maybe the analogy is off but still...

Why would you want to commit yourself to the hard work recovery requires while you are unsure if you want the M? That doesn't make much sense.

Rprynne,

""I can not accurately rate how much I want a M, that I have not either experienced or can reasonably predict the experience. All I can rate is how much I would like to experience it.""

So even though under your sig line you have "married 17 years",
you do not feel like you ever experienced an M(?)

So you are looking for an M that is not what you had for the first say, 13 years?

And if so, like "in a perfect world" the M would be what? Oh yeah, the Ferrari scenario doesn't let you in on it.

So when do you know if you are experiencing Nirvana?

kirk

rprynne,

You said
How is asking her if she has a plan, engaging in things. Do you plan to simply sit there on the fence and offer no opinions, no insights, and certainly no effort including simply asking questions?

Is so, why are you remaining married to her? Why did you let her come "home"? I must admit you have me confused.

What is HER plan? And how do you expect to make any changes including divorce if you don't know the score?

God Bless,

JL

Okay, I'm very confused. You have been separated 3+ years more or less? With a few false recoveries thrown in? Did you do Plan B at all? Was it dark?

I'm asking because if you didn't do Plan B and didn't set conditions to return, I am very suspicious that she is using you. Not necessarily in a cake-eating way (doesn't appear to be a current OM) but for something. And your own confusion about the situation is leaving you ripe for being taken advantage of.

You need to decide what you want. It's not "do I want to be married?" It's "do I want to be married to HER?" You need to answer this. There is nothing you can do until it is answered.

If you don't know where you are going you will end up someplace else.

Rpynne,

Gosh, you sitch and your answers to the questions you have been posed with really seem like someone not in touch with reality at all. OTOH, I have not come here to judge your reasoning or your emotions in this case.

If you’ll bear with me I would like to tell you a true story I witnessed in my lifetime.

It concerns my MIL who was abandoned after her cheating husband left her and simply moved away to the opposite coast. He never gave her CS, alimony or even a few extra bucks, because she absolutely refused to divorce him. You see, she saw him as sick, much like we view addiction and fog around here.

Over the years, I observed my MIL and her conviction about not seeing a lawyer for some sort of justice and support for the two kids she had as ludicrous. She worked three jobs to put food on the table and a roof over the head of my wife and her brother. People viewed her as pig headed and a fool.

Initially so did I, and eventually my w and I built an in law appt on the side of our house to take her in as she become older and not able to keep up. She went on disability income (as a result of the incredibly hard work she would take on to provide for the kids.)

During this time her WH(about ten years into this) came back and they attempted to R. For me it was beyond belief and much more than he deserved. However my MIL somehow managed to preserve the love for him over all those years of absence and was delighted to try once again. Within a year, he began to once again abuse her emotionally and my wife and her brother told him to pack up and leave town. He was no longer welcome in the family he abandoned years ago.

He did so, and eventually died at a very young age in his mid forties.

My MIL insisted on attending the funeral in a far away state, and when she came home, had an emotional breakdown for about two weeks. She couldn’t get off the couch. It was horrible. She was with us at the time.

The point I am trying to make after this long boring tale, is that for some, time does not matter. It’s relative when comparing the strong emotions of the heart, and sometimes has no bearing.

We are what we are, and feel what we feel.

I won’t judge what you are trying to do, but caution you, to do things in the right manner, as in MB weekends and the like. This is not going to just “pick up where we left off” and miraculously be successful. Thus your willingness to NOT become venerable and remain detached. No one wants to put their heart out their like that after nearly five years of pain. It’s unimaginable.
OTOH, miracles do happen, but it seems they need some guidance along the way. I’m sure you’ll be accused that you’ve set the bar too low, something I probably did myself, but, unless you’ve witnessed my MIL’s life, sometimes you don’t know what humility and loyalty really mean. I learned from a pro.

All Blessings,
Jerry

For the most part I hate spouting little bon mots like this, but it’s seems so apropos at the moment:

Hope is not a plan.

In case it hasn't already been spouted.

Yes.


Yes.


Yes.


I see it as a bad thing, simply because I do not like the baggage of feeling like my FWW is with me because she was going to lose me. I would have preferred she was with me because she wanted to be with me.

Why won't you go to a MB weekend?

Okay

I'm not trying to be sneaky or confusing about this. If we can be happily married, then I want the M. If we can not, then I don't. I do not know if we can be happily married. So I want to find that out.

Correct. At least not an intimate M.


Correct again. Our M for the first 13 years was a sham.


I don't know.

No that is not my plan. I mean, that's the whole point of my thread, I don't have a plan, I'm trying to figure out one. In its simplest form, I want to attempt recovery, but I also do not want to be screwed over again. Someone asked if I would be devastated if she left, and I said no. But I would be devasted if I buy into it again and get screwed over.


I let her come home becuase I didn't think she would come home. At that point, she had ended contact, was living with her sister and was trying to pursue some sort of long distance M with me. I was still married to her becuase at that point, I did not see any urgent need to get divorced. Meaning, I was not lonely, and did not desire to be around any women. Our finances had long been separated, I was living in my own place, we have no kids, so only thing being M'd meant at that point was that I couldn't date, so I was fine with that. But that can only last so long. So I told her, I'm lonely, I desire female companionship, I'm not willing to do this long distance M, so I'm filing for divorce. That's when she said she wanted to move back, us to move back into our house, her to quit her job, us to try to work things out. I went along with it because I thought it would be a good thing to try, but also was fully aware that it could be just another set up. So, I went along with it only to the extent, that it didn't cause any obstacles to me filing for divorce. In short, I said fine, because it wasn't going to hurt me, so what the heck.

No. (maybe a brief one, but not one that really counts). SH told me not to bother with plan B. He advised do plan A until I wanted to plan D. I did not follow his advise in that I quit plan A after our third false recovery.


I can't see how, but wouldn't rule it out.

Your WW screwed you over and now wants you to financially support her and you thought what the heck because you're lonely and she made herself available?

Sounds like trouble to me.

Jerry,

Thanks for the story. All I can say is that I'm as in touch with reality as anyone you could meet. I just have a different perspective on many things.

I may do that. Its like I said before, I do not want to invest if I'm going to get burned.

She is terrified of me financially supporting her. She quit a job that makes more than I do, and I make plenty of money. So, I don't think it's a money grab.

As I posted, I told her I was divorcing because I was lonely, I let her come back because it could not hurt. Why are you inferring that I let her come back because I was lonely?

Thanks for the reminder.

No that is not my plan. I mean, that's the whole point of my thread, I don't have a plan, I'm trying to figure out one. In its simplest form, I want to attempt recovery, but I also do not want to be [censored] over again. Someone asked if I would be devastated if she left, and I said no. But I would be devasted if I buy into it again and get [censored] over.

Wow R,

I understand your fear of engaging with this woman again after so long and apparently 3 false recoveries already. But your level of apathy is astounding and certainly isn't a plan. It seems you perhaps don't want people here to give you a plan, but rather, you want people to tell you "what you should do."

Only you can decide that. It seems pretty simple to me however.

You either:

1. Plan A and fully commit yourself to R with the full knowledge that you may in fact get stabbed in the heart again. This would take a lot of courage on your part.

2. You plan D and move on with your life. Not as much courage required but the "safe" choice.

Lolling around forever will not solve anything and will only make you and her miserable.

This is something that only you can decide though.

Okay this does not make sense. You were divorcing her because you were lonely, i.e. wanted to be free to date again, correct? Fair enough. If this is the case, how is her coming back NOT going to hurt your chances for this? Honestly, who's going to date a guy who's living with his XW? Her presence can either (a) resolve your loneliness if you pursue marital recovery or (b) exasperate your loneliness by making you even less available than you were when you were living apart.