L4 just remember that there is NOTHING wrong in seeking professional help... I got it and it really did help.... the Harleys seem to have great insights ... please consider spending a few bucks on them. Even if they say you are doing ALL that can be done right now it will really help YOU to know that.

And the guys here giving you advice were so spot on with Aussies reactions.

Anyway get moving and make the call.

Take care

AW ... who is off to bed.... FINALLY.

I have been seeing an IC here and there. I'll see if I can swing talking to Dr. H, too. H isn't a fan of outside help so I have to position any counseling carefully so he supports it. I'm seeing my IC again next week.

H and I are going on our first, pre-planned date night tonight since my confession. We've been out before spontaneously to grab a bite, but we're getting a baby-sitter, going to a movie, and having dinner... Like a REAL date. I'm giddy about it! Just wanted to share.

In a word: stinkin' awesome. I am so happy for you, L4. Try to live in the moment and have fun!

Going to see Slumdog Millionaire by chance? My FWW and I went to see it. It is a great date flick.

FWIW, L4, same here with my W. She did not believe in MB because it is too "cookie cutter" and not specific to our situation. Interestingly enough, however, she often mentions terms like love bank, complete transparency, radical honesty, etc. It is possible she learned the concepts from me but I found a bookmark on her laptop...

L4 same with my Aussie .... "You f*cked it up you fix it" was the mantra.

Took a while and a smart MC/IC to get him to talk with her BUT she knew her stuff and as she provides IC help to soldiers which also helped... knew how to talk to him.

that's why Harley's for you would have some chance of success ... they KNOW what the deal is.

It WILL not be quick or easy... but better than a IC here or there who probably knows bugger all about adultery and its effects. Might really want to help but just don't have the extensive experience of the Harleys.

Now for the important stuff .... HOW DID THE DATE GO???????????

said a little prayer for you both.

I can't explain it, but I'm losing the will to fight. So much has happened since last Friday when I was happy about our date night. I don't want to write about it all now. H is being supportive, but I know now he comforts me because he doesn't like "to see me sad" and because he "cares". Not because he loves me but because he's worried about me. You can worry about anyone.

What am I doing? I'm fighting for someone who doesn't love me. Someone whom I don't deserve. I guess I'm still a very selfish person. Selfish when I went outside my relationship, selfish in wanting to stay married to a person who wouldn't marry me if he had it to do again. Why do I want hang around only to remind him of the worst time in his life? How can I do this?

You are as many WW here. You want not only your marriage to be a better one then the old one. You want your BH to heal in one month.

I commend you for working to these goals.

I condem you for forgeting that the time needed to heal will not happen even after a few months.

Recovery is a process that takes from two to five years.

The best thing you can do is to do your best. Take each day as it comes. Enjoy and savor the good momenmts as they come.

You can not rush this process. You can not control whether your BH will decide to stay or leave. You only can provide an environment that will make your BH question his desire to leave.

On one hand he will say I have a great wife and home. Then my WW had an affair.

Which will he let go?

Can he let go that you slept with the OM?

Can he let go of the improved you?

If you want your BH then you must let go of the time you will have to invest to attempt recovery.

As with all investments there are no guarantees. You risked with the affair.

Are you willing to risk with the recovery?

If your not willing to risk, then leave your BH.

I know this, TheRoad. He will hurt perhaps forever and never heal. But this pain I'm feeling now is self-inflicted. He seems okay today -- okay for a BH, that is. H has said many things these last few days. And I've taken the good and the bad. He's been amazing and also hurtful. He wants me to confide in him, saying he wants to comfort me and help me. I tell him how I'm feeling then he uses some of the things I tell him against me. Names he's called me in the last few days include sl**, ret**d, hypocrit, liar, cheater, and stupid. And he always uses these labels in the present tense. I correct and say that's who I was, and he comes back and says, "That's who you are." I can't sleep. I'm feeling beat up. And today I'm the one throwing the punches at myself.

H is leaning on me to help him through this. And I'm 100% committed to helping him. What this entails, though, is him telling me how he feels and what he thinks -- namely about me. I can take it usually. But not these last three days. Maybe I'm not as strong as I pretend and I'm too vulnerable to hear what he really thinks of me.

I can't get in to see my IC for another week. I'm trying to hold my head up. I just hit bottom again -- shaking and crying at the drop of a hat. It's been 7 months since my PA ended. I was making progress and had hoped I'd be farther along by now. Yes, I'm willing to risk with the recovery. I can only pray that someday H thinks I'm worth it.

L4,

I too fought for someone who didn't love me and told me so. She said she hadn't loved me in years and in fact had never really loved me. She told me that she could never be happy with me; that too much had happened; that anything I was doing was too little/too late...

She told me things that made me wonder if I should just cut my losses and move on with what is left of my life.

I fought anyway...

She flirted with OM and said things to him that would have gotten me to give up almost anything and basically was for him the perfect lover, one who was exciting, always dressed up while her typical outfit for me is jeans and sweatshirts...

I fought anyway...

She wrote things to, for and about OM that would have any man panting after her. She NEVER did any of those things for me.

I fought anyway...

In the days after D-day she was moody, uncooperative, sullen, withdrawn, wavering between wanting divorce and telling me she wished she could love me.

I fought anyway...

For weeks after I had confronted her she did not say she loved me and for about 3 months afterward she did not say she loved me without being prompted bt me saying it first.

I fought anyway...

She sent sexy emails, pictures and short stories OM almost daily. She never sent any of those things to me.

I fought anyway...

It was months before she told me that she was glad I had fought for her.

But she also said she was glad that I fought anyway...

She was the one who nearly destroyed our marriage.

And I fought anyway…

Do you want this to be over?

Or do you want to recover your marriage?

Buyer or renter?

If you quit now it will be over and you can move on with your life.

And so can your husband.

But you'll never know if you could have recovered your marriage.

Maybe you can't, but quitting now means you won't...

Mark

This is the second time that I've read about your H's name calling.

For maybe a week after first D-Day and 3 days after second D-Day did I call WH names, vile names.

My anger moved forward to hurt and despair, then back to anger and so on and so on...... but the name calling had stopped. Recovery could not happen if I continued to want to punish and belittle WH.

I know your H refuses to accept any outside help, but I think he would benefit from it so much. It is a living hell being so angry all the time.

I really wish there was more I could say to help him.

Looking4, Your husband is acting exactly like most people do who have been told they are worthless...

Which is exactly what your affair meant to your husband.

He is now trying to return the favor...

By calling you names he is trying to show you how much what you did hurt him.

Not excusable BUT understandable.

YOU MUST FIND OUT FROM HIM WHAT HE NEEDS FROM YOU TO HEAL!!!

When my wife understood MY hurt was caused by her giving more EFFORT in her affair than she did in our marriage she understood what she needed to do to stop my pain.

When I saw her expending MORE effort on ME than she did on HIM my anger at being treated in an INFERIOR way became less and less every day!!!

As an example she drove FORTY MILES out of her way JUST to bring me my favorite snack at my work today (and get a kiss!)

She COULD have just packed it in my truck. What do you think that did for me?

THAT IS THE KIND OF STUFF THAT MENDS HEARTS AND LEADS TO RECOVERY!!!

Think about it.

God bless.

Jim

I want my H to be happy.

I don't want to quit. I want my H to heal, to not hate me, and to know -- really know -- I'm so sorry and want more than anything to change what I did. I want him to have the best that he deserves. I want to be the best. And I'm trying. But maybe it's in vain and someone out there would be better for him.

Maybe it's just the exhausted L4 talking.

Probably doesn't help that I've been in my own quiet recovery for 7+ months. He's been at it for only 13 weeks since my confession. I don't know... I'm not waving the white flag. Just feeling sorry for my H and really feeling today the weight of where I've taken us. I see from all your positive examples that the fight can be worth it. I'm just really messed up these last few days. Not at all loveable. So why would H stay?

Questions for me to continue answering...

Me, too. I appreciate you wanting to help. And you being here, offering your perspective is helpful, at least to me. Thank you.

I've asked him many times -- and at least once a day since you encouraged me to, Jim. His response continues to be "I don't know what I need." That's a quote from about an hour ago.

How cool is that? Awesome she did that. You're a lucky man.

I'm trying to do things similar to this. Doing things he's not expecting, giving extra attention, putting in extra effort, smiling even when I'm dying inside. I don't know his exact ENs are but I'm trying to do what I can with what I suspect is important.

Will it matter? I could be the best wife ever, but if he doesn't love me and won't respect me and if he's not happy, will it matter?

I'll keep trying. Just having a low (hopefully short-lived) moment.

Tell him often.

It can be worth it, L4. It can be worth it even if he decides to leave. It means you have recovered your dignity and self-respect if not your marriage.

One of the things he is still missing and I don't know how to tell you to tell him is that you are truly remorseful for the choices you made. This is what is missing in so many cases around here. Even in the ones where the marriage still continues years later this is what is missing.

I also wish I knew how to tell him that you don't want the old marriage where you acted as a renter but a new one where you are a fully committed buyer.

You might not be able to tell him so he understands, but you might be able to show him by your actions.

Hang in there, L4.

I wish he would get some help for himself...Dealing with this stuff alone truly sucks.

Mark

My H said something to me not too long ago, and it meant more to me than he could ever know. It wasn't anything spectacular or rehearsed. It was the morning after a night of 'cuddling' but that was as far as it went. This was due to me having 'images' in my head. I was saying how difficult I was finding these times that normally would result in more SF.
Anyway, he hugged me, and just said "You don't have to prove anything to me, none of this was your fault."


I have to tell you that I am finding this really strange, wanting to say something, anything to help you and your H heal. I should be slamming you for being the OW, but oddly I feel bad for both of you.

This may be a stage 5mos. post D-Day, I have no idea, this is my first time around.
Who knows what next week will bring, right?
Actually I think it is because you are trying and you seem more concerned about your H than yourself, as it should be.

Hang in there.
BTW I didn't realize your H is only 13wks in. It is tough.

Take care.

Hey L4....

I've been reading and praying for you but have had nothing to add until now.

You've made an astute notation....it has been just a little over 3 months since his entire world as he knew it disintegrated. You're 4 months ahead of him.......huge difference in the realm of re-building timelines. I did the same to my H for at least 6 months....even now, I occasionally think this recovery is hopeless. (I think i have a shallow Love Bank with a quick spiggot at times.)

But my H (now my Mr. romAnCe!) remains solid in his convictions....he will prove himself worthy no matter how long it takes. Y'know what? I am starting to get it now and it's been 2 years since I've been venting here on MB....well I wasn't here much last year due to other devastating factors which may or may not have helped in our M healing.

You're getting solid help from Road, Jim, Mark, Shocked and Vittoria and others so hang in there and keep venting here. You WILL overcome this, L4. Just think of it as climbing those 50+ stories of that building in Seattle and keep going even if you're only on the 5th floor. You'll make it gradually so take it slow and steady, even when you're exhausted. The view from the top is well worth it!

Continued best wishes to you,
Ace

"Probably doesn't help that I've been in my own quiet recovery for 7+ months. He's been at it for only 13 weeks since my confession."

It still seems to me as if you were only here just last week looking how to tell your BH about your PA. Your story still seems so fresh to me and I only can imagine how new it still feels to your BH.

This is a point that many a WW does not recognize.

It takes time to build a connection and have an affair.

It takes time to realize that the OM was not all that they were thought to be.

At that point in time the WW is ready to dump the OM. Her mind had the time to process what happened. They are mentally ready to move on.

There have been many a WW here on MB that had their affair discovered after it was over. Whether months, a year, or years ago. Their mental state was that the PA was no worth it now and so they are leaving it behind them.

These WW's do not grasp that their PA was not over back then to their BH. To these BH's the PA happened on D day when they found out.

Later D days only cause the get over it point to now start at the later newer date.

I think that you need to not react when BH name calls. It may be best to just change the subject, ignore the name, leave the room. Do not show that the name calling bothers you. However this will also show that you will not tolerate it.

When there is a calm time later you can tell him that it is one thing for him to get angry about your PA and for him to express it. It's another thing for him to talk in a disrespectful manner.

Hi L4,

There may come a time when you feel you need to draw a line in the sand and say enough. You have the right to do that. No doubt your H's lack of participation and verbal abuse has taken quite a toll.

Your H has undoubtedly been questioning your commitment to the M, L4, and to walk away now will only vindicate those thoughts. He thinks you are not and have not been committed to him (and the M) throughout your entire relationship. In his mind the whole marriage was a farce. You have now been completely dedicated for how long? Three months? If we use the formula %C = ΔD ÷ ΔM, the results are dismal. (percent Commitment = duration Dedicated divided by duration Married).

You cannot control your husband. You may certainly be there to contribute but he needs to find happiness on his own. I can tell you from personal experience, three months are not enough time to fully comprehend what has happened let alone heal.

You have my support and the help of others. I hope your H will wise up and find a source of his own. It will greatly help with the healing process for both of you.

- Sh0cked