No, he doesn't. My kids are doing great. It came out of the blue -- maybe just him being 7. I don't know. I had a cold, I was reflecting on what I had read from iam, daughter was being demanding, trying to make dinner... Maybe DS wasn't getting the attention he wanted and reacted as he did because of it. He was back to his sweet self by bedtime. But for a time there, he was acting (unusually) like a real stinker.

I positioned this sentence incorrectly. That was my H's response when I told him what someone on MB said. My H has been great supporting me with our kids in recent months. Disrespecting Mama is not tolerated. H and I have each other's backs in that regard.

Yep. Somedays I can pick up the sword and fight the cause 'till the end. Other days, I can cave, especially when it comes to standing up for myself. I'm working on it though. Applying the leather now.

I am trying. I will be. I may falter. But I want to succeed. Really.

I will become that person, gosh darn it. I want to. You have to understand, I've had self-esteem issues for years. Some of this is new territory for me -- feeling okay about myself when others don't see it in me. I'm the first one to prop up others. Getting Looking4 to stand tall may take a bit longer. One layer at a time...

Do I dare question brilliance, Jim? God willing, you're right in my case.

Thank you.

P.S. Last night I put on a song that makes me sing -- through tears and/or smiles. "Song of Joy" from 1976 by The Captain & Tennille. I was in my office with iPod on, singing at the top of my lungs. H came in with a smile on his face and asked what I was doing. I said, "I'm singing." He said that they could hear me throughout the house. I said, "Deal with it." He grinned, shook his head, and walked out. So I hit replay and did it again. <tee hee>

Often I let it roll off my back. You get to know the members here and their stories and often I consider the source when reading posts. But for whatever reason, it kicked me in the gut when I read "Maybe her name is appropriate." Maybe if I read it today, I might have responded internally differently.

Thank you SO much, TH. This is beautiful. God willing and me trying, I can hope, right?

I met with Dr. Harley this morning, sans H. It was great. The analogies he gives are so clear and relatable. He gave me solid things to think about regarding how to help H heal with the doctor's four steps to healing: why, what, validation, and plan. (Much of it along what y'all have been saying here.) He also helped me grasp what I'm most struggling with which is how I could have done this. Me?! He gave the frog in the water analogy that was really eye-opening. Anyway, some great ideas, nice support, zero judgement, kind, professional, exercises to help me and the M... I'm really glad I did this.

Many hit-home moments during the call. One I'll share now is that he said a marriage should have no boundaries. The ideal should be a relationship where we don't need to put up boundaries and where we trust the other to not push where we feel a boundary is necessary. I think this is so cool. I lacked boundaries for so long that it was insightful to hear a year ago that I need boundaries to stop how I've been treated, and also how to hold them. Now to hear it could be possible (should be possible) to not need them with my spouse? Wouldn't that rock?

I shared the content of the call with H. All but some of the things Dr. H told me for helping myself with my own pain. I nudged H to consider getting help again, from some -- any! -- third-party. H then relvealed that he actually has the name of someone he's been thinking of calling. I told him I am not pressuring him but I think that would be helpful to us and to him.

H said he knows I want an answer as to if he's staying or going. I said I don't. That every day I'm with him is a blessing so I'm in no hurry for anything except wanting to help him.

H then said he feels like he and I are in a car and we're just driving. He said a year ago he knew where that car was going. Now he has no idea and he doesn't know if he has to take an exit, boot me out of the car, hand over the wheel... He just doesn't know. I said gently (with a smile on my face), you know how I love road trips. I'll ride with you anywhere for as long as you want. He smiled and said that he knows that. But he wants a destination. We hugged for a while.

And that's where we are now.

L4,

I don't know what the poster Iam said to make you feel this way, but I am sorry that it

made you feel bad. I think you have made great strides since I have learned from your

insight and they make sense to me. This has helped me understand my H. I believe

your words to be genuine and I look forward to your posts.


I think this is another 'beauty one' (first being your description of that mud pie)


BTW... remember that I am a new BS, and I think you are well on your way to becoming the amazing person that you want to be.

Just to remind you.....

Hi L4,

Don't get down on yourself. You are genuinely making the effort to right the wrong as best you can. As a BW sometimes hearing the BH's talk about their POSOM still stings a bit because that POSOM was my H once upon a time. Perhaps BHs have that same reaction when BWs talk about the POSOW for the same reason. Both sides feel the hurts. There is a HUGE difference between a WS and a FWS or one that is working on getting that F. Don't loose sight of that. Hopefully one day, neither you nor I will feel those stings.

Your road trip just might end up being a great adventure.

Looking4, You have been wondering what your husband has been waiting for?

He just saw a glimpse of what he is hoping for, to see what he can look forward to if he decides to stay (which is what I think he desperately wants to do)...

DID YOU LIKE THAT SMILE AND LOOK OF APPROVAL ON HIS FACE???

He just handed you the key...

Become the woman who is happy with herself and he will be happy being with that woman...

I'm proud of you.

Jim

Looking4, My wife and I either fought over the wheel, or nobody wanted to drive for a VERY long time...

When we learned to take TURNS driving is when we really fell in love again...

Good job with Dr. Harley!!!

God bless.

Jim

'Lightbulb moment' I just realized that this works both ways ... Jim Flint you have no idea how wise your words are.
Thank you.

But the rest of us do.

I sure hope this isn't a silly question, but, is there a place where the "four steps to healing" are written down and elaborated on? You know, like the "4 Rules to Guide Marital Recovery" that are on the website and in Surviving an Affair (which I have read, BTW....)

I don't know if this is a formal program that Dr. H has developed, but it's what he told me I have do to help my H. I did a brief search here on MB and did not find this process detailed anywhere so I'm sorry I can't give you something more comprehensive.

Why - Why did this happen? Why did I not protect my weaknesses -- my weaknesses being my emotional needs? When my ENs weren't being fulfilled by my H, why did I not protect myself and allow another man in to otherwise satisfy these? Having unmet needs, neglect, abuse, are not the answers to this, by the way. These excuses are not the "why". One can suffer these injustices and still not have an affair. I have to look at why I failed to prevent the OM from satisfying my ENs. Why did I allow him to fulfill my ENs? My ENs are my vulnerabilities to connectedness. Why did I make my ENs vulnerable to the OM thus allowing myself to connect with OM in ways that should be reserved for my spouse? I have to understand my ways of connectedness and why I didn't safeguard them. The WS needs to dig and learn this.

What - What happened? Mark1952 actually addressed this very thoroughly earlier in my thread here and put it much better than I ever could so I encourage you to read that. (When I'm logged in, it's on page 15, dated 12/19/08.) I have to know what sequences of events, what environments, and/or what factors were involved that put me in the position where I was forced to either protect my weaknesses or make them vulnerable.

Validation - My H needs to get to the point where he believes that I understand how my thoughtless actions affected my BH. Not validating my hurt. But that my BH's feelings -- whatever they may be -- are validated by me and that BH believes this.

Plan - This is where the extraordinary precautions come in that you've surely read about on MB. What is my plan to ensure that this never happens again. What will I avoid, do, say, practice, share, etc. to protect myself and my weaknesses going forward?

Once H and I have gotten through the healing from this tragic infliction as best we can, THEN we can work on our marriage. You can't run the race until you heal the gaping leg wound. Heal the wound first -- clean it out (painful), apply the apporpriate medicine and therapy, let it scar over (as it will never disappear), then run the race. If you don't properly clean the wound, infection will happen and will most certainly make things worse down the road.

As much as I want to get back to the race (our marriage), I have to do everything I can to heal my H's wound first.

I hope this helps, survived. It's not too detailed, but it's what I got form Dr. H and I hope it makes sense. Maybe the vets can further elaborate for you based on their experiences. While I've been doing these things in some form or another already due to the great direction of folks here on MB, I find this clear identification helpful.

Good luck to you.

Thank you, V. This jumped in my brain this morning when the alarm went off and motivated me to get my booty out of bed and on the treadmill.

L4, Thanks for posting this. There are some things here I'd like to talk to Chewie about, so I copied them and pasted them into what will be a letter to him,

I have over 1500 songs on my iPod. I get through 10 - 12 shuffled songs when I work-out. Would you believe that this song came up for me this morning? I'm a Happy Girl - Martina McBride

I thought of your your words, Jim, and Vittoria, Mark, black_raven, TheRoad, optin1, Ace, turtlehead, and everyone else here kickin' my backside to help my H and make myself the best I can be. Coincidence? I think not.

Take whatever you can to help you and Chewie, Chrys. I haven't posted on either of your threads as I have nothing to offer better then what you're already getting. Know that I am following them both closely and I hear your pain. I send you and Chewie my support and wish you only the absolute best.

((((Chrys))))

Thanks L4,
It does help, and it does make sense. I've known about needing to identify the "why" and about having to put a plan in place to prevent an A from happening again, but the "what" and the "validation" are new to me. Oh, I've probably seen the concepts discussed here on the forum, but sometimes you just have to hit me over the head with a 2X4 in order for me to "get it".
Seeing everything listed out and explained like that helps me make sense of it all (especially when I'm trying to explain it to my WW). She has been somewhat resistant to looking inside of herself to find the reasons why she did what she did (I think it's some kind of Zen saying the says "If you find yourself drowning, dive deeper"). She IS ashamed of what happened, but she would like to compartmentalize it and forget about it. I'm not going to let that happen, and this list will surely help.

BTW, I have followed your thread with great interest right from your first post. I'll go back and re-read Mark1952's post of 12/19 (seems like forever ago).

All the best to you, and thank you for your reply....

Thanks again, L4.

Money well spent.