Kidnapping....really??? That's the strangest "kidnapping" scenario I've ever heard of. He can call his kids at the same number any time he wants. He has visited them and taken them for week-ends while they have been "kidnapped".

As Bugs Bunny would say "what a maroon."

Don't forget this:

It's only in Wayward World that this would look like "kidnapping". Of course, in Wayward World, the Waywards are the center of the universe, which is why everything is so askew.

Hang in there

Sounds like typical wayward angry threats to me. He knew this luncheon was a way to communicate directly to you- and he used her to delever these threats.

The strongest reply you could have now, IMHO is to hold your course, stay dark and continue on.

I was wondering... has your H every used such severe threats before? To you or other people? How have you responded in the past when you felt threatened? I HOPE that you don't know- because you have never been treated like this before..

But it did make me wonder.

I would talk to your counsel about the validity of this- but it sounds doubtful (even all the way here from Detroit!)

This is why PB and the monitors are needed. They can filter out this harmful, abusive crap-- and you can stay focued on yourself and your kids - without becoming "derailed" by this nonsense.

{{{{{{{{Tully}}}}}}}}}}}

Methinks a certain OW is getting tired of hearing her dashing paramour whine all the time about not having his kids.

So yes, protect yourself legally and just go back to a dark PB.

Just more garbage, and I'm sorry it was directed at such a good person as you.

Thank you all.

I'm on here to tell you that it's all over. WH contacted the mediator yesterday to say that he wants to meet on Friday to arrange divorce proceedings and to agree on the future of the girls. The mediator told me that when I had asked for all negative messages from WH to be filtered she understood that my aim was to preserve hope for the future so she didn't want to dash those hopes but she said that for quite a while now she has wanted to tell me to move on and to forget about him. (despite the fact that she was always been so positive and hopeful intially)

WH rang last night to talk to the girls and I answered the phone. We spoke for about an hour. I probably shouldn't have. He is totally unremorseful and blames me for everything. He says that me leaving and exposing this to the children put them in the front line. He said he hates me for all I have done to him and how I have made him suffer for the past 2 and a half months. I replied that he could have stopped it at any time by promising NC with OW but he seems to filter that info totally. He says there was NC and there is NC right now. (Future contact at conferences where they might 'bump into each other' doesn't count for him and is unreasonable of me to demand)

No, he has never been like this before but then he's never been in this kind of situation before. He usually gets his way. I still can't believe that this is my husband who is doing this.

Anyway I'm a bit confused today so this isn't flowing well. But he talked again to me about having a case for kidnapping but he said he doesn't want to go down that route. If I will come back to France and give him half of the custody of the children then he won't do this. My solicitor says there's no question of this.

Got to run,

Tully

I am so sorry about all that is going on for you, Tully.
Maybe the vetran posters can give advice on this turn of events:

If you solicitor is right, there is no way he can charge you with kidnapping- and your WH husband knows that. So that part is a bluff.

The other part (about getting a divorce) may or may not be a bluff.

Why would he threaten you (kidnapping) with a bluff if he really just wanted a divorce? In America, most men who want divorces just have papers served to the spouse- I mean, they let the counsel do the arguing-

Tully,

This sounds like the OW talking to him and he is parroting HER words. She is saying things like,
" That Tully is soooooooo mean to you, punishing you like this. You know, you can probably get her on kidnapping charges. See the solicitor. Oh, and you need to get half-time custody. WE need to be a family. How could Tully be such a B**** and tell those sweet. precious daughters of yours about about this? She is trying to make sure they NEVER like me. She is trying to make sure WE'RE never happy.Waaa, waaaa, waaaa .blah. blah. blah"

When I was getting divorced my XH's "girlfriend" continually filled him with this crap. I could always tell when she had been talking to him about it. They do these things.

Even I am shocked at the lengths your H will go to keep up the charade. For instance, you KNOW that he spent the weekend with her at a luxury hotel. And stil he insists that there has BEEN NC.

Let others give you advice, but I am not sure I would meet with him about a divorce. AND, I definitely do not think things are all over yet. The OW is just putting HUGE amounts of pressure on him. I would protect myself and children legally, but let the pressure build on him till he pops like a giant, overfilled balloon.

Blessings Tully,

I agree. Let him do the work.

It is likely that WH wants to use the kidnapping charge to bring the children back to France to live. If he goes for a normal divorce, tully would get to keep them in Ireland, and of course he does not want them to be in another country from him.

I'm so sorry to read your latest post, tully.

Me three.

And don't doubt yourself. The fog is just rolling off of him. He reeks of OW. You are not the crazy one!

If you have it in you, drag out the D, if he even actually goes that route. (It wouldn't surprise me if he did, and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't. He's not playing with a full deck right now, so his actions are bound to be random and illogical.) You don't help him along with this one little bit.

{{{{{{{{Tully}}}}}}}}}}}

Wow, did my post get misunderstood...

There is more to Plan B than NC. And now, more than before, it is time to look at what else there is...taking care of tully, protecting yourself from the word's of the WH. Not getting consumed by the A. I understand WH is pushing hard at you, trying to get you to back down...to stumble...to give up. And it appears to be working...you are giving up your M.

So what do you want? And how are you going to get it...not in reaction, but in action...

Plan B is about taking back your life and not letting the A run it...

This might change tomorrow, but today WH has said he wants to divorce.

What is he trying to get tully to "back down" from?

How does her saying that WH wants to meet on Friday to talk about arrangements for the girls mean that she is giving up her M?

What should she do if she does not want to give up her M?

Tully, ITA agree with the others. OW is driving this bus. Do nothing, absolutely nothing, towards D if this is not what you want. If he wants it bad enough (and not just to appease OW by saying... see... I told her I wanted D) then he'll do what he has to.

I call major BS on the kidnapping threat too.

He is so foggy he can't see two feet in front of him.

Stay dark. It has served you well.

What is he trying to get tully to "back down" from?


Excuse me SC, but this is a big "Duuuuh". He wants tully to back down from what she has control over, herself, her actions, her children...he would be happy if she were a puppet doing everything he wanted, living in France, bending to every whim that comes his way.

But tully is in control of herself and her family. Is standing up for honesty and integrity. Don't get mired in the mud-slinging of a desperate, selfish, fogged out WS. Face the other way if need be. Concentrate on what is important to you...your children, your family, your life...

Tell your WH (through your intermediary) that you don't talk divorce, only reconciliation. If he wants to talk divorce then he should contact your solicitor. Plan B.

If I had a dollar for everytime my WH asked for the divorce, threatened the divorce, asked me to meet him to sign papers etc............I would be eating out a lot more

My WH asked for D papers last week so I emailed them to him alongwith the manuals on what to do to file etc. He hasn't mentioned it since then. I didn't fight him about it so he had nothing to gain.

It's hard if not impossible to rationally translate the words that come out of the wayward spouse.

Big Kahuna was all over my thread telling me I had given WH exactly what he wanted when he broke plan B and I caved and talked with him. They are after control. They don't like playing by your rules and want to bend them until they get you back where they write the rules.

Stay strong. Still have hope. Even if he files there is a chance. Even if you divorce there is a chance. Stay true to yourself and stay within your boundaries. You are not trying to control your WH by demanding NC - but you should be unwilling to discuss working on your marriage until there is NC because that is your boundary. It's to protect you, not punish you WH.

Tully, further to my last post to you, I would suggest you work at not focusing so heavily on your WH and being so reactive to him, and start working on yourself. I suspect this is harder for you in some ways because you're living in someone else's home in a kind of limbo, and because of that, you have a stronger need for your WH to co-operate and get the situation resolved, one way or another.

Just to get the WH business out of the way...he's lashing out in progressively more desperate and unpleasant ways, which is not that surprising. I told you the rollercoaster was about to get wild, remember? He doesn't seem to have acquired behavioural tools for conciliation or compromise, and this is how people without those tools act when they're thwarted. It will get worse. You'll just have to tough it out. You don't really have any other option.

And I'm far from convinced that all these histrionics are being driven by the OW. For one thing, his concentration is very heavily focused on YOU, and that's the last thing an OW usually wants to bring about. For another thing, having you out of the picture would be exactly what she wants, and I doubt very much whether she'd want to have him and fifty percent of four children belonging to another woman. No, I think this aggressive behaviour comes from his own wounded pride and inability to cope with not getting his own way.

What he's doing, he's doing. Get your legal ducks in a row, then leave him to it.

And start doing what this separation gives you space to do...work out who you are and what you REALLY want.

It's time to start asking yourself stuff like...

- what does a healthy marriage look like?
- where was my marriage unhealthy?
- what did I get out of the unhealthy aspects?
- did I tolerate unhealthy things and numb myself to them?
- was my own behaviour consistent with a healthy marriage?
- what are my boundaries?
- how should I expect to be treated by a loving, respectful spouse?


Believe me, Tully, the answer to these questions is NOT 'Everything in the marriage was peachy until OW came along." If you dig deep, you will start seeing where the structure of your marriage was not solid, because if it was, the affair wouldn't have had any chance to take root. These are PAINFUL questions, and they should be, because they ask you to be honest about yourself as well as your WH.

I think you've started that process, but it's hard to stick with it when you're feeling so hurt and let down. It can be helpful to work with a counsellor who can keep you on track and support you.

You may find that this was a healthyish marriage that was allowed to drift, or you may find that the conditions for health were never really there. But you can't know until you really think about it. And whether your marriage survives or not, you will be left with a much better foundation for future relationships and supporting your children as they grow into teenage and adulthood.

Keep swimming.

TA

Dear Tully,

I have never written to you but I have followed your story from the beginning. I am truly sorry that you find yourself in this situation. Your WH is acting in a most cruel and insensitive way. You do not deserve this.

I hope you forgive me for taking the liberty to offer you some advice as I' am concerned about the way this is developing.

I read about your WH's threats that he has a case against you for kidnapping. He is probably just bluffing but it worries me a bit. As TA has pointed out, your WH is progressively lashing out to you and it may get worse. He might do that just because he is angry and frustrated and wants to scare you. However, I think you should be prepared in case he is serious about this issue. It may be part of a strategy he has worked out with his lawyer to get a divorce on the terms that he wants.

I think you should very carefully consider whether you want to meet him at all to discuss the divorce on Friday. If you have any doubt or hesitation about a divorce, just wait. Don't take any decisions in haste. However, I think it is very important to find out where you stand legally with regard to the "kidnapping threat". You have to be able to protect yourself and the children in case he is not just bluffing. May I suggest that you discuss this with your solicitor asap and ask critical questions.

International family law is a specialized field and not many lawyers are familiar with it. I would specifically ask your attorney whether he is familiar with the "the Hague Convention of 25 October 1980 on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction " and its application and enforcement in France. Ask him whether this convention applies to your situation and whether your husband can invoke it after he writes you a letter stating that you have to return the children to their home ("residence habituelle") as he does not give permission to you to keep them in Ireland...

Good luck Tully, I greatly admire you.

(I 'm not a French lawyer but I used to practice law (not family law) in another European country before I became a SHM many years ago.)

It's not over until it's over. D papers have yet to be filed. If YOU want it to be over tully can't say I blame you but don't believe the words of WH until he backs it up with action. If he wants a D let him do the work. Even if you want a D at this point, let him do the work since he's the one pounding his chest and making threats. I would not meet with him Friday. The mediator can pass on his demand list to you and you can get back with him once you've had a chance to review it and offer a counter to anything you have exception with (which might be everything given WH's thinking.) Make sure that financial support is brought up so that WH see exactly what he's going to be paying for child support and alimony.


Yeah because he's full of [censored]. :RollieEyes:


There's was no way in the world I would have voluntarily agreed to joint custody if my H was still wayward. FWH would have been in for the battle of his life if he was dumb enough to think I'd trust my children with his warped behavior. What are your thoughts on custody tully?

As others have said, protect yourself from WH's cruelty. That's yet another reason to not go on Friday. I didn't find MB in time to understand the further destruction that perhaps I could have spared myself.

{{{{tully}}}}

Tully,

I'm sorry to hear this latest bit of news. I agree with some other posters that it still doesn't mean that this is over unless you want it to be. If you don't, then do as others suggested and make WH do all of the heavy lifting towards D. Don't do anything unless you absolutely have to. That said, I still think it would be prudent for you to at least speak to the solicitor and fill him/her in on the latest developments. Just make sure you and the kids are protected legally.

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