I think this is being taken out of context. I was trying to keep my answer short, so as not to get too long winded.

Anyway, the first line of the orginal pargraph where I brought that up was that my FWW was trying to pursue a long distance M between us. A "how about I work here in TX and you work there in KY, and we will fly back and forth and see each other." I never agreed to this. But she started doing it anyway, with a "it will just be a few weeks", all the while claiming she knew it wasn't going to be permanent, and that we were going to "fix" that. So after a few weeks, I said, this doesn't seem to be getting fixed. I got the its just for a few more weeks. (always, once this asssigment is done, once this deal closes, once I get done training my replacement, etc.) So, (for those that don't think I am in touch with reality), I realized that this was just a BS way to get what she was persuing. So I told her, I am not agreeing to a long distance M, and even though she says that is not what is happening, that was BS, that was exactly what was happening. I told her I was lonely, and a long distance M, was not going to help that, especially, given her nature and her past. So, since this (based upon her actions) was the best she was going to be able to do, I was filing for a divorce. She put in her resignation two weeks later and was home two weeks after that.

So, it is not that I wanted to be free to date again. It was the marriage was unacceptable. What made it unacceptable was that I was lonely.

My orginal answer was to a two part question. Why am I still married, and why did I let her come home. I am still married because she did not divorce me, and I did not need to be divorced from her. I let her come home, because as I posted, a) I told her I was not going to do a long distance M and if she did not want me to divorce her, she had to come home and b) I do not see how her coming home could make things (my M or my life) worse.

rprynne,

I don't think I've posted to you before, so excuse me if I barge in here.

I think you're saying that you consider the MB weekend a risky investment. As if going to the MB weekend is in and of itself a full commitment in the marriage. But I'm not sure that's the case. Can't you use the MB weekend as a really effective means to better assess your chances at marital success so you can finally decide whether or not to commit to your marriage?

(Someone please tell me if this would be an inappropriate use of the MB weekend.)

I don't think you are far off on your conclusions, but its not that I want people to tell me what I should do. I know what I want to do. I want to attempt recovery. I want to do that for a while and see if we can have a good marriage.

But I guess what I am asking (and I can tell by the responses that it is not possible) is how do I do that in a risk free way.

Which I know is a silly question, but I was hoping someone might have some insight that might motivate me. Because right now, I don't think I have the courage to expose myself to this again.

What you are asking is impossible, because your wife is a KNOWN RISK.

To have a risk free recovery you would have to divorce this wife and meet another better woman who is not of bad character and is caring and loving toward you enough NOT to cheat on you.

As long as you are keeping THIS PARTICULAR WIFE around, you will have nothing but risk and heartache. It is simply WHO SHE IS. Her NATURE. And you cannot go against nature.

Think for a few minutes on this series of questions and answers I extracted from your thread here. I re-ordered some of them and I removed extraneous comments:

“Would you be devastated if she left yet again? For whatever reason?”

Rp: Not devastated.


“You did say if she bailed again, you would not be devastated, right?”

Rp: Yeah.


“Why would you want to commit yourself to the hard work recovery requires while you are unsure if you want the M? “

Rp: I do not know if we can be happily married. So I want to find that out.


“So, you are looking for an M that is not what you had for the first say, 13 years?”

Rp: Correct again. Our M for the first 13 years was a sham.


“And if so, like "in a perfect world" the M would be what?”

Rp: I don't know.


“Why won't you go to a MB weekend?”

Rp: It’s like I said before, I do not want to invest if I'm going to get burned.


“ Why are you remaining married to her? Why did you let her come home?”

Rp: I let her come home because I didn't think she would come home...


“You can't see whether your wife wants to recover, even if she did only come home to avoid you divorcing her.”

Rp: I do not like the baggage of feeling like my FWW is with me because she was going to lose me. I would have preferred she was with me because she wanted to be with me.

Rp: I told her I was divorcing because I was lonely, I let her come back because it could not hurt.

Rp: Someone asked if I would be devastated if she left, and I said no. But I would be devastated if I buy into it again and get [censored] over.


Does this conversation built using your own words seem to converge towards an answer? An answer you already know?


IMO:

I think it is too late for you already, man. You are going to be devastated.

I think you should live close but apart and simply date for a year. You will discover some things about her you have never known. And you won’t like them. However, a disclaimer, living apart after an A is not in MB scripture unless there is a Plan B letter in effect and its terms haven’t yet been met.

I feel great empathy for your sitch right now. I remember when my wife wanted to come back. I was also very conflicted. But I felt I needed to live up to the conditions I stipulated in the Plan B letter when she met them. You know, if you do this I will do that…

So, if you have one, look at your Plan B letter. If you don't have one, draft the conditions part for one now and give it to her. See what she does.

It's okay. I appreciate the advice.


Not completely. Going to the MB weekend would make me hopeful. I do not want to be hopeful.

rprynne...

Do you even LIKE her at this point? What is your time together like? From the outside, I gotta say there doesn't look like much to bother saving...

You are one of the nicest guys around here...You deserve so much more than this...

I'm not sure what you are expecting to be honest...If you don't want to go to an MB weekend because that will make you "hopeful" then for goodness sakes what other plan do you have to fix this? "Limbo Hell" doesn't seem like a great address...I think I'd rather live on "Elm Street" than there...

Mrs. W

Yes, you are too nice to take on that huge RISK,, YOUR WIFE> The two difficult cats should be enough for you!!! LOL...

Aph - thanks.


I don't know. Maybe. What do you think?


Say more.


Thanks. Its similar to a plan B letter, but not the same.

Its not that I feel obligated to her to live up to some commitment.

Its more that I've been here four years, and people have said, you need her to be working the program, you need her to be home so you can get your 15 hours a week, you need her to be transaparent, you need her to end contact, etc. Now I feel like, okay, finally, got that done. Then I'm realizing, I don't have much more in the tank.

You sound just like Margie now. You aren't going to get anywhere unless you DO invest. Thats ridiculous to not be willing to ante up $2000 just to see if it might help things along. And then if it doesn't work you can divorce knowing you tried everything.

I just don't understand you, rprynne.

Yes I like her. We get along great. I also love her. Clearly not in the way I used to, and right now not in a way that I think is required for a good marriage, but still.


Ouch. I hate being nice


Mrs. W. I know it can be frustrating, but this is how I sort things out. I ask questions, listen to what other people say, answer there questions, etc. It gets me there eventually. I won't be in "Limbo Hell"

We've already covered so much.

Its not the money Mel. Gee Whiz.

Can't you tell I'm trying to work through some things here?

Look, I was hopeful when I found this place. Shared the concepts with my WW, then I was disappointed. I was hopeful when we started counciling with SH. Then I was disappointed. I was hopeful when we did this or that, or whatever, then I was dissappointed.

If I go to the MB thing, I'm going to be hopeful that it will help, it will make a difference. Just not sure that I want to sign up for what (inevitably) feels like might result in more disappointment.

That is not honest, rprynne. You have been in limbo hell for years.

You are asking the same questions you asked years ago, yet nothing changes. This is how you avoid making decisions. That is called conflict avoidance. Conflict avoiders claiming to be "thinking" things over - endlessly - so they never have to make a decision. That is exactly what you do.

Look, I was hopeful when I found this place. Shared the concepts with my WW, then I was disappointed. I was hopeful when we started counciling with SH. Then I was disappointed. I was hopeful when we did this or that, or whatever, then I was dissappointed.

Yes, maybe because your wife is a natural born cheater. Nothing will work for the long term. How can you change her.?

Lets look at the other extreme.

Lets assume she will always dissapointe meaning she will always want to cheat and will cheat on you in the future. Lets make that ASSUMPTION.

Then, what do you do?

Well, if you love her but know she is a cheater and always will be, adjust your thinking to accomodate that.

Set down some cheating rules:

1. You two will have an open marriage'
2. If she wants to cheat, or you want to, you must tell the other one BEFORE doing the cheating.
3. You both must always use protection with other folks and get exams afterwards.
4. You both must be sterile so no unwanted kids result from the cheating.
5. The cheating must be done AWAY from your home and marriage bed.

I think you are trying too hard to change HER THAT CANNOT BE CHANGED.

If you love her you have to accept her cheating!

Ah, the slow and methodical type...gotcha...So long as you know that you will eventually progress...Seems more like "slow & painful" to me, but I am more of a "rip the bandaid off lightening quick" sorta gal...


HA! Your secret is safe with me...I'll tell all the others what a "mean bastage" you are, how's that?


I'm not frustrated with you, rprynne...It just looks very painful to ME...You are a better gauge of what you can and cannot take...I do agree wholeheartedly with Mel though, you DO have to INVEST in order to know...

What I would do: Go to MT and say: "In order for me to stay in this marriage, it will take us going to an MB weekend and working the program." PERIOD. If she balks, you walk. Done deal.

I do have an advantage there that you don't have, of course...I happen to KNOW that if you work the program, the program works...

If you don't INVEST rprynne how will you know what to do? That part confuses me...Do you expect that some all encompassing love feeling is just gonna come along and bite you in the butt?

Mrs. W

rprynne, I've never posted to you before. I'm hanging on your thread now though. You remind me a lot of me. Wonder if anybody else feels that way? :RollieEyes:

Our situations aren't completely similar but then again, yes they are.

rprynne, why do you suppose we've ordered this for ourselves? Why do we keep on signing up for it? What's the pay-off? There really isn't one! Do we think we don't deserve better? (NO - I know I deserve better. I forgot it for a minute though) Are we afraid? (Yes for me) Stubborn? Naive? Door-mat-ish?

GroundHogDay. You & me both, we're pretty much right where we started, years ago, it seems.

Just sayin'

Here is another idea. Sometimes it helps to try and look five years into your future. Our lives are precious and short. YOUR life is precious!!!

If you keep this cheaterwife around, what will the results be five years from now:

1. She will cheat a few more times
2. You will fail to leave her therefore will not meet anyone else
3. You may still have the difficult cats
4. You will be dealing with the pain of her past, present, and future cheating episodes
5. You will be spending $$ on counseling, time on getting advice, all to avoid her cheating again.
6. Your time, money, and effort to try and end her cheating will all be wasted.
7. You will be five years older and have nothing real but the cats to fall back on.

I'll respectfully disagree. You do not know what decisions I have made.

Conflict avoider? Did I not expose? Do I not confront my WW? Was there ever a time my WW was in contact that I did not immediately bring it up? Did I not go to MC with SH? With others? Did I not change all my credit cards, cancel all my joint accounts, move out of my house? Did I not get the divorce papers? Did my WW not send a NC letter?

You can be peeved that I did not divorce her, but don't lump me in with the do nothings. And don't try to call me a conflict avoider.

Perhaps.

I know that nothing has changed in 5 years. NOTHING. You are still in the same place as when you arrived.

It might be believable if you had been in limbo for 6 months, but not 5 years. Fiddling around the edges might look like busy work to you, but it doesn't change the fact that you have made NO DECISIONS and nothing has changed in 5 years. That is CLASSIC conflict avoidance, rprynnee. That is someone who lives a life of LIMBO.