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Tully - the response: "A soft answer turneth away wrath" comes up again and again as I read this.
I remember when Kasey and I were separated, I would only meet him in the presence of a minister or a therapist. I would listen to him rant and rave about all the conditions I'd have to meet for HIM to take ME back.
I'd listen to it all. Without responding or interrupting until he was finished.
Then I'd softly respond: "I don't need to be married that badly." and then I'd wait for him to think on that. For the first few weeks, he didn't get it. He couldn't hear it. He was too outraged that I'd take control of my own choices and be silent to his rage. It was a six month process.
But the soft answer got through. Eventually. It was something he couldn't fight with.
The recommended soft answer for Tully: You underestimated the level of trust I had in you. And you underestimate the betrayal of that trust. And you underestimate my capacity to forgive you when you finally want my trust back to the degree that it was for 19 years.
Then listen to see if the soft answer got through. If not, wait a few weeks, try again.
But the most important part Tully. I truly didn't need to be married to Kasey any more. I had made that shift to indifference. My only reason at the time for considering reconciliation was that my love was buried very deep by my Plan B and my conviction that I WOULD NEVER go back to that place of emotional bondage again where I could be abused. Never. Ever.
Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1 The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"? The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!" If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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KA:
Good advice. I tend to talk too much, repeat myself over and over (and over and over), and raise my voice. I will work on practicing a soft voice IF I ever speak with WH again.
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BR, that was HOURS ago. I said I was sorry. I said I was not viewing it correctly. I said they could use my posts as "what NOT to post". I learned NOT to post things like this again and I won't do it again.
Do you want me to erase them all? (I will) I didn't see your post about what not to post until I posted my response to you. You don't have to erase, but if you would, I will too. Tully needs support and truth as well but I don't think what you posted is true as TA point out in her post. I know you have never been a BS Stella so your mindset is different than most. However, your comments would make any BS feels bad and that's the last thing tully needs at the moment.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I was only able to delete a few of them, sorry. The rest are stuck. Cant edit them.
Last edited by Stellakat; 01/24/09 01:15 PM.
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You can ask the admin to delete/edit or maybe they will just get lost in the thread over time. Thanks for making the effort though.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Hello All, (what are you doing here, J? ) And mindshare, she's not the one who had the accident but she just got Tinternet for her birthday and she's going mad on it.
Last night's meeting didn't go well. He was mad that my brother was there and had no propostition. He is extremely critical of me and everything I do is up for blame, even that I bought a car (indication of putting down roots) This morning he called around very angry and accused me of lying to him on two points the previous night but luckily my brother who was there last night happened to also be in the house this morning and confirmed that I had no lied. He is so capable of twisting the truth. I made a last offer of reconciliation but he deosn't want anything to do with me. He is bullying me to go back to France with the girls and says that he will charge me with kidnapping if I don't.
I honestly can't see him coming back from this. I think he will stay in this self-defensive mode even after the A is over (and I know it's alive and kicking) because he can't face up to his responsibilities and culpability.
Got to run.
Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.
Maya Angelou
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Not surprised yesterday was a flop. WH is angry and defensive. He can't see straight. Of course he was mad your brother was there. With him there, you'd have a witness to his bullying and he couldn't corner you like he wanted.
Can't wait to see the kidnapping charges. :RollieEyes:
WH can still come back from this tully but it's his choice. If and when is totally up to him. Since WH is against American counseling would he be willing to go to a counselor there? Even if is not marital counseling per se would he be willing to go in the name of trying to make a D easier on the girls (since that was his big to do)? I don't know if the Harleys could recommend a counselor there or if you could do the leg work and find one that holds similar views. It's worth a try and the worst he can say is no.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I read your h,s e-mail and just wanted you to know that we are probably m'd to the same person. Exactly the same situation younger ow and the same reaction at D day and beyond.
Your h said
"I do think you are (still) over-reacting to it. I think lots of couples go through it, and forgive
My hs words were
Most people would take this in their stride.
Who are these people ?
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Quote: "Who are these people ?"
Well, they are the "you-know-who's" who hail origionally from the country of La-la Land. (You know, right next to the foggy country of Selfishland"!)
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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They are the people in movies and in the soaps. :RollieEyes:
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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My WH says "Everybody does it." And married people "are all miserable." And those that don't leave their spouses are "hypocrites."
Hummm... he used to defend marriage. He even attacked former BIL who did the same thing.
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Oh c'mon! Even Erica Kane has more morals than that! 
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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we are probably m'd to the same person Poor you, Myopia. It's tough, isn't it.
Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.
Maya Angelou
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Hi everyone, I haven't been here so much lately because I am trying to focus as much as I can on making life better for me and the girls. I try not to talk too long on the phone about this issue and as little as I can while the girls are around. I spoke to my solicitor today and I think I will go back to France next week for a few days to meet her, to pick up things from our house and to meet up with friends who I ran out on 3 months ago. I got another email from WH and I wanted to ignore it but my solicitor said that I need to reply and document my offer on Saturday to reconstruct. It's horrible at the moment. Over the weekend WH told the girls that he would like us all to go back to France and that they would alternate each week between the two of us but they would keep their school and friends etc. He never had a great grip on our finances which I always managed but he's lost the plot here. The problem is that the girls think this is a great idea and got annoyed with me last night for not agreeing. Here's what I wrote: WH,
Indeed you have changed immensely, to the point that neither I, nor my family, recognise you. They have lost the respect they all held for you but you could earn it back at any time if you turn around and make the right decisions.
On Saturday morning I made a proposition to you: for you to tell OW to leave your life and to never contact you in any way for the rest of your life. I believe this is possible if you truely wish it. Then you could ask the personnel department to allow you to take the five months holidays you have on your Compte Epargne Temps and go to marriage guidance counselling with me in an attempt to reconstruct our marriage for the sake of our four wonderful little girls who love both of us deeply and who want more than anything for us to be reunited as a good loving family. That you have refused this offer indicates to me that you believe that you are in love with OW and can have a better life with her, especially when you say below that 'there is nothing wrong with the basics of our relationship'..
If divorce is your wish as you have stated several times now, you must understand my position. I am almost 43 years old, a foreigner who speaks French well but is not bilingual, a stay-at-home mother who has not worked outside the home for the past 7 years and who has no pension. My experience (in a company that has since gone out of business and as a self-employed person working with Irish exporting companies) and my Irish qualifications are not well recognised in France and given the current economic climate I am not sure that a single mother with four small children has a lot of opportunies available to her.
It is naive, WH, to imagine that money is not a matter for serious consideration in our situation.Capital is not the only issue to be addressed in our financial analysis. There is also the matter of income for as long as the girls are dependant on us financially and my own financial security for the rest of my life. To date your salary allowed the six of us to live in relative comfort but we did not save much. I do not see how that same salary can now support two houses and even a possible future family (OW is only 28 years old after all). You are asking me to trust you to provide for me for as long as I live. When I made the decision to stop working 7 years ago to look after our family and support you in your career, I trusted you then but I made a big mistake, You have let me down and I would be a fool to place my future in your hands. I want control over my own destiny and not take the scraps that you deign to throw at me. Not only have you done awful things to me but your capacity to auto-justify them,is frightening, for examle, how you justify hitting me or booking into a double room in the Hotel with OW for a week AFTER we had come to an agreement to reconstuct. You still believe that you were perfectly entitled to do these things so how do I know that you won't feel entitled to cut me off from money at some stage in the future? As for being your friend, I will do my best to maintain a positive, civil relationship with you for the sake of our daughters but for the moment, I cannot envisage the possibility of being your 'friend', at least in so far as I define friendship.
In the light of your declaration on Saturday of your intention of pressing child abduction charges on me, I have passed the name of your solicitor, ABC, to my own solicitor, XYZ in order to reassure myself.
I changed solicitors because I felt more of an affinity with Me XYZ than with the solicitor I spoke to before I left France but she is giving me the same legal advice as the previous solicitor.
Tully
Last edited by tully; 01/26/09 05:18 PM.
Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.
Maya Angelou
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It's horrible at the moment. Over the weekend WH told the girls that he would like us all to go back to France and that they would alternate each week between the two of us but they would keep their school and friends etc. He never had a great grip on our finances which I always managed but he's lost the plot here. The problem is that the girls think this is a great idea and got annoyed with me last night for not agreeing. I am sure (NOT) that this would work really well with the schools. Yeah, they would love it if they had students who were there for one week.....then, off to school in another country.....then, back for a week. This is, according to the norms in the US, TOTALLY ABSOULUTELY AND BEYOND THE SHADOW OF ALL DOUBT, NOT WORKABLE.
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tully,
Your tenacity and willingness to stand up for yourself remind me SO much of mimi(Plan B Queen). I wish she would weigh in here.
You are doing so wonderfully. I am sorry that things are at the place they are right now. I do share Neak's view though that I have hope BECAUSE your WH is so fog-bound at this point. He is so TOTALLY lost in Fantasy land that at some point real life will HAVE to intrude and at that point he may SUDDENLY AND SHOCKINGLY realize what he has done.
Praying for that day.
Blessings,
WH2LE
BS(Me)-57
FWH-54
Married-5/26/2001(2nd for me, 1st for him)
DS-30
DD-27
D-Day-05/31/2007
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Cinderella, in fact what he wants is that I move back to France and that we both live close to the school so that the girls always go to the same school. I am not convinced that this is a good way for children. I think they need more stability and reassurance and I think lots of issues can fall between the cracks with this system even if it does mean that the children get more equal time with their parents. It is becoming more and more popular though.
Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.
Maya Angelou
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WH2LE, hopefully it will be soon because I won't hold out for much longer and if he does much more damage many other relationships will be irreparably damaged.
Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.
Maya Angelou
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WH hit you? Then he justified it? What's that about tully? Sounds like WH is trying to be the Disneyland Dad and is presenting the girls his solutions like it's all fun, fun, fun and they won't notice that their family is destroyed. :RollieEyes: Did WH literally tell you to trust that he'd provide for you in future? 
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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for examle, how you justify hitting me WHAT???????????? I missed this entirely on the first read-through. Tully, did he REALLY hit you???????? Tully, there can be NO justification for hitting you. NOT EVER!!!!! Not even if YOU were the WS. I guess I am prepared to say "RUN"!!!!! Run if he has hit you at any time. I wonder now about the cultural aspect here. I have been trying to ignore the possibility that he has some cultural notion that an occasional mistress-on-the-side is perhaps not only acceptable but preferable. Gag. If he can hit you and NOT be horrified at himself, then I wonder if he isn't too far gone to ever come back. Too detached, too entitled, too full of himself as the center of all that matters. Cheat on you and then HIT you and THEN justify it?????  I am wishing I could hug you. Blessings to you and those 4 precious girls who need to see that NO MAN can ever be allowed to hit them and get away with it. Oh, and if you DO pursue divorce, you can now add physical abuse to the adultery charge.
WH2LE
BS(Me)-57
FWH-54
Married-5/26/2001(2nd for me, 1st for him)
DS-30
DD-27
D-Day-05/31/2007
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