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The beginnings of this saga are on the Recovery Thread. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...oard=30&fpart=all&gonew=1#UNREAD My WW and I have been doing well since New Year’s Day. On that day, she took me by the hands and called it a new year, a new day, and a time for us to work on our marriage. Since then, her behavior has been exemplary, with both of us putting in extra time and effort to work on each other’s EN’s and reconnecting with each other. We had plenty of discussions of the A in the seven weeks since D-day, but there were plenty of things still left to talk about. We have wildly divergent work schedules, but a mutual weekend at the end of this month, so we agreed to table things until then. Yesterday I had a little time, so I took a trip to the courthouse in the hometown of the OM to double-check on the date of his divorce, since that info would help when I have that heart-to-heart. What I found – or didn’t find – shocked me. There was no record of his divorce in that county, or any other in the state. I had met him twice before any of the EA or PA stuff started, and he’d talked about with some passion about how tough it was to go through a divorce. I checked the county we live in, which is in a different state, and the only thing he’s in the books for is a traffic ticket that he paid last week. No divorce here, either. I had never questioned his marital status, and my WW said they never talked about it during their trysts, which she says were at his house. Now it leaves me wondering just what I should do. She was quite forthcoming about details of how they worked to get time together without me becoming suspicious. Most likely, the OM is separated at the very least, but it’s also possible that I’ve been lied to some more. What’s my next move? I have ten days to gather information. I already know way more about the A and the OM than my WW suspects, but this marital status thing is huge. What did she know? Was he lying to her about it? I can’t afford to hire a PI. Do I go dumpster diving, which will be very difficult, or are there other ways I can check on things? Things have been going so well that this has me completely floored. There has been NC since 1/1, and our time together has been outstanding. We’ve seemingly begun to mend things in a big way, and now this little bomb. Need input, and need it quick. ---- Me: BH (49) Her: WW (47) Sons: 23, 22 EA 3/07?-12/08 PA 6/07-10/08 D-Day 11/12/08 NC established 1/1/09 A good start to what could be a great '09. Or not.
Last edited by AheadOfTheCurve; 01/21/09 03:57 AM. Reason: Messed up link
BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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You could just say that there is no court record of the OM's divorce to the WW.
OM could of been married and D'd in another county or state.
Where and how long has the OM live for his adult life?
If there is NC. Why the need to dig up dirt on the OM?
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We had verifiable NC for 6 months and if my H had lied about OW and OWH being divorced to avoid exposure it would have been a deal breaker for me.
My then-WH acted like the man-of-my-dreams (like Ahead's W seems to be acting) while we were reading Not--"Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass.
Ahead and his wife are reading the same book according to his recovery thread linked above.
I didn't know it at the time but I needed to expose to OWH in order to begin rebuilding trust, even though we had had 6 months of veriable NC. We seemed to be doing OK but I needed this missing piece to begin recovery, probably due to my 4 D-days when WH had gone further underground while earning an Oscar, Golden Globe and Emmy as a remorseful FWH.)
NC or no NC, if OM is/was D'd, Ahead needs to know. If he's still married or separated and his W knew/knows but was/is lying to avoid exposure, he needs to know.
If she is lying, he has to decide what he wants to do. And he needs help strategizing if he chooses to save his M.
That's one reason he's here on GQII instead of on the Recovery Forum. Did I come close in my perceptions, Ahead?
Wishing you the best,
Ace
Last edited by _Ace_; 01/21/09 09:35 AM.
FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
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I can’t afford to hire a PI. Do I go dumpster diving, which will be very difficult, or are there other ways I can check on things?
Things have been going so well that this has me completely floored. There has been NC since 1/1, and our time together has been outstanding. We’ve seemingly begun to mend things in a big way, and now this little bomb.
Need input, and need it quick. Ahead, it is not uncommon that adulterers lie about being married. Your wife may or may not know. She may know and might be telling you he is divorced so you won't tell his wife. It might also be true that their affair caused a separation. Either way, I would find his wife and give her a call. Obviously, this is something she has to know. The fastest way I can suggest is to call his home #, disguising your # with *67 and see who answers. If a woman answers, tell her about the affair. If you live close to OM, you can get in a car and drive over there. We have wildly divergent work schedules, but a mutual weekend at the end of this month, so we agreed to table things until then. Does this prevent you from spending 15 hours a week together, meeting each others needs? This is what is required to sustain a romantic relationship.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I can think of the following possibilities:
1. He's never been married
2. He was divorced years ago in another galaxy far, far away
3. He is still married but lied to your wife
4. He is still married and your wife knows and she lied to you
The only scenarios that should concern you at all are 3 and 4.
If 3 is the case, you'd need to expose to OM's W but this may not be possible due to lack of information about her.
If 4 is the case, your W needs to work on openness and honesty.
Have you checked intelius? It will list people OM lived with and different addresses and when. You might be able to figure things out from there. I think there's a fee related to it - it will show you some teaser info and then you pay to get more detailed info.
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He can also look up his name in directory assistance and see if a womans name pops up. I use www.anywho.com. And like turtlehead suggested, you can try www.intellius.com. I don't think it is that expensive to hire a P.I. to find out if you can't find it this way.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I already know way more about the A and the OM than my WW suspects, but this marital status thing is huge. What did she know? Was he lying to her about it? This is the same deal with me... I knew the guys name before I asked her what his name was. Fortunately, she gave me the correct answer. Just be cool about things. If she doesn't answer something according to what you think is the truth, don't jump on it. Try to figure out what the descripency is before you do anything. Sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do. One thing is for sure, I will not divulge my snooping techniques.
WH - 44
FWW - 50
Married - 2005
d-day - 12/4/2008
NC since 12/13/2008
Her d-day 4/22/2009
Divorcing.
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Is it this good this fast, or am I kidding myself OP, I would verify. Yes it does seem like too good to be true that your wife's affair that went on for so long now wants you back so quickly. Has she shown any remorse ? Does she feel disgusted for what she has done to you ? When you talk to her daily, do you really believe that there is no more contact ? Also keep in mind NC has been in place for less than 3 weeks. I know everyone is different but i thought it generally takes months for women to come out of the fog. My wife is coming out slowly but it is V E R Y S L O W.
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We'll take 'em in order here.....
Ace:
I'm following your advice on changing threads, and yes you've pretty much nailed what I need to do.
MelodyLane:
I know the OM's W/XW's name and where she works. Calling the home number is something I'm considering. I just have to come up with a phone number that can't be traced. I'm fairly sure they're separated at the very least. As for the 15 hours, we're making extra effort to make sure that is a minimum for each week. So far, so good there.
Turtlehead:
I tried Intelius. It sucked. The info it gave me was wrong. Reverse Phone Detective is much better, but it won't help me here.
Roy Batty:
Trust me. I'm taking this one slow and careful. I don't want to jump to a wrong conclusion and wreck something that's working out the way I want it to.
Optin1:
We're not talking about feelings right now. We're saving that for the end of the month when we can do it all at once. As for the NC, I have no doubts. Everything checks. As for the fog, I think she's so angry at him, the sun came out and the fog lifted fast. Everything I told her he was is being confirmed. We'll find out.
----
Me: BH (49)
Her: WW (47)
Sons: 23, 22
EA 3/07?-12/08
PA 6/07-10/08
D-Day 11/12/08
NC established 1/1/09
A good start to what could be a great '09.
Or not.
BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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Glad you're still seeking, Ahead. Optin1:
We're not talking about feelings right now. We're saving that for the end of the month when we can do it all at once. As for the NC, I have no doubts. Everything checks. As for the fog, I think she's so angry at him, the sun came out and the fog lifted fast. Everything I told her he was is being confirmed. We'll find out.
---- In my case, waiting was disastrous. Is there any way you can make the changes needed to discuss your heart-2-heart THIS weekend? If she is lying and has gone waaaaay underground, that added week could make it that much more difficult to overcome. If she is telling the truth, her reaction when you seek to speed things up MIGHT be another positive sign for you. When my WH said that he was willing to do anything to help me heal and showed it in his actions and attitude, he earned his "F" as in "former" WH. It would seem like she would want this to be sooner than later, if she's telling the truth. If your wife says and SHOWS that she's willing to do anything to help you heal (including last-minute changing of plans for this weekend), then you MIGHT know if you're kidding yourself or not. JMVHO. Ace
FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
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Ace:
No. Next weekend is perfect. We still have one son at home, who's taking off to another city for the weekend to go job hunting. We both have Saturday and Sunday off, which will give us time to handle with what we must without having to face other people until we have our acts together.
As for underground, the feeling I get would be that if he was underground, it would be okay by her.
I could be wrong. I'll find out. And if I'm wrong, this is probably over, anyway. I have my limits.
----
Me: BH (49)
Her: WW (47)
Sons: 23, 22
EA 3/07?-12/08
PA 6/07-10/08
D-Day 11/12/08
NC established 1/1/09
A good start to what could be a great '09.
Or not.
BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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Another thing you could try is to go to your county tax assessor's website and look up his records. In our county you can search by address or by owner name and it's free. If he owns the house with someone else, it will show up on the record.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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princessmeggy:
That's not going to work either. The county he lives in isn't exactly that up to date. I'm going to do a little more digging, but I don't think I'll be able to get much more in the way of evidence on this matter anytime soon.
If anyone else has any ideas, I'm all ears.
----
Me: BH (49)
Her: WW (47)
Sons: 23, 22
EA 3/07?-12/08
PA 6/07-10/08
D-Day 11/12/08
NC established 1/1/09
A good start to what could be a great '09.
Or not.
BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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I know the OM's W/XW's name and where she works. Calling the home number is something I'm considering. I just have to come up with a phone number that can't be traced. I'm fairly sure they're separated at the very least. If anyone else has any ideas, I'm all ears. Do you have a friend who's phone caller ID is "restricted"? If so, maybe you could borrow it for this call. If not and you have a land-line, can you call the phone company and change your phone to "restricted"? That way you could call their home phone to find what you need to know and change it back after, if you want. Could you pay cash for a Trac Fone, use it for this call and then throw it away? How 'bout an old fashioned pay phone....if you can find one.  As a last resort, you might just call her at work and tell her you know that her husband had an A with your wife and you're willing to give her any information she might want. Then see how she responds. Hopefully, you'll hear "who cares, we've been divorced for years" or something similar. Still wishing you the best, Ace
FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
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I know the OM's W/XW's name and where she works. Calling the home number is something I'm considering. I just have to come up with a phone number that can't be traced. I'm fairly sure they're separated at the very least. As for the 15 hours, we're making extra effort to make sure that is a minimum for each week. So far, so good there. All you have to do is dial *67 and it will be disguised. You can practice by calling your home phone from your cell or vice versa.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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MelodyLane:
Right now, there's not a lot I can do. And to be quite honest, the past three weeks with my FWW have been absolutely amazing. Things get better day by day. When we were eating lunch, I happened to look up, and the way she was looking at me took me back 25 years. The two of us are connecting in ways we haven't done since we first began dating. It feels like we're starting over, except that we know where we want to go, and where we never want to go to again.
The Big Talk is now just a few days away. Rather than mess things up and do any LB'ing, I'm going to put all this aside for now and concentrate on the "bank deposits."
Right now, those deposits dwarf anything the bailout has promised. I know things will get a little dicey next weekend, but I'm getting more hopeful by the day. There's no chance things have gone underground -- she's not that good an actor. Nobody is.
I know this is going to be a roller coaster, but this part of the ride is too good. I'll need to remember it when the next dip happens.
----
Me: BH (49)
Her: FWW (47)
Sons: 23, 22
EA 3/07?-12/08
PA 6/07-10/08
D-Day 11/12/08
NC established 1/1/09
A good start to what could be a great '09.
BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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"There's no chance things have gone underground -- she's not that good an actor. Nobody is."
Not true. WS's in A's are EXPERT actors and liars. Keep your eyes and ears open and verify what you are seeing.
I could be wrong, but to me your posts are starting to look like you would like to just "stuff the A" in the past and deny anything that might be going on.
Best wishes though.
AM
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Not true. WS's in A's are EXPERT actors and liars. Keep your eyes and ears open and verify what you are seeing. I would slightly disagree with you on the "EXPERT actors" term. Yes they are actors, but not necesarily expert. Unless someone is a total sociopath, people get sloppy when they commit a crime. If a person is looking for the signs... they will detect the deception. I had so many signs that were thrown at me... I just chose to ignore them. Now I'm much more vigilant. If AheadoftheCurve can see a difference in his FWW for the better... things are most likely better. If his FWW is somehow conducting a secret lifestyle, there is no way she well be able to continue to put the current level of energy into her marriage. She would burn out... get depressed, withdrawn and all that.
WH - 44
FWW - 50
Married - 2005
d-day - 12/4/2008
NC since 12/13/2008
Her d-day 4/22/2009
Divorcing.
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Hi Ahead,
In your Recovery forum thread, you said:She had been in a really horrible, brooding mood all day long, so we had a couple of beers and I asked her what was bothering her. That’s when she confessed to the A......
.....At the meeting, the OM accepted the statement that WW was going to try to save the M and that the A was over. He didn’t argue the point, just said he’d be there if things didn’t work out. Okay, that was a start.
Problem was, the texting continued. When I called her on it, she got angry. According to script so far, isn’t it? I wrote a letter, ostensibly addressed to the OM, and was willing to send it, but it was pitched for her ears. She read it, got emotional, and said that that A was over. Again. Right.
Of course, I was still checking phone and bank records. The texting stopped and I felt better, but about a week later I found out she’d gotten a prepaid cell phone when she did an account replenishment out of our bank account. Oops.
That led to another session, but this one was more productive. She was still in her fog, but I believe it began to lift at that point. She made a couple of disparaging off-the-cuff comments about the OM during our talk. And I had the satisfaction of taking the prepaid phone and drowning it in dishwater and destroying it with a hammer and [censored]. During a break in our discussions, I went to the mall and bought her a nice ring for Christmas.
During this time, I was working on Plan A, trying to fix all the LB’s and meet her EN’s. We also went through what has been termed “hysterical bonding” by some pretty much every other day. Since my main EN is SF, and I hadn’t been getting much S, much less SF for a while, it was welcome, even with the medical limitations.
You sent her with a trusted friend to deliver an NC statement in person but OM left the door open.
Being in withdrawal, she needed continued fixes with the pre-paid cell, but you busted her after she had fooled you for another week. During your talk, she said things you perceived were disparaging to OM.
You bought her a nice ring for Christmas....maybe this signaled to her that she was valuable to you, the A was indeed over, and possibly she was thankful that you were willing to forgive her and start over, which was further proven by hysterical bonding. Right?
Then yesterday you said:MelodyLane:
Right now, there's not a lot I can do. And to be quite honest, the past three weeks with my FWW have been absolutely amazing. Things get better day by day. When we were eating lunch, I happened to look up, and the way she was looking at me took me back 25 years. The two of us are connecting in ways we haven't done since we first began dating. It feels like we're starting over, except that we know where we want to go, and where we never want to go to again.
The Big Talk is now just a few days away. Rather than mess things up and do any LB'ing, I'm going to put all this aside for now and concentrate on the "bank deposits."
Right now, those deposits dwarf anything the bailout has promised. I know things will get a little dicey next weekend, but I'm getting more hopeful by the day. There's no chance things have gone underground -- she's not that good an actor. Nobody is.
I know this is going to be a roller coaster, but this part of the ride is too good. I'll need to remember it when the next dip happens.
I truly hope you are right and that you and your wife are the exception to the rule, truly ahead of the curve as infidelity recoveries go.
Please realize, however that your amazing recovery could be a fluffy aberration, especially if she is covering up the fact that her 'commitment to you' is merely an attempt to buy her time. Time for what? To justify that she is making every effort to re-bond with you (so she can say she gave it her best effort), but still intending to keep her options open with OM if it doesn't work out with you. Her disparaging remarks about OM may have been made to throw you off, too.
I said all that to say this:
If you begin your heart-2-heart without finding out if she lied about OM's being D'd, and she did lie and is still lying by omission, your temporal joy will be headed for that devastating crash you alluded to when you first posted but you won't know it until the collision occurs.
There is something you can do to avoid that before your talk, and it does not need to cause LBs to burst your present recovery bubble.
I know there may be landlines in some remote parts of the country don't have the *67 anonymity feature. But there are other ways you can find out before your big talk.
It seems like your enjoy now, find out later (denial) might bring you present rewards, but please consider seeking the truth today so that you can possibly deal with any discrepancies now and enjoy the fruits of your labor for your entire future.
INVHO, you will enhance your chances of that future including more of what you're presently experiencing if you confirm OM's status today. If he is NOT D'd, exposure to OMW will have to be a part of your Big Talk....but the only way you'll know is if you call first.
I hope you prove me wrong, Ahead but I feel I need to offer my similar experiences with suggestions for you to consider so that you can possibly avoid my devastating errors. Please think about it.
Wishing you the best,
Ace
FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
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Ace:
She fooled me for 16 months because I wasn't looking for anything. Now I know, and in case you're wondering, I'm still monitoring everything. Unless she can clone herself, NC is in place.
She had to get her ring re-sized. It came back yesterday, and we picked it up together. A really nice moment.
I told her a week or so ago that I have no reservations about working on the R and our M, and she asked if I was sure. I said I was, but I get the feeling she thinks she's still got a bomb to drop on me. On the other hand, I have an active imagination, and I already know a lot of stuff that she's not aware of, so that bomb may be a dud. Or it may not be. So, I'm still doing research and keeping up with things.
As for finding out for sure about the OM status, I'll work on that next week. Maybe I can nail it down by Wednesday.
I'm taking your words very seriously. You've already walked down this bumpy road, and I'd be a fool to ignore your advice.
----
Me: BH (49)
Her: FWW (47)
Sons: 23, 22
EA 3/07?-12/08
PA 6/07-10/08
D-Day 11/12/08
NC established 1/1/09
A good start to what could be a great '09.
Or not.
BH 52
FWW 50
S26 S24
EA 3/07-1/09
PA 5/07-10/08
NC finally established after eight false starts: 1/23/09
Final Version of Events 6/09
In a solid Recovery, and lucky beyond belief.
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