Thank you SO much everyone. You're a great bunch of people that I am honoured to be involved with.

Right, the story continues....

Son got up in front of magistrates and was given another 100 hours cs with no fine. The magistrates were very understanding and realised what he was going through and thanked me and W for attending. It's shook son up, but that will have done him good, he was alone in a police cell staring at a possible custodial sentence. That part is now over.

With regards to the letter, well even though I didn't manage to get any sleep, I did a lot of thinking and threw the letter in the bin. I went to W house to pick her up to go to court. She was up and ready so we had a brew. Got talking and I felt the need to tell her that BFF had crossed too many boundaries now. I told her that if she EVER butted into my R with my W and family or involved herself in our children again, there would be dire consequences. She was of course noticably taken aback. She started to defend BFF and I just cut her off. I told here that there was NO excuse for her getting involved in someone else's family and that I NEVER wanted to hear from or about her again. W then started on me, accusing me of mind games and making her feel guilty for what she had done, and why should she have to answer to me?. Why did I ask her the other day what she had been up to, she has her own life now, so what was all that about?. At that point I stood up, told her there was no point in talking bullcrap, said "see you at the court" and stormed out of her house.

She eventually made it to the court and started talking about things again. Repeating the 'mind games' and 'messing with my head' story. I told her that there were NO games involved and I had never been as serious about anything in my life before. I told her pretty much what I had put in the letter, but to her face. She then started to cry. The she got angry and mentioned BFF again. I stopped her and asked her, honestly, if son not phoning her was a problem to her. She said "not really, I think it was more of a problem to BFF". So, there you have it, BFF influencing MY W and R with her own problems and attitudes. I told W this. This was all before the court hearing.

More things were said, some nice, some hurtful, we were both very upset with the whole situation obviously. After the court hearing, W and I were waiting for son to come out, I took hold of her by the shoulders, looked her straight in the eye and said "promise me 2 things, 1. that you will be happy and 2. that you will stop feeling guilty. You did something that you felt you HAD to do and we will all deal with it in our own way" I kissed her on her forehead, then stood back and smiled. Thankfully that seemed to settle her down a bit. Son came out, we went to our cars and then all went over to other son to let him know how things had gone.

W left 1st to go see her Mum, I stopped her before she went and asked her what we were going to do, talk or not talk to each other. she said "whatever you want to do". I told her that I wanted to keep talking to her because I missed not talking but I was afraid that I may say something to hurt her again. she told me to only talk about the present then and NOT the past. I agreed and then started to fill up. She said "don't do that please". I just said I couldn't help it as I loved her. She smiled and left.

So, there we go, another LONG post, but you all know how things went. I apologise to all those that I have told to be strong and not give in, to back off and not pressurise the S. I think with all the emotions going on over the last 12 hours though, I have a teeny tiny excuse. (forgive me, I know it was bad )

What I am going to do now, is what I said, carry on talking and being friends with W unless I start to hurt her again, then I will back off completely. I will get on with my life, move on and 'Live like she is never coming back, but love her like she will be back tomorrow'.

What I find surprising is that after ALL I said about BFF, W still wants to be friends with me. That is more of a shock to me than anything.

Thanks again for listening guys and gals, and for being there with you're support. I know some of you will disagree with my actions, some may agree. I went with my gut on this one though.

Take Care people

Cat, This friendship has been ongoing now for 2 years and they don't see each other as much as a couple in a 'normal' relationship. I can't see her EVER feeling abused or controlled by BFF. She tells me that she is her BEST friend and that she has ALWAYS been there for her.

My W knows that I think she has become a mini-me (love that term, that's her name from now on!) I have told her many times over the last 2 years and so have our 2 boys. She has always denied it and still does.

It's not an easy one to work on. Can't expose, no point, can't become the 'better man', can't explain to W what is going on.

All I can do I suppose is what I have done and tell W my boundaries and what I expect and stick to them. Namely, no more intervention from BFF in our R or family. There will be though, but without my knowledge. Maybe what I said will sink in.

Well, what I meant by that was that, if she truly lives more and more in BFF's shadow, each day will become increasingly more miserable, til she wakes up one day and wonders how she ever got to that point. Because what she's doing is giving up herself. Allowing BFF to dictate her thoughts, opinions and feelings. No one can do that without becoming unhappy.

Cat,

I understand you now, thanks.

You are right, W last night just sat there and let BFF dictate the conversation. NEVER seen her like that before. She was just a shell, a nobody.

I told her that today, I said I felt extremely sad seeing her like that. She told me that I was upset because she was not what I wanted her to be. I told her that I wouldn't mind what she was as long as she became 'something'.

Silva,

You said

How noble! So she can hurt you, bring you to tears and you are supposed to accept that and NOT show any emotions????? So you are reinforcing that what she did is really alright, that everything she does is YOUR FAULT???? Is that really what you want?


Silva, something is very wrong here. I am not saying you are or were perfect, but I am saying what she has done is abhorent. Yet, she skates because it is "your fault". I am not suggesting retribution or anything of the sort. I am suggesting that you can be her friend, but you MUST BE HONEST. Honest with yourself and with her.

"Friends" don't treat people as she is and has been treating you.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL. I hear you.

Let me just say a final peice.

W called in to see me tonight on way from MIL's. First time she has been to FMH since our 2nd split. She wanted to see if S and I were ok. I told her that I was NOT ok because of what had happened today and she said she felt the same.

I told her that I had made a Drs appt for this evening as I felt so bad. We talked for a while about our sitch (not always R talk) and the upcoming bankruptcy. I explained to her that everything had got on top of me today and that I was feeling very upset about it all.

She said that she was fed up of me changing my thoughts all the time, one minute I was up and next minute I was down. I explained that it was due to my fluctuating emotions regarding everything (I have been on ADs for 8 years) and that due to S being in court and last night with her and BFF, I was finding it hard to cope at this moment, hence my appt with the Dr. She said that she found it all a bit much today as well.

I am afraid from there my emotions got the better of me (I was a -2 on a scale of 0 - 10 in mood (with 0 being the lowest)) and I started to shake. I was in a mess. She just sat there, looking at me like I was something from another planet. Not a flicker of emotion at all. She told me that I needed to get out of the house more and that I was to stop grabbing at straws about 'us'.

She also said that she hadn't found me physically attractive for years and that she had felt anxious about 'us' for years, with it getting worse as time went on. It got to a point where she just KNEW that it would never return and had to get out. There was no way that 'we' could survive anymore. It wasn't her, it wasn't me, it was 'us'. We had reached the end of the line and there was no way of going back. She could never recover the feelings she once had. Let me tell you, her eyes were telling me the same story.

She said she was happy that I had sorted myself out, that I was getting fitter and healthier and that maybe if I had done that a few years ago, things may have been different, now it was past the point of no return. She felt like she had given our marriage the best chance she could but she wasn't happy anymore with me. If we stayed together, then she would resent me, treat me bad and then make me unhappy. She just wanted to be alone, even if she was lonely and unhappy sometimes. At least she could be that way without worrying about anyone else.

I took the opportunity to tell her that if she had said OK let's try again, I wouldn't want to, and my current state of mind was due to everything and not just her and I didn't want to go back to where things were. I also confirmed that I was still in the same frame of mind about her BFF.

Anyway, I have been to see Dr. and had my AD's doubled, so that should help in a week or 2. I have also been referred to the community mental health team for assistance.

I have honestly had enough of fighting with W, trying for recon and planning things in the vain hope that she may change her mind in the future.

I told her that there was always a place in my heart for her and if she EVER wanted to try again in the future, then she should let me know and if I wanted to let her, then we would talk about it and discuss it then.

W left and asked me to phone her after the doctors, I did and she listened and asked me if I felt better, I said that it had helped. There was no emotion in her voice. Nothing. She told me to look after myself and said goodbye.

I am weary with all the other problems going on in my life, I know that W has given up. I could tell it in her eyes. I believe that she is one of the few that MEAN it. I honestly haven't the willpower to carry on with this anymore. I need to conserve energy to get over the bankruptcy and FMH sale / repossession. With my current state of mind I think that I would drag myself too far down with holding out faint hope.

I would like to thank everyone here for giving me their help, advice and support and I will stick around to help others, but I am done.

Thanks people. You've been great to me.

I'm sorry.

You can always come back just to vent.

Silva,

I think your world will look a lot better without a mean and selfish woman in your life. She is clearly both. What she said when you were down is like kicking someone who is on the ground from being hit by an auto.

You don't want her as a W and you surely don't want her as a friend. Friends even strangers with compassion don't do what she has done. Sadly, she is your son's mother so there will have to be contact, be "civil", but please give up the idea of ever being friends.

It is time you got healthy. It is time you led a good life. It is time you were with someone that actually brought something to your life rather than took away from your life. Finally, it is time to quit worrying about her. Worry about your sons, and yourself, but not her.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks Cat and JL.

You have both a great help.

I will get myself sorted, you are right JL, I don't need that sort of person in my life. I have given and given and run out of supplies. I need to get my own 'shop' restocked and then go out into the real world and do some 'window shopping'

I will try to have a look at other people's threads now and pass on any advice I can. I have a lot of experience to draw on and I might just be able to help.

I have been too self absorbed over the last 5 weeks and a little selfish in thaat respect.

Time to pay some back.

Thanks again and take care.

Yes you do have experiences you can share and the best thing about 'helping' others on MB is that you continue to learn yourself.

Work on yourself, make a good life for YOU (as B says )
Dont be relient on a selfish wayward, in an A or not.

HAving said that, you said earlier she said "do what ever you want" Thats what Flick would say to me whenever he had recent contact with the possum queen.

Thanks Lil, I never thought that by helping I can learn as well. That's a very good point

I know that W isn't in touch with OM, it's BFF that is the 'affair partner'. She puts her POV out there and W just accepts it, it's so sad to see.

However, time to forget all that.

I've never felt as bad as I did yesterday, in ALL of my life, I just wanted the hurt to stop, the pain to go away, I wanted to run away. I flet like I wanted to go to sleep and never wake up.

However, I did sleep, I did wake up, I am getting help and there are others that I need to consider, my 2 boys for a start. They were and are great (even though one of them was the cause of everything yesterday!)

I think that I needed to hit the bottom to realise which way I have to go to get back up, I was stuck somewhere in the middle and it wasn't healthy. From now though, the only way is UP

Just sat here thinking before I go to bed and realised something I did yesterday.

When I went off on one to W about BFF, I was acting strong and fearlessly defesive towards my W and children. I was showing W that NO-ONE comes between me and them.

It must have made an impact.

Just a thought.

Catch up with all of you later.

Yes sir!

I sent a a friendly txt to w tonight, said "BOO, did I make you jump, LOL.

That was it.

Last time I spoke to her, we decided to be friendly and keep in touch.

I got no reply from my txt, no friendly answer.

So, I am going to phone her tomorrow, invite her to a cafe for a drink, ask why I got no response and depending on the answer I get, I may go totally off the compass.

I cannot understand why, if she has agreed to be 'friends' that she wouldn't reply.

Maybe it's my expectations, maybe not. I will find out tomorrow though.

It would seem that from my perspective (I will tell her this as it's only fair) that if my txt was ignored because she had nothing to say, then friends are no longer possible.

I will let you know tomorrow.

Thought more about it.

Decided to leave it, got nothing from her, so my tentative toe in the water found it to be icy cold.

I have warmth here in my heart and soul and I don't need cold and ice.

Que sera sera.

Well my D18's phone broke yesterday, out of the blue, in two pieces, so she suddenly had no way to access all her friends. You would have thought she was going to die, lol. She had no one's phone number anywhere else! So she had to go through this long circuit of people (the first one's number was on MY phone) to get to the person she was supposed to meet last night.

Just sayin' it's always possible there's another explanation.

Silvagod,

Perhaps she is off with OM or something, who knows? This comment comes across as sort of a "downer" doesn't it? Here is my point. You are fearing losing something that you have already lost: good marriage with a woman that you love and loves you.

Silvagod it is gone. It will only come back when you and some woman (perhaps your W) decide you both have something to offer the other. Your W has decided you have NOTHING TO OFFER HER.

Now you can hang your head, I understand that choice.
You can decide to become a more interesting and better man.

It is not clear that either choice will bring your W back, but it is clear the second choice offers you by far the best chance at obtaining what you really want: a good marriage with a woman that you love and loves you.

So guess what I am going to recommend? Yup on the very first guess you got it.

Quit focusing on your W and start focusing on your life, yourself, your friends, your children, your job, and become a man that people enjoy, laugh with, and want to be around. She has to make her own decisions. You need to start to make decisions that offer you the best future, and Oh! just incase this has slipped your mind. If you do become the things I have listed do you know who will benefit the most??? Well other than you. You children will. Your children will see how you handled this. They will see you grow, learn, change and they will take this as a major life lesson.

I am not say file for divorce today. I am saying work on you, and leave your W alone. She has her own problems to address. You work on becoming what anyone would enjoy as a friend...a trusted friend.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

They are very wise words indeed and I thank you for them.

You are right, again.

It really IS my choice. Do I want to be the lonely man who trudges and shuffles down the street to get a newspaper.

H3LL NO!!

It is about time that I shook off my self pity, got out there and showed the world who I REALLY am.

I have had a friend over tonight (W's cousin) who has been through the mill with a D (his wife left to move in with her lesbian GF) and he is a qualified therapist. We had a long chat and he told me a few truths about how long these things take to move on from. He also told me that it was the good things about my M that I was having trouble letting go. I thought about this for a while and you know, he is right.

The WAS often rewrites the M to assuage their guilt. The LBS looks back on nothing but happiness with a deep regret.

If I take the last 2 years as an example and choose to write about it as it actually was, it wasn't pretty. There was a lot of pain and anguish on both sides. Do I want to go back to that?

Nope, I want a better life.

Thanks for the cheers Lil, and Cat, thanks for the 'possible' reason. I doubt it's something like that, and I need to stop thinking about it anyway.

Thanks again people, you are great

First step made today.

I have booked a ticket to a party organised for 75 people from a UK divorce forum in 2 weeks.

I know it's not a lot, but hey, baby steps an all