AOTC I really do sincerely wish you good luck.

You might want to stop and consider that we really do know what we are talking about.

We'd really like to help you but you are dismissing everything anyone posts to you. You are shooting at the helpcopters and telling us that the reason we don't understand is because you haven't expressed yourself clearly enough. But actually, we see perfectly.

You are the least experienced person on this thread and cannot see clearly. We would love to save you some anguish if you would only listen.

bigkahuna:

Thanks for your last post. Please don't indulge in sarcasm. I'm really not in the mood for that. You should know that on a rollercoaster ride, the person with the sarcasm is most likely the one that catches it when the rider loses his lunch, okay?

I'm happy and anxious to listen to what those with more experience have to say. But remember that style counts, too. And when things are dicey like this, style counts more than ever.

Given that, I get the point of the last two posts. I am a man of great passions, and I tend to get a little over-enthusiastic about things at times. I do my best to guard against that, but it's been so damned tough the last three months given major joint replacment surgery and then the 2x4 upside the head in a two-week stretch.

I get the point, I promise you. I didn't think any of her friends would help her do a head fake around me.

But being told that the OM was doing the "Fatal Attraction" thing really hit her hard. Now that you phrase it the way you do, I'm going to really re-examine things. I think she sees him for what he is finally, but you're correct. I could be mis-reading things.

I used to like rollercoasters.

Now, not so much.

AHOC,
My first and possibly last post to you about your sitch.

Here are what I have had to finally come to grips with, as will you in the not to distant future.


WW's always " affair down as evidenced by insightful writings and books by Dr Frank Pittman. Look them up.
" good girl in a good M tosses aside good H for a wild ride with the bad boy

Seems to me, your WW decided to take the bad ride with OM

Next point is, your WW could not have cared less about the marital status of OM, as mine did not either. It takes two to tango, period!!!

It was never about M status, as your WW did not care about her own M status. Why would she place emphasis on that, if she did the deed while she was M'd to you?


PREDATOR: Yup, I latched onto that notion too for a long while. My poor naieve W simply didn't know she was being player by a pro. Bulls888t!!!!!!

They didn't care!!! They wanted the bad boy!!

Through years of experience here, I am warning you that if you buy into the fact that your your WW was played here, you will lose the significance that your WW actively played into the same game, and now tries to absolve herself from any wrongdoing. Don't buy into this BS.She knows what she did and is trying to downplay her guilt in this whole matter.

Recent contact with her OM only accentuatates that she is still not commited to R and is only waiting for OM to make the next move.

Unfortunately, you are not ahead of the curve, but rather, in the same rollarcoater as the rest of us. You are simply being deceived by a liar.

You will come to see this in time, as most of us had to see it.

All Blessings,
Jerry

shinethrough:

Been a long night with a lot of long thoughts. As I said in my last post, I run on my emotions all too often, and I'm starting to see I was a little too optimistic after yesterday afternoon.

Thanks to those who pointed it out to me. Just a reminder -- be a little more diplomatic about it, okay? The tone almost caused me to disregard everything.

Your point of it taking two to tango is absolutely correct. I just keep having this feeling that if she knew the OM's actual marital status before she lost her freakin' mind in the spring of '07 he never would have gotten close enough to her in the first place.

On the other hand, she might have gotten into an A with someone who wasn't obviously a POS, and that would have been ten times worse.

Now that this guy's true character has been exposed to the point that even she can't deny it any more, chances of a real R are improved. That's if I decide to stick around after this weekend.

I'd told her that if she went around my back like she did, that I was done and that I would walk away because that would destroy the last little bit of trust I had.

I have to do some deep thinking on this one. Driving home from work last night, I realized that she's promised NC and broken it eight times now since mid-November. Will I play ball one last time? If so, it's the ninth inning, and one more strikeout and it's game over.

The question is -- has the game changed enough with the revelation of the "Fatal Attraction" strategy by that POS? Did it really get to her, and does she really see what she's done? If so, walking away would be a mistake. But if she's just mad about it, and not truly remorseful for her actions and the harm they've wreaked, I have no other choice than to throw in the towel.

I keep thinking that the blinders have to come off at some time. But have they?

I posted on Mark1952's music thread a few days ago about my favorite song and how it just sums things up. It's an old song by the The Who called "Bargain."

I'd gladly lose me to find you
I'd gladly give up all I got
To catch you I'm gonna run and never stop
I'd pay any price just to win you
Surrender my good life for bad
To find you I'm gonna drown an unsung man

I'd call that a bargain
The best I ever had

Ain't looking like a bargain right now. But the promise still seems to be there. I just hope I'm not kidding myself.

I do know that I will have to make a decision on what to do this weekend. This is gonna really, really suck.

ADDENDUM:

I have one request of the vets on this board. We've done the EN questionnaire, and I've been following the precepts of Dr. Harley for the most part, but she hasn't been active on this website. Should I get her to read the two threads I've been running on here? Would that help her comprehend what's been going on?

My 46 posts so far are as close to a diary of my mental state as anything. Do you think her actually reading 'em from start to finish, along with the responses of the MB community, would do any good?

Feedback desperately desired!!!

----
Me: BH (49)
Her: WW (47)
Sons: 23, 22
EA 3/07?-12/08?
PA 6/07-10/08
D-Day 11/11/08

No. Because until her affair is really over, as demonstrated by some long term ACTION, she won't comprehend anything. She will just learn your tactics so she can fool you better next time. Then you would lose this place as a resource.


Suggestion: please toughen up a bit and pay more attention to what is said rather than how nice it is said. You are the only one who would have suffered if you had disregarded good advice only because it wasn't said nicely enough. Folks really are trying to help you and were only trying to get your attention. It seems to have worked.

I was a little too optimistic yesterday afternoon.


It's common to be optimistic if you believe the fog lifts this easy.
Fog lingers, different degree for different day. BTW, convincing your WW to the OM's true colours will not lift the fog.
The tone almost caused me to disregard everything.


The tone should cause you to re-examine your thinking. It is not the tone you dislike, but the thoughts behind the words.
I just keep having this feeling that if she knew the OM actual marital status........


The only requirement to be the OM/OW, is to be of the human species.
You still don't get this one, go back re-read last few pages of posts.

one more strike out and it's game over


There will be many strike outs. This is the way it goes. I suggest you stop making these threats to your WW because you do not want to follow thru with them at this point. Do not make any decision to end the M now, your mindset is too emotional. Right now think 'I can save this marriage step by step'

should I get her to read the two threads on, will she comprehend what is going on


No, she won't get it b/c SHE IS STILL IN THE FOG. I used to think the same thing so I know where you are coming from. I am sure the vets will say the same thing.

**edit**

AOTC,

I understand that you want to be in recovery more than anything. What BS who wants to save their marriage wouldn't? But like my dad used to say: "Why don't you "want" in one hand, piss in the other, and see which one fills up first?"

Your wife was in contact with OM last week? Then you are not in recovery. Plain and simple. It is not up for debate, it does not matter if we have all the facts, and wishful thinking will not change things. You are not in recovery. Period.

I hope that you eventually are.

You also need to scrap the notion that she was played by some "expert liar". Please. The fool was allegedly staying in a trailer in "his ex's front yard"? I doubt he could swindle an extra order of fries from a teen running the drive thru at McDonald's.

Yes, he lied. But your wife KNEW he was lying and liked it. What type of "bad boy" goes around being honest?

She was not tricked. She was not trapped. She was having her fantasy fulfilled. Those looks of horror and disgust when you "reveal" things to her about OM? They could be caused by several things, but I seriously doubt they are caused by finding out that OM was lying to her. Unless she is stupid, she already knew he was. Don't think for a second that she wasn't lying to him, too...you two never have sex, you have a penis like a skin tag, etc.

Your wife was every bit the "playa" that OM was. You also need to start considering that maybe this particular Prince Charming wasn't the only one who managed to get into your wife's pants. Obviously, she's not particularly choosy.


To sum up:

You are not in recovery no matter how much you'd like to be.

OM is not some expert liar or con artist.

Your wife was not tricked, trapped, or taken advantage of.

At least you'd better hope she wasn't, because if she's really that stupid, there's no hope for your marriage.

AOTC,

First, sorry you have become a member of the club no one wants to belong to. I haven't read your entire thread, but I wanted to point out a couple of things for you. You should listen to EVERYTHING BK and MEL tell you. They have seen hundreds of situations just like yours and have the script down pat. Your situation is not unique. The WS and the BS follow a very predictable script. Right now, you are still in the shock and denial phase of a BS.


I know BK and MEL can be a snarky bastidges, but that is the point of their posts. They are trying to provoke you to really think about what is going on and to snap you out of the BS fog you are in. Not unlike most of the other BSs when they arrive here at MB. Believe me, you could not get better advice than they have given you and you would be well served to listen to them.


I've been right where you are and BK is absolutely correct. For now, placing the blame on the OM is a reflex of sorts. It's protecting you from unleashing the underlying anger you have. The OM owed you nothing. Your WW is the one with whom you took vows. Let me ask you a question. If your WW's marital status didn't matter to her, what makes you so sure the OM's marital status would have mattered either?


Do not bring your WW here until the A is over and you have verifiable NC in place. Until then, her reading your thoughts and plans would only provide her with ways to better deceive you.

Want2Stay

My jets don't need cooling. The further details are more of the same and don't change my opinion. You are not ahead of the curve but refuse to see it.


Really? Others, myself included, have pointed out how you've been wrong about things thus far and you still stick your fingers in your ears. Everybody has misunderstood or is wrong except you? Again no one is trying to be right just for the sake of being right. All BSs know your pain and are willing to give advice to help YOU not be bulldozed by WW and hope to spare you from learning lessons that some of us have learned the hard way.


No.

Ahead,
Really, when you think about it, really think about, what do have to lose by opening your mind to the vets. You've not made great leaps forward to NC and recovery with your plan. A MB plan set out by these people can save your marriage, if you are willing. Precious time is being wasted in denial on your part.



Take care

You keep excusing her constant breaking of her promised NC's as her still being "Foggy". The Fog state feels good and they don't usually want to leave that state. Make sure your actions or inactions aren't allowing her to stay in the Foggy state.

So far their have been no consequences for her breaking NC. So whats the incentive to not keep breaking it?

Also she seems more interested in finding out why he broke up with her than repairing your marriage. You are just an afterthought. I don't know about you but I refuse to be someone's afterthought even my spouse's.

Where would she be if this guy didn't dump her or was truly divorced?? I think you know.

Thanks for all the feedback. I will follow the advice and not point out this thread to her. I getcha. No problem.

As for my problems with snark, I actually do snark for a living. I am a professional, and that's how I pay my bills. The snark I've been getting came across as mean spirited with a tinge of gloating, because what I tried didn't work. I know intellectually it wasn't meant that way, but intellect doesn't reign supreme all the time right now.

I am no longer a James Bond Martini. I was shaken, but now I'm stirred as well. Skip the snark. Right now, I need a lot of nice, 'cause there ain't a whole lot of nice going on and I have to keep a public happy-face going. It really, really sucks.

Flynn:

Yup, been making excuses for her. I don't feel particularly good right now. I'm seriously considering, as they say on the cop shows, lawyering up. I'm not a patient guy, and what supply I do have is about used up.

I used to like roller coasters. Not so much, anymore.

AHOC, we really are on your side, but if you want nice, you need to call your momma. We are here to help you save your marriage, not to have a tea party with you. I would implore you once again to pay close attention to the SUBSTANCE of the words and stop worrying about how "nice" the post is. "Nice" is not going to save your marriage. You have too much on the line right now to allow yourself to get distracted by nonsense.

Strap her asz to a polygraph then staple a GPS to her forehead!

No you don't. You choose to put up the facade that all is well on the home front. Not saying you have to wear your feelings on your sleeve for all the world to see but it sounds like you are really caught up in appearances. This may be part of the reason you want to ignore your WW's own stupidity, believe her lies, and not expose to family.

I can't imagine giving a rat's [censored] about appearances after d-day. What other people think was so unimportant that it wasn't even ON my list of priorities.

It's normal for NC to get broken a few times.

Boundaries have to be put into place to stop this from happening.

NC with toxic friends.

Verify NC every way you can. Key loggers, digital VAR in the home and her car. GPS in her car.

It's sometimes happens when a BH as you is to willing to believe a WW that only has been lying non stop to you before D day and after without proof.

There can be no trust without verification. Before affairs yes. After affairs no.

black raven / krazy71

The happy face is for at work, okay. Being happy is part of the job.

TheRoad:

We talked again today during her lunch hour. She told me she understands her promises are worthless, but she's willing to do whatever it takes to prove she's on the up and up.

Trust but verify is the phrase of the day.

And the roller coaster continues on.....

If I were you, I'd make you and your wife working the same shift a priority.

Regardless of the financial consequences, one of you needs to change shifts, or jobs if necessary. Immediately.