L4, have you done this? Have you re-read your thread start to finish? If not, try to make the time. Just see how far you've come.

- Sh0cked

I have. And it's just so surreal that this is my life -- then and now. Who the heck was I to do this to my H, myself, my family, and the BW? Unbelievable.

Still a long way to go...

Saturday night H and I were discussing a trip my parents have offered all of their children's families next year to celebrate their 50th anniversary. My H said it made him kind of sad to think he may not go because we may not be together. This took me by surprise and I didn't reply.

Sunday morning while in bed I told H that it bothered me what he said about maybe not being with me to make the trip next year. He said, "Well that's true." I said, "Do you know this now?" He replied, "I don't know. I don't know what I want."

I'm living like a married woman who needs and loves her H and who wants to take care of her famliy, including planning our future together -- from birthday parties in March to what summer camps we need to consider for the kids. H won't let me plan out anything beyond a few weeks because he "doesn't know if we'll be together then."

Should I see this as him being radically honest and it's my problem and not his when he tells me he doesn't know if we'll be together? I mean if he's being honest, I should appreciate that, right? Or should I ask him to keep these wavering thoughts to himself as the doubt they instill makes me nervous and protective? I'm not sure what his motivation is -- to be open with me or to control and keep me guessing.

In addition...

H also said last Friday that he doesn't know if he can be with me down the road. He added that he wants to make sure I'm okay and that I'm taken care of. He worded it all in a way that made me feel like he's here with me out of obligation and to make sure I don't fall apart, not because he loves me or wants me. Still early in our recovery, I know. But what am supposed to do with this info? It's not the first time he's positioned his being here this way -- that he has to be here, not because he wants to be. I'm not complaining that he's here, but I don't want to be a charity case. I mean, what incentive is it for me to heal him, heal me, and heal us if I believe that once we're "better", he's out the door?

BTW... I think I'm doing pretty well. I am by no means suicidal or an alcoholic or going off the deep end. I'm working out again, went to lunch with girlfriends last week, I'm working part-time, I put together a Super Bowl party and dinner for friends yesterday, we have SF almost every day, I'm singing again, playing with the kids... Yes, I have low moments and I cry sometimes, but who wouldn't when she's destroyed her spouse and the world around her?

I think I would do my very best to respond with sympathy. I know that's so hard right now because you're hurting, too. You want him to comfort and reassure you. But I think in a way he wants you to comfort and reassure him. So what if, when he says he's not sure he can make your parents' 50th anniversary party, you give him a sympathetic look. Then say, "Yeah, it will be really really sad for everyone if you decide you can't go. Especially for me. But I haven't given up on our marriage yet, so for now, why don't we just assume you're going. It's not like they're making plane reservations today or anything. You can always change your mind later."

I guess I'm trying to think of how you might respond to a good friend if you had nothing personal riding on the situation. You'd express sympathy. You'd give reassurance without making promises. You'd remind them that they don't have to decide today.

Oops. I responded to your first post while you were posting your second.

I think I would respond to these remarks in a way that totally ignores the sense of obligation and instead focuses on the care he is showing. [i]Thank you for making sure I'm taken care of. I feel safer knowing you're looking out for me. You're a good man for taking such good care of me at a time when I know you have really mixed feelings about me."

I was wondering if you might consider asking your H to a shorter time period. That way he can decide that he will for sure be around for say 3 mos. Then you can revisit at the end of that.

Because you will be a better person, you will feel calm with yourself.

Your H has earned the right to this 'see-saw' ride of recovery. I still am not sure if I will be here in 1 yr, but right now I am here and I am trying, as is your H.

We are on opposite ends of the spectrum and we both would like a quick fix, it ain't gonna happen.

L4,

When a new BS comes here we often advise him or her to begin Plan A. Plan A is an effort to win back the heart of a spouse who has completely checked out, usually fallen in love with someone else and is threatening or actively pursuing the demise of the marriage. Many struggle with Plan A thinking that it is letting the WS walk all over them but what it is supposed to be is an all out effort to get the WS to fall in love with the WS once more.

In order to accomplish this we advise the BS to do three things:

1) Meet his/her ENs as much as within your power, and as much as is allowed.

2) Identify Love Busters that you have a habit of committing and get rid of them from your life.

3) Have NO expectations.

Number 1 is how you make Love Bank deposits. It is how someone ends up IN LOVE with you. Once the LB$ balance in your account exceeds the Romantic Threshold, LOVE is there and once begun the person is likely to want more.

Number 2 is how you avoid making withdrawals from the Love Bank and so gives you the best shot at building and maintaining a balance in the Love Bank above the Romantic Threshold.

Number 3 prevents you from reacting to the disappointment that is sure to come when your efforts seem to be rejected and the WS says almost daily that he/she is leaving, does not love you and can never be in love with you again.

This is the process that a BS is told to go through in order to win the WS back from the affair partner. It is the single hardest thing most have ever attempted. The ones who get it right, stay focused and can pull it off in spite of seeing little to no headway for a few weeks or months stand a good chance of saving their marriage.

The reason this works is that if you meet some one's ENs, avoid doing anything to withdraw Love Units from your account and do it day after day even thought you are not getting what you need in return, the person will eventually be IN LOVE with you.

Now another type of LOVE requires not a feeling but an action. It is not what we feel but what we DO. Your husband clearly still exhibits that kind of love toward you. He cares deeply about you and wants to take care of you, but right now is having a hard time dealing with his feelings which waiver between wanting to be with you forever and wanting to get away from the person who hurt him.

Here's the thing, if you keep doing the meeting of ENs and avoiding any additional Love Busters, your husband will feel more and more in love with you, the feeling, not the action type of love.

It might not be enough to get him to commit to staying with you but is a better bet than just trying to wait for him to decide before you move forward.

You see, Plan A is all about a BS making him/herself a better person, hopefully better than the affair partner and better enough that the WS commits to staying married and working on rebuilding the relationship.

You actually have an advantage over a BS, L4. You are not competing against an affair partner. You are already doing much of this and working to improve yourself.

Make L4 the best L4 than can be and hopefully your husband will not want to let you go.

But if he does, making yourself better will benefit you no matter what the outcome for your marriage and learning how to prevent having an affair again in the future will make you better still, for your current marriage, a future one or just to help those you meet later in life who are struggling with either having an affair or who are married to someone who is.

You have no control over what your husband does, but you can control you. Make you the best you possible and you will be a winner no matter what he does.

Mark

I hope so. This is incentive.

I agree.

Even if I say pretty please?

I understand. I think what I'm trying to say (and I think I'm failing at it) is that I don't want to feel like I have to protect myself from H leaving. Because if I protect myself, I'm not giving all of me to my H and my marriage. When he keeps me uneasy like this, I'm in protection mode. So I want to disregard when he talks about not being around, because at the end of the day, I can't control whether he stays or goes so I prefer to believe like we'll be together forever. This is hard to do, however, when H keeps bringing up his indecisiveness.

What also doesn't help is when I read other posts such as Aphelion's stating that he plans on leaving his WW in 2-1/2 years after the kids are gone. When asked why he's still with his W now, his response was "Because I pity her." I do not want my H staying with me because he pities me. You can't fulfill ENs when pity is your motivation, can you? And a M without ENs being met is an unhealthy and unhappy M. I know this both from my own experience and from all I've read here.

Thank you, Mark, for your words of wisom and strength.

Your BH can have many reasons for making his I don't know's.

Best for you to not to let him get you into a discussion of the I don't know's. Instead say your sorry for what you did then change the subject.

The point is to not empower his I don't know's.

L4,

I really doubt that your husband feels pity toward you. I think he feels obligation and duty, even if you broke the rules. I'm a duty bound kind of guy and I can say that it is a powerful driver.

I think you have sometime to work on this. I still think if you could ask for a small commitment like 3 months, then he may be able to give that. Then you could just stop thinking about forever and so could he. Think how difficult it would be for him to make a forever commitment right now. I could not do it. I could do something more bite size. I never recovered fully but I think it takes a long long time for the forever commitment to be in site again. Maybe you can get 3 months now, and then 6 months later , and then maybe forever.

Gabe

L4,

I like the idea of intermediate goals of commitment. It seems to make sense right now. However, there is something else you need to address and yes it is YOUR expectations. You expect to be able to make this all better. You cannot do that he needs to heal. You can certainly put some medicine on the wounds and change the dressing but that really is all you can do for HIM.

However, there is something you can do for yourself.
Your H is going to leave or he is not. Heck he might die tomorrow in an accident. Noone knows the future. You need to live today as you need to make yourself and family happy. You don't do that by protecting yourself from H leaving. You do that by loving and living as you should. YOu do that by being interdependent with him, but not DEPENDENT on him. You do the right things.

He may stay, he may go. Your control of his feelings and thoughts are weak at best. But, you can be a person most people would love to stay with, and it is possible as you become what he preceives to be less dependent on him more attractive to him as he doesn't view you as a liability. You want him to view you as a partner.

I remember that his behavior toward you before your A was not exemplary. So step back. Loving him as you will, be a good friend, a good mother, a good W and let him make that decision. I would NOT hold decisions about children's activities based on his indecision. The children should not be short changed based on either of your actions.

Just thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

Looking4,

Remember when I asked you why in the world you thought he was upset about finding you on the computer???

The fact that you had so little regard for his sense of security and protecting him since that is how much of your affair was conducted!!!

This isn't the first time I've told you that he is returning the favor is it???

WHY DO YOU THINK HE IS WANTING TO MAKE YOU FEEL INSECURE???

He feels it everyday!!!

You carried on your affair without one thought of his safety or security didn't you?

Well, guess what he is doing now?

That's right, he's testing you to see if you will bail on him and to see if you are sincere about the marriage.

The correct answer is the one you already know...

I LOVE YOU AND I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU.

Tell him that...

Over and over and over again...

Not this stuff that says "You're not healing fast enough for me!"

Your I don't know if I can handle this insecurity is EXACTLY what he is afraid of...

He thinks if you are STILL that SAME woman better to see it NOW and get it over with...

Before he falls in love with you all over again...

Well, what kind of woman are you?

You have ONE goal and that is to RESTORE the marriage... NOT just EXIST in the marriage...

He would have ALREADY left if he didn't want to be there and you KNOW that!!!

OK, you can come out now. :twobyfour:

Jim

[T/J] Jim....saw where you posted to Budg1e this morning but now I can't find his thread...Oh! ~ maybe it moved to GQII...hmmmmm I'll have to check. Hope you and others can keep helping him. [/TJ]

L4, glad you see you are working out and improving yourself. Self recovery is the most important part of marital recovery....and it will benefit you regardless what your H chooses to do.

I can't add any more since you're getting such solid advice from the heavy hitters...


... (well, Jim, maybe you should back off on your 'hitting' a tad! LOL)

Ace

[T/J]

Hi Ace!!!

Just remembering how Melody, Neak, Larry and all the rest of the gang "batted me back into play" when I "would get confused . I hope Looking4 knows its given with as big a as the :twobyfour: as those I got...

I do know one thing it got my attention!!!

If I had not received all the wonderful help and the occasional 2X4 we would not have made it.

Glad to see you are backing me up, I appreciate it!!!

God bless.

Jim

A BS feels like this, yes everyday.

L4 you have had the luxury of time and self awareness, your H isn't there ... yet

Don't take it personally, things that he says are not directed at you but at the hurt he still feels inside. I still feel like this, I am just more careful as to what I say to my H.

You both will make it, I am sure of that.

Be sure to fly above the clouds since that silver lining that you see, may be another plane ! This to me means walk with caution, until I know the ground below is solid.
Just giving a view from the other side.

Take care

L4,

Did you read my most recent thoughts on my Musings thread. (See link in my sig line. The latest will be on the last page...)

L4,
Jim_Flint has nailed it. Your husband doesn't want to leave the marriage. If he did, he'd be gone. He's terrified to stay. He's hurting beyond belief and terrified that it might happen again.

Tell him how sorry you are (yes again!) and how much you love him and appreciate him (yes again!).

Then show him through consistent actions over time that your number one priority is the sanctity of your marriage, and his safety and well-being.

Jim_Flint, awesome post.