What kind of counselor are you seeing? What are his/her credentials? There are many people out there who counsel who know little about how to re-build a marriage. Many who counsel are very young with very little life experience and little knowledge of research based practise.

Do not believe that she will have no contact during her time away from your home. Waywards lie. How can she sort out her feelings while she is away from you, her husband. This kind of talk really frustrates me--she is putting you as an equal to the piece of crap other man-sheesh!

It is your scaredness that will cause you the most difficulty in recovering your marriage.

Do not expose and go into Plan B. You need to stay in Plan A. Have you read this site thoroughly? You go into Plan B when the love units in your love bank are so depleted that you are beginning to risk losing your love for your wife and your desire to save the marriage. I do not think you are at that point now. It is important to Plan A during and after exposure.

Dr. Harley is a well qualified marriage coach with years of experience saving marriages. His latest information re-confirms and encourages exposure. While you do exposure, it is important that you maintain a stance that you are doing it out of love for your wife and a determination that you are committed to saving your marriage. She will become angry. You can survive her anger because it will fade. Your marriage cannot survive her contact with the other man.

Where are your children going to be while she is away for a week? With her or with you. Do not let her take your children out of your home and do not leave your home. Do not send her to this site while she remains a foggy wayward.

I know I may sound paranoid to you, but I have no way of knowing how far gone she is. Some waywards use "leaving the home for a week" as a way of just getting out of the home and never coming back. I do not want to read in a week or so that that happened to you and your children.

If she is so fogged out that she is leaving you for a week, you need to expose now, not later. But read this site and get your plan together. Do not go about this hap-hazard. You could move your thread over to Infidelity, General Questions II as it has a higher rate of traffic. There are some very sharp posters who read posts there.

hopeful, if your "counselor" does not advocate exposure, I would look for a qualified counselor. Most marriage counselors are not qualified and have a dismal 84% failure rate. They don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages and even less of an understanding of the dynamics of infidelity. Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist with 35 years experience specializing in adultery and the founder of Marriage Builders. He CONFIRMS exposure:

Dr. Willard Harley: "I'm in the process of rewriting "Surviving an Affair" to add information about plan B. Some of the main points are as follows:

Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.

The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.

<snip unrelated>
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."

Melody is absolutely right. Many counselors will listen to you for half a dozen appointments and then tell you. "well you just aren't compatible." I know because it happened to my wife and I when we were married about 4 years. We have our 29th anniversary in march.

Hopefulg,

There are a few things you are missing here. First, you can and should stay in plan A after you expose. Here is the KEY thing you need to know about exposure. You are seeking the help of her parents, your parents, friends, even work, to save your marriage. You do not do this for revenge but for help and assistance. Make sure those you expose to KNOW that you want to save your marriage, that you love her very much, and you need their help in saving the marriage.

Most counselors view exposure as "dangerous", but Harley views from the perspective that as long as the A continues, you have no chance. If it continues to long you won't care if you have a chance and the marriage is over even if the affair ends and she wants to come back.

Please read about the love bank, and love busters. Exposure is to seek help in ending the affair, and save your marriage. It is not to punish her although she will think so for a long time. You have to weather this. She will say things such as "I was going to come back but NOW that you have exposed this I don't think I want to Or I will not be coming back." These and similar statements are heard all of the time.

Meanwhile you need to be examining your role in the marriage and where you can make it better by more efficiently meeting her needs.

This is a process Hopefulg and it takes time and patience.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

again, thanks everyone ...
I understand that exposing and working Plan A is the right course of action ... I've reread alot of the material and am making and executing a plan.

Question ... the primary EN that I missed with WW has been Affection ... even though it's fog talk, I thing there's truth to her claims that I haven't treasured her, told her she's beautiful, told her I'm proud of her ... all that verbal praise, attentiveness, affection ... I've served her, provided, touched - those things have been easy.

It feels impossible to meet her affection EN while working plan A - it just comes off as contrived, no matter how heartfelt my "praise" of her is ... and frankly, It's pretty hard to tell someone that you're proud of them and think that they are beautiful when the are cheating on you. Thoughts?

the kids are with me ... and I will fight to the death to keep them with me no matter where this goes ... she's abandoning us.

how do I move a thread?

Glad to hear you are preparing for exposure. Like it has been advised. Tell all your family. Her parents, Yours, your friends, pastor. Your kids aren't old enough but they will pick up things. Kids are pretty sharp. The one person you do tell face to face is the OM. You go and get up in his grill and tell him to stay the hell away from your wife. If she comes back pissed, tell her you appreciated her openness, but it does not change the fact that she is cheating on you. She says she needs time away to think, that's fine. But you need to tell her that there are things you must do as well for your sake and the families.

ironic thing is that I am the pastor ... brings a whole different set of complications into the mix.

Good luck with that. Counselors have an abysmally low success rate when it comes to helping marriages in crisis. In fact, most on here would say that marriage counseling is a complete waste of money while the affair is ongoing and I would agree based on my own experiences.

A WEEK??? Unacceptable. For one thing, it will take her several weeks to several months just to get through withdrawal from him. It's like withdrawing from a drug or grieving the loss of a friend. You don't bounce back after a week, that's nonsense. It takes absolutely NO contact over a substantial amount of time.

Tell her that there is not room for three people in your marriage and that you expect her to never contact him again as long as she is married to you.

She won't agree to this, and she'll say you're controlling, selfish, manipulative, you can't tell her what to do... that's not the point. The point is that you need to make a clear statement to her that there is not room for three people in the marriage. When she next contacts him, you do a nuclear exposure.

She will be furious. She will say she was going to commit to the marriage and break it off with him, but there's no chance of that now. She'll say she'll never be able to trust you again (ironic, huh?). She'll say she hates you and that it's all over. She may pack her bags and leave for a while. Expect this. She is angry because she can't have her little dream world with you on the side. She's angry because now everyone knows and "everyone will be judging her". She's being forced, momentarily, to see the A not as a fairy tale but as a bad, embarrassing, guilty thing. She won't like that at all. Good!

Whoa! Hold your horses!!! You have to do a stellar Plan A, over time. She has to see that you can be the perfect husband for her, and that you are tuned in to her needs, and committed to meeting them - AND that it's not a temporary change but a permanent change. You have to prove that you have learned and grown and that she would be wise to commit to a life with you because you are changed forever. Otherwise she'll think you're just "acting nice" to trick her into coming back, and then she'll feel unloved and miserable again. You can't just do this for a week or two and then go to Plan B.

thanks Turtlehead ... i've already had the reigns pulled!
I understand plan A much better today than I did yesterday, I've been reading these threads for hours.
I know that a rush into B is disaster.

I'm working on the plan ... exposure and a stellar plan A for at least six months ... I think I can last that long. I'm staying away from withdrawal and LB's and doing all I can to meet her EN.
I think a solid dose of Paxil will help me keep the negative emotions in check:)

I won't impose the ultimatum of NC or the curb by the end of next week ... that will explode in my face ... not the lasting impression that I'm looking to create.

You've all been incredibly helpful.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Then you're messing up. Invariably, BH's who only use the Carrot portion of Plan A find themselves in months of limbo hell followed by Plan D. WW's don't find weakness attractive, and by waiting and trying to make yourself look better in Plan A, while she continues contact, just screams WEAKNESS.

Until you stand up to WW AND OM, you are just spinning your wheels and not getting anywhere.

MyRev and I disagree on the notion of ultimatums. I definitely think you must tell her that YOU find the presence of a third person in your marriage unacceptable. I personally wouldn't put an "or else" clause on there because it makes Plan A much more difficult.

I know that in my case I was toying with the idea of moving out anyway. I'd been looking to see what kind of place I could afford while staying in the same school district and I had a couple of places in mind. I was struggling with the decision of whether to stay or go. If I'd been issued an ultimatum that would have tipped the scales and out I'd be. AND I'd have justified my decision by saying I couldn't live with someone as angry, demanding, and controlling as my H.

Instead he let me know loud and clear what he expected and what he could tolerate, and I stayed and we're happy as can be imagined.

I may be the exception, but I thought I'd throw it out there for your consideration.

OH... and when you expose, do NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT tell WW about your plans!! This will give her the chance to say:

BH and I have been drifting apart for a long time. I try to talk calmly with him but he won't listen. He's become moody and impossible to speak to. He's controlling and jealous, he has accused me of all sorts of crazy things.... I don't see how this is ever going to work with him acting the way he does. Thank goodness I have my friends for support, I don't know how I'd get through this mess without them. I'm especially lucky to have OM, because he offers me advice from a male perspective and that's sooooo helpful.

After THAT speech, how do you think your exposure is going to sound?

So DO NOT reveal your plans.

GreatWhite,

Actually, you should set intermediate dates to evaluate your plan A and the progress being made. I would suggest two months out, and then set another goal.

Here is the point. Plan A requires you put your taker on hold. That is why it is NOT recommended as a strategy for a good marriage although parts of it are very good for a marriage. The point is if you fall out of love with your W, you will not have what it takes to recover the marriage. You may think plan A is tough, but recovery is harder in someways and requires a deep love. So what you do is plan A, the reevaluate. Are you seeing baby steps? Big steps, retreat, what? Are you starting to fall out of love with your W. If so, how much do you have left.

Plan B is really for the BS although it often impacts the WS. The goal of plan B is to slow down the withdrawal from your love bank by your W as she continues to act contrary to the marriage. The idea being that most A end, and many end within 6 months or so, others take longer. If you run out of love for your W before it happens, it really doesn't matter if it does happen. Also since you will then be essentially dealing with a drug addict fighting withdrawal symptoms you need considerable love and endurance to deal with that. You don't want an empty tank.

I would highly recommend you call the Harley's especially given your position. It is sort of like a MD treating himself. He can but he has a fool for a patient. It may be pricey but it will probably be the best couple hundred bucks you could spend.

God Bless,

JL

Please keep posting information about your plan and your actions. It is amazing how much you can learn from the feedback you will receive. My thoughts are with you and your family. Stay strong.

Oh so familiar words from someone who kept my head on straight and gave me strength.
Laker, I think of you often. You don't post much and I wish you would.

Sorry to intercept, I saw the opportunity and I took it.

Hi Vittoria,
I think a little t/j is ok now and then. I think of you often also and read your posts when I see them. Sounds like you are moving along; I'm always interested in your comments too.