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I can only give you my betrayed spouse view. This is want I need, Vittoria. I can't know what my BH or any BS is thinking so your input is invaluable. Thank you so much for taking an interest and sharing your perspective.
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You and the OM RAPED your husband and now you want to tell your husband that you wish his rapist WELL???
First of all, what in the world are you doing having thoughts of the OM???
Why are you even REMEMBERING the day you conspired to rape your husband??? I have no plans to tell my H this. When I've been triggered lately, instead of being angry as much as I have been, I find myself more hoping that whatever is needed for their family to heal is happening. I don't dwell on if's or what's any more -- I think about them, but don't linger there like I used to. I actually think it's a step forward from the bitter place where I was -- instead hoping now that BW and FOM are doing whatever is the best for their family. I deeply regret the damage I caused that family and want to be less selfish and not make it about me and my anger toward FOM. I'd rather any triggers instead turn to positive ju-ju, not bad stuff -- hope they're doing whatever they need to get through this, then get back to my thoughts that have nothing to do with them. Look, I know the ideal is that FOM and BW never come to mind again. I'm heading into a few months here where it will be really rough -- many markers and reminders of the liar and the cheat that I was. And I couldn't have done those things without the FOM. So yes, unfortunately, he is still coming up in my brain. When he does, I'll aknowledge it, then push it away as best I can. Knock it off and get back to being the new you offering the new marriage. (That was subtle.) I'm really really trying. Really. I mean, really. Even so...  Thank you.
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Thank you, everyone. The consensus is not to tell H. So I won't. And if something really sets me off, high-tale it to a private place and/or journal.
Got it. Gracias.
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bigkahuna,
Thanks for the advice on the Exposure thread. It really depends on the day. As I've stated before I usually let that stuff roll off my back though sometimes it really stings. For whatever reason, the comments from him brought out the fighter in me and I felt compelled to defend myself. Usually, I walk away, feeling the sensitivity of many MBers is more important than me getting in another swing. But I couldn't type fast enough in responding to him. I may have been out of line, but I gotta admit it felt good.
(Does this mean I'm developing boundaries or am I just grumpy?)
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Thank you, everyone. The consensus is not to tell H. So I won't. And if something really sets me off, high-tale it to a private place and/or journal.
Got it. Gracias. 
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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L4, How's it going? Do people who live by the park think there is a crazy woman out there? Take care.
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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LOL, Vittoria. I dunno about the park's residents. I know I'm crazy so that's all that really matters, right?  I'm okay. I lost it twice this past weekend. Kept my breakdowns to myself. I can't get over what a freakin', selfish, unonscionable, idiot I was. H left this morning for business and won't be back until late Friday night. It seems lately that we're not talking as much. And when we do, I seem to start the conversations. We're together, but I feel that I'm initiating interaction more than H. Much more. He doesn't deny me when I reach out conversationally or physically, but he's quite quiet and being a bit more distant. Speding time in other rooms of the house than where I am or going outside or running numerous errands. It was odd yesterday because H said he was going to the drugstore not even a half mile away and did I need anything. I said no. After an hour-and-a-half, I called him asking when he'd be home as dinner was ready. He said he was at the mall and would be home in 10 minutes. (The mall is no where near the drugstore.) Then later that evening he said to me, "I have to go to the drugstore, do you need anything?" ??? He returned and I asked, "What did you have to get from the drugstore?" He listed random cold medicine and stuff, so it wasn't anything like a prescription that he needed to go back for. I said, "Didn't you go earlier today?" He said, "Yep," and just smiled an I'm-not-saying-anything-more-smile. Couple his quiet with his recent disinterest of SF and I wonder where he is inside. Last night I crawled into bed without clothes and made myself available. H didn't bite. That was a first since my confession. We had great SF Friday night and Saturday morning, but he hasn't gone for it since, even when I've flat out offered. (I don't think we've gone more than 2 days without in recent months.) Now he's gone until Friday. He says he'll IM me at night. I said I'd like to talk with him too. He said, "We'll see." This morning I told H how much I'm going to miss him. A bit later I asked if he'll miss me. He said, "Probably," then quickly added, "I'm really going to miss the kids." So that felt good. Huh? I've learned not to expect an "I love you," back when I say it to him. I wrote him a card and hid it in his suitcase to find when he unpacks tonight. We don't celebrate Valentine's Day (his choice, not mine) so I asked if H wants to this year. He said we can do something if I want to but I need to plan it and he doesn't want to go to a fancy restaurant. Not a ringing endorsement, really. Now I don't know if I should ignore the whole thing (other than a card), plan something out of the house, or do something simple here with the kids? The few restaurants I've called are all booked so I dunno... I'm having problems with some of the treads here today. Some WSs are messing up bigtime, taking their BSs back to square one. I want to reach through the screen and clobber these WSs and I feel so badly for the BSs. I want to respond to the BSs that I'm feeling for them but being as how I'm a FWW, I probably have zero credibility. I understand why. Yikes. I need good news. The sun is coming out now so that's helps. But if you have something positive to say about anything, please share with me. Otherwise there's a pint of coffee Häagen-Dazs at a store somewhere with my name on it.
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I've got some thoughts to share but don't have the time at this moment.
I'll be back in few hours.
Take care
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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What can I say to my H when I feel distance between us? Can I say anything? I don't want to say, "What's wrong?" because I think that's ludicrous considering we know what's wrong. I'm being fun and happy, the wife I hope he wants to be with. But is it right to be dancing with the kids and doing his laundry with a smile if he's not seeming very happy? Will he think I'm being insensitive?
Anyone?... How can I get him to share with me?
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It seems lately that we're not talking as much. And when we do, I seem to start the conversations. We're together, but I feel that I'm initiating interaction more than H. Much more. He doesn't deny me when I reach out conversationally or physically, but he's quite quiet and being a bit more distant. Speding time in other rooms of the house than where I am or going outside or running numerous errands. *** Your H is behind me time wise. I have felt like that lately. It seems I am processing more of what has really happened. It needs to be processed. Let him choose when to be around you. Didn't you mention awhile back that he was thinking of seeking IC ? I need my H to keep reassuring me that I am the most important thing in his life. I'm not sure if you will understand this, I am not liking myself for feeling this way but here it goes ... I don't like to see my H sad, but I don't like to see him too happy either, it makes me think he has swept this all under the rug. So it's okay to be happy, just keep reinforcing how much you love him and not just saying it. Different ways of affection, actions. It was odd yesterday because H said he was going to the drugstore not even a half mile away and did I need anything. I said no. After an hour-and-a-half, I called him asking when he'd be home as dinner was ready. He said he was at the mall and would be home in 10 minutes. (The mall is no where near the drugstore.) Then later that evening he said to me, "I have to go to the drugstore, do you need anything?" ??? He returned and I asked, "What did you have to get from the drugstore?" He listed random cold medicine and stuff, so it wasn't anything like a prescription that he needed to go back for. I said, "Didn't you go earlier today?" He said, "Yep," and just smiled an I'm-not-saying-anything-more-smile. *** Well, Valentine's Day is coming up. I'm not sure if I would read too much into that one just yet. This morning I told H how much I'm going to miss him. A bit later I asked if he'll miss me. He said, "Probably," then quickly added, "I'm really going to miss the kids." So that felt good. Huh? *** Honestly, I would not want my H to ask me something (yet) that should require a positive answer. Since you aren't sure of his disposition, don't set yourself up for disappointment. Someone else may have a different take on this. I will tell my H ILY when I feel comfortable, and when I don't, I don't say it. I've learned not to expect an "I love you," back when I say it to him. *** It will come in time, have patience with all of this. It's really hard to get over betrayal. I find it hard to accept my H's words as being genuine. Actually seems harder now than 2 months ago, not sure why. I wrote him a card and hid it in his suitcase to find when he unpacks tonight. *** That is wonderful and sweet and loving. He may not acknowledge the note but I'm sure he'll have a smile on his face when he sees it. This is an act of affection like what I was referring to. We don't celebrate Valentine's Day (his choice, not mine) so I asked if H wants to this year. He said we can do something if I want to but I need to plan it and he doesn't want to go to a fancy restaurant. Not a ringing endorsement, really. *** But is it any different from past Valentine's Day, his reaction I mean ? Now I don't know if I should ignore the whole thing (other than a card), plan something out of the house, or do something simple here with the kids? *** Valentine's Day is for sweethearts, it's not a family day  I would get a sitter for the kids and have a romantic dinner at home ... you don't cook do you, well even if you order in from that restaurant that you like. But make sure you put everything into your own serving dishes so it looks homemade.  Or you could cook what he likes and what you cook well. A mushy card and chocolate truffle should be sitting on his plate. I would love all of that from my H. I'm having problems with some of the treads here today. Some WSs are messing up bigtime, taking their BSs back to square one. *** I know, it's been really bringing me down too. I have to stay away from those threads right now. Sometimes it's hard to know if I am down because of my sitch or because of the reminder that false recoveries really do happen. Scares the h3ll out me. Otherwise there's a pint of coffee Häagen-Dazs at a store somewhere with my name on it. *** I've never tried that one, I hear ya I hope this helps, this is my perspective on this day, next week it could change. Another BS may have a different one. I think you are doing great, hang in there
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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Thank you, V. H has the name of an IC, but he hasn't made any contact and while I'm hoping he does, I'm not holding my breath. H IMed me tonight about the card in his bag. He typed, "Thanks for thinking of me." H called shortly after through Skype. He was responding to emails so we just kind of sat on the phone together (we don't have video cameras attached). I brought up seeing his uncle at the store, how the kids and I did a fun experiment and our hands are died blue, how it might snow tonight... He talked only about work, which is understandable since that's why he's away. Finally he said, "Well, I should get some sleep. Gotta go. Good night." And that was that. I need my H to keep reassuring me that I am the most important thing in his life. I'm not sure if you will understand this, I am not liking myself for feeling this way but here it goes ... I don't like to see my H sad, but I don't like to see him too happy either, it makes me think he has swept this all under the rug. So it's okay to be happy, just keep reinforcing how much you love him and not just saying it. Different ways of affection, actions. I totally understand and am highly sensitive to this. It's what I was asking about just a couple of posts ago. What is that balance between being a positive energy that's attractive while not being insensitive to the crap he's having to process because of me? But is it any different from past Valentine's Day, his reaction I mean ? His reaction wasn't much different than other years. We came to a compromise in '96 -- after he did nothing at all and we had quite an argument. We agreed we won't make a big deal about the day and not submit to its commercialism, but we will aknowledge it in some way, even if just a card. So while I feel like I want to do something because of all we've been through, I don't know if out of habit, if we should do nothing exceptional just like the 13 Valentine's Days of recent past. I don't want H to feel like I'm trying to manipulate him nor do I want to set up unrealisic expectations. It always does. Merci.
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What can I say to my H when I feel distance between us? Can I say anything? I don't want to say, "What's wrong?" because I think that's ludicrous considering we know what's wrong. I'm being fun and happy, the wife I hope he wants to be with. But is it right to be dancing with the kids and doing his laundry with a smile if he's not seeming very happy? Will he think I'm being insensitive?
Anyone?... How can I get him to share with me? He may not want to share his thoughts right now. I seem to be sharing them in my own head and on this forum. I have found that reading HNHN with each other has allowed for some open discussion of honest feelings. This is part of our 15 hrs. together time. In the good moments and the awkward moments, hug your H, hold his hand or his arm, and just let him know that this is where you want to be and how grateful you are to have him. If at anytime he wants to talk, listen and listen and listen without judging. Has he been better at not name calling and hurtful stabs? You are right to not ask him 'what's wrong', for the reason you stated. I used to have this in my sig line .... Patience, patience, patience .... I can do this , I can do this, I can do this. I have since replaced it , but you can have it now if you want Take care for now. TTL.
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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Has he been better at not name calling and hurtful stabs? Yes, he's better. A couple of light stingers my way, but no figurative fists to the gut since I voiced my boundary a couple of weeks ago. I used to have this in my sig line .... Patience, patience, patience .... I can do this , I can do this, I can do this. I have since replaced it , but you can have it now if you want I'll take it, V. Much appreciated.
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Couple his quiet with his recent disinterest of SF and I wonder where he is inside. Last night I crawled into bed without clothes and made myself available. H didn't bite. That was a first since my confession. We had great SF Friday night and Saturday morning, but he hasn't gone for it since, even when I've flat out offered. (I don't think we've gone more than 2 days without in recent months.) Now he's gone until Friday. He says he'll IM me at night. I said I'd like to talk with him too. He said, "We'll see."
This morning I told H how much I'm going to miss him. A bit later I asked if he'll miss me. He said, "Probably," then quickly added, "I'm really going to miss the kids." So that felt good. Huh? Looking4, Even though it's not going the way that you hoped for it is going the way it usually goes... You remember how I mentioned that your husband wanted you to feel some of the insecurity that he felt during your affair? How's he doing? Yep, that's what this is about along with a big dose of hysterical bonding with the SF that is now turning into OK I'm not losing her to the OM so what exactly do I have with her? THAT'S WHEN YOU STEP IN AND SHOW HIM WHAT HE'S GOT!!! THE NEW YOU OFFERING THE NEW MARRIAGE!!! Don't listen to his babble about he doesn't know this or know that... HE WANTS YOU TO DO IT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO... YOU are the one that makes the plans for Valentine's Day... YOU get the sitters... YOU run the double bath with the candles...  YOU make the reservations for the hotel... if not affordable the kids stay with the sitter overnight... YOU show him he is WORTH MORE THAN THE OM OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER!!! When he is convinced that YOU are sincere HE will join you and stop testing you with this baloney of going to the drug store, I don't know when I'll be home, etc. ALL of this is to see if you will bail and go back to the old you... Don't bite on it... SHOW HIM YOU WANT HIM AND NEED HIM... Because he is checking you out... ARE YOU REAL??? IF YOU ARE NOT GIVING HIM MORE THAN YOU DID THE OM IN ACTS OF APPRECIATION AND DESIRE HE WILL CONTINUE TO TEST YOU UNTIL YOU DO... OR HE SAYS I WILL NOT SETTLE FOR SECOND PLACE... AND HE BAILS... YOU CONTROL THIS, NOT HIM... Because if he wanted to leave he already would have... He's looking for a reason to stay... Give him one. God bless. Jim
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Looking4, Just wanted to share a with you that happened yesterday with my wife and I... We had gone to pick up some ranch supplies in the truck at the store that we go to on a regular basis. We always sit side by side and when we pulled in the older couple that ran the store were smiling... I asked them what was up? They laughed and she said "Oh, I just told my husband, here come the honeymooners!".  Looking4, Remember how I said my wife and I ran our marriage off of the road fighting over the wheel or else nobody wanted to drive? Sweetie, It's your turn to drive... Jim
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Looking4, You and I are kindred spirits. It is unbelievable how much our situations mirror each other (with some minute differences). God had definitely made sure that our paths crossed for a reason. I'm honored that you're here for me, too.
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Looking4, Remember how I said my wife and I ran our marriage off of the road fighting over the wheel or else nobody wanted to drive?
Sweetie, It's your turn to drive... I love this story, Jim. Thanks for sharing. Hi, Sparky. I came here for the quiet. With H gone, I'm checking out a bunch of posts -- many that I probably wouldn't otherwise take the time to read, just to see what's going on and what I can learn from others. I gotta say... There must be something in the water these last few days as there are folks on here who are being straight up-nasty -- making really uncalled for judgements, generalizations, and comments. I had to come here to my home turf just to get back to my reality as it's nuts out there today. Ey-karumba! :MrEEk:
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I have thought some WS's may have been scared away when they first came here. How does that help their marraige and BS?
I have been hard on some new BH's here. Seeing fear paralyze them from doing what has to be done. These BH's tend to take the two by fours better. They sense their marriage is in danger even when their in deep denial. MB is the only long straw for them to grasp at the pile they are reaching for. So they stay.
The new WS's already has the foot out the door of their marriage. Their in bailout mode when they came here. Their not ambivilant about staying with the status quo of their marriage. Their leaning in favor of continuing their affair if not divorce.
Maybe these WS' came here briefly to be able to say "well I tried". So they can justify to themselves that they did everything to save the marriage.
Did you feel you were treate harsh when you first came here?
From what I remember I thought you were not.
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It is unbelievable how much our situations mirror each other (with some minute differences). Shows just how typical most affairs really are. When in one it feels special. Once you step away and see how like every other common garden variety affair it really is the special starts to melt away. Learning that it was not special or unique is the first step to understanding how to prevent it from happening again. It helps take away the magic and label an affair for what it really is...not something that was imposed that was irresistible but a decision that was made. Some of what takes place around here happens because of the same dynamic that takes place in a marriage soon after D-day. In cases where a WS comes here and posts with an attitude of "I can't believe I did THIS" the reaction from most BS is usually pretty benign if not encouraging. These marriages stand a pretty good chance. Even if lumber is forthcoming for some attitude, these are the ones who quickly get it that the affair happened because they, the WS, did it. Then there are the posts full of justification, self centered complaining about how bad the BS was, how great OP is, and coming across as "Woe is me..." These are the ones that quickly get 2X4'd into either a change in personality or a change in venue as they sulk off to find a more coddling environment. To be honest I can't recall seeing anyone who left in a huff, or in a minute and a huff , who returned later to report a saved marriage. My guess is that there is nothing that these people can be told that would help any way (is that a DJ? :MrEEk: ) and so leaving is more because they seek further justification than because anyone said anything specific to them. Some BS get pummeled when they arrive because they flounder around, don't read enough to learn that they aren't THAT unique and refuse to follow advice though they continue to ask for it. If after about 3 months they still haven't followed the most basic of recommendations they too usually drift off, sometimes returning later to report that divorce is imminent and at times claiming to already have found the perfect replacement for their STBX. These people were an affair of their own waiting to happen and nobody here was going to be able to help them save their marriage because they refused to accept any responsibility for their own actions or lack thereof. After being here a while and seeing some false recoveries, often up close and personal in your own life, you develop this bovine excrement detector that alarms at a mere whiff if any bull is in the vicinity. I call it deja moo...I've heard THIS bull before. Which leads right back to the idea that in all affairs there are more things in common than there are unique...
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I had (what I thought to be anyway) a good post for you and then somehow lost it  so this one will be okay at best b/c I can't remember the first  You remember how I mentioned that your husband wanted you to feel some of the insecurity that he felt during your affair? * I feel exactly that way, not nice but accurate. And yet I remain, as does your H Yep, that's what this is about along with a big dose of hysterical bonding with the SF that is now turning into OK I'm not losing her to the OM so what exactly do I have with her? * I can relate to this one too. I look forward to the passion returning, b/c I am still here, as is your H. Don't listen to his babble about he doesn't know this or know that... * Yes, we can babble as good as the best, don't take it personally. YOU are the one that makes the plans for Valentine's Day... * YES,YES,YES you are celebrating a new and better M. YOU show him he is WORTH MORE THAN THE OM OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER!!! * Exactly what we BS's need ... monumental When he is convinced that YOU are sincere HE will join you and stop testing you with this baloney of going to the drug store, I don't know when I'll be home, etc. *okay I don't do this so I was being optimistic, but it makes sense. L4, your H is still here b/c he wants to be. We all have the option of leaving, but we stay for a reason. We still have enough love left to believe it can be great ... in time. We just have to get over our own hurdles. You have the benefit of helping your H more than he does, thru this forum. Soooooo, what do you have planned for VD ???
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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