Hi all,

Well, I've been lurking and learning here at MB for a few months now. Thanks for all the support and very useful information and opinions I've found here. It has been an incredible bounty to have the support you have provided.
So, I'm finally posting because like everyone I guess, my situation is unique and haven't found any posts of a similar sitch. If anyone can point me in the right direction BTW, please do.

Here is my situation in brief:

Married 16 years
together 18

Me: 40
Wife: 36
Son: 8

separated
Divorce imminent.


I find myself in the classic position of a gullible and duped BS. She needed space and trusting me, let her have it. She says she just doesn't want to be married any more. I've had a desire from the beginning to try to stay married or at least talk about what led to this point. And the fact is at this point as much as there is some attachment and desire to try to make things work for myself and for our son on my part, I'm not sure I want to stay married either.

Our faith requires us to have a Year of Separation before a divorce can be finalized. The purpose of the year is cooling down, trying to learn about ourselves and either working on the marriage or preparing for divorce. It's a bit complicated. But suffice it to say, we started in August and I found out about her A in October.
She is in the UK (where she is from) doing her PhD at University. I have stayed at home in US with our son as he is comfortable in school and we have a support network in place and we decided together that it would be unwise to move him at this juncture.

Since finding out about the A, I tried Plan A for about 2 months. (not very long, I know) I think I did a decent job. Not always though. Man is it difficult when you're also trying to deal with the pain and hurt of being betrayed! As well as physical separation.

I am now in Plan B. Well, not precisely because this is not Plan B to try to repair the marriage or stop the affair. Although, I hope that might be a side effect. I have decided that I can't do anything at this point to change her mind or change her. All I can do is take care of myself and do whatever I can to make sure that our son is also taken care of in the healthiest way possible given the circumstances. It is Plan B for ME. I need the time to heal and deal. I think in the long run it will be best for our family - as it will exist. That's my logical/rational side talking...

I go from feeling like I still want to be with her - inspite of problems, she's been my best friend for a long time - to feeling like I just don't want to have anything to do with her. And then I get angry because I know I have to have some kind of relationship with her because of our son. As of right now we have been able to maintain certain commitments to our son for his emotional well being in working through all this and she has not as of yet given me any reason to mistrust her in this regard. (Other than the massive one of having an affair) As difficult as it's been, we don't fight in his presence or in earshot. Being far apart helps.

Useful website for anyone interested: www.uptoparents.org

Our son doesn't know about the A. While our decision as of now is to get the divorce. We want to do all we can to care for our son while our family changes. She says she wants to remain friends. But really what I think she wants right now is the best of all possible worlds. She wants the OP. She wants her son. And she wants me to remain her friend.

This is the difficult part for me because I need to find a way to remain her friend. I would like to. But the fact is I feel like I need something from her in order to do this. Something she doesn't seem to be willing to give because she doesn't want to be married anymore and that seems final so why should she? Hmm? She has even said she wants to rebuild my trust in her. But she has as of yet done nothing in this regard.
Most of the advice here seems to apply to a situation in which people are trying to stay married and reconcile. I imagine a lot of that process might apply to my situation still but I just don't know. I just wonder how things might be different in my situation. I imagine when she comes out of the fog, she'll be able to see things more clearly and we might be able to come to some terms on this. But my fear is I don't know when that will happen and I feel like I still have a duty to protect my son until she can see things clearly.

Sorry I've rambled quite a bit. The situation is complicated. I'm sure I've left out key points and repeated myself frequently...


- Any suggestions about how to handle the child issue. Neither of us wants to put him or ourselves through a custody battle. Other than the pain he must go through in seeing his parents divorce we don't want to do him any further harm. But I also don't want the OP to be a part of his life AT ALL.

- I feel like if she truly wants to remain friends - and she has expressed this - I still need something from her. I need some kind of gesture of trust and honesty from her. But I don't know what this is given that divorce is imminent and I guess her life is none of my business anymore except as it might effect our son. What can I do to help her end her affair? Is it even justified or worthwhile if we are getting divorced anyway? I know it is for our son's sake - but what about me? I need something too. I know Dr. Harley talks about 'just compensation'. What would that be in this case, if not for a marriage, then for a partnership as parents?

Anyone been through a similar sitch? Any advice or thoughts welcome.

Whatever you do, tell your son the truth and that none of it is his fault.

My 7-year-old son knows his mom cheated on me, and has for over a year. I felt he needed to know why his dad was so much more moody, and what all the fights had been about.

"Mom got a boyfriend, and moms aren't supposed to do that. It hurt dad's feelings really bad."

Any child that can comprehend the truth about their parents' divorce deserves to know what that truth is.

Just an FYI, you don't have a custody issue. For all intents and purposes, she's abandoned the family to pursue personal goals in another country. She's not supporting you or your son in any way, is she? From what I can tell, you have the high ground, don't give it up no matter what. You know what's best for your son and she's given you the legal ammo to force the issue if need be.

T

dana

You have read here. So have you exposed?

I have exposed.

In fact, I think she was so scared of the possibility of losing access to our son when I found out, that she told her sister and parents. She got hell from all of them.

But the 'friendship' continued/continues....
Classic A fog, addiction and justification from what I understand.

She has said she's trying to have less contact. Only time will tell I guess...

Danayy,

Sorry you are here. I am also sorry that things look like they are headed for divorce. You said
Lilldoggie, posted a great quote that really addresses this situation.
I just love that quote. You should be "civil" if/when she becomes your ex. Friends is a higher standard than she is likely to be able to reach. Friends don't lie, they don't cheat, and they keep their obligations. I don't see your W making any of those lists if she divorces you as she can then never make up for what she has done and offer data to overcome what she has done.

Please keep reading here, especially Harley's articles. You will learn a great deal about relationships and what makes them successful and fail.

By the way how much longer does she have to finish her PhD? How long as she been in the UK?

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Danay,

You are in a very unique situation, but let me advise you that the path of action for a BH is the same regardless of whether or not he wants to save his marriage or divorce.

The key issue here is your son.

You must protect him from an immoral woman and from OM. What must you do?

Again, the actions are the same whether you wish to save your marriage or not.

For starters, you and your wife need to eliminate the delusion that you will be friends if you divorce. It doesn't happen. It's a fantasy Hollywood likes to feed people, but is seriously never happens.

Why? Because you've been stabbed in the back in a major way. Right now you're caught in denial and have "hope" that the fog lifts and the woman you fell in love with returns.

It's not going to happen.

What happens is that as time goes by and you heal, you'll go through stages of grief.

The first one is shock and denial. And you are in denial. Denial comes from not accepting the very harsh reality you're in. Why do I say you're in denial? Because you're hanging on to this idea you will be friends with this woman when this is all over.

You won't. Men who think like you are suckered by women into "being nice" which basically means "do as I say and be a good boy and don't put up a fight and we may be able to be friends and I'll let you see your son when I decide you can. Now come over and hold hands with me and my new man and all of us, inculding our son, can hold hands around the table and sing Kumbaya."

It's part of the WW fog. Part of the BS fog is the idea that this is some stage where the WW will wakeup.

There is only one thing I have ever seen WWes respond to and that is the fact that they are going to lose custody of their kids and are facing a man who is not doing as she desires.

That's the ONLY thing I have ever seen work. No WW here has ever just "snapped out of it".

I also don't know of any situation where the WW and BH are friends after all is over and with OM in the picture. Never. Not one single time.

So what do you do?

Again, the steps are the same for every BH regardless of whether he wants to save his marriage or divorce.

The first thing you must do is draft a Plan B letter. Let her know that all contact is going to be cutoff as long as she continues her affair. You tell her you love her and want to save the marriage, but that this affair must end, NC is established for life, and she committs to the marriage.

That's the easy part.

The next step is to protect you. You file for custody of your son on the grounds of abandonment.

You have a gift in the fact that she left the home to pursue her own goals.

You should be talking to a lawyer. You have custody of your son already. Now you're just making things official.

A 50/50 arrangement can be made if she comes home and decides to be a part of your son's life.

But hardball is all that works with a WW. First part of lifting the fog, and the most important part, is the lifting of the fantasy that you will be friends and all will be just peachy if she continues to behave as she is.

Trust me. It's the ONLY thing I have ever seen work.

Letting her know that you will never be friends with her if you divorce is the first step towards recovery.

Then, while your lawyer prepares you to get custody, you can be Mr. Nice guy to her as long as she's your wife and you desire to save your marriage.

So what will you do? Inaction will get you nowhere. "Hoping" is not a plan.

File for abandonment, get custody of your son, explain to him that Mommy has a boyfriend and that isn't allowed when you're married, and for heaven's sake, don't let her take him out of the country.

If you do that, you'll lose him forever because divorced father's are treated like chopped liver in the UK. I lived there for 3 years and witnessed the sad sight of men dressed like comic book characters storming the halls of Parliament to protest the fact that they never got to see their kids.

That's their own countrymen. You as a Yank? Don't stand a chance.

So the stakes are high and the stakes in the game are very high.

Wake up from the shock and denial and take action. Trust me, the time will come when you won't feel anything for your WW, but the relationship with your son will never die unless you walk away from it or let her take him from you.

Most important advice on your thread by far.

Do not let DS leave the US, for any reason. Not even if accompanied by you! Not even to Canada until after you have full legal custody.

I think you should talk to a lawyer even before a Plan B letter. Make sure you do not tip her off to your plans, or otherwise give her additional incentive to strike first.


Damn, deja vue all over again.

Thanks all for your advice. These are some of the things I've been considering but need to hear from people that have been there, done that...

Tough stuff. But this whole terrible mess is hell.

You and your almost-ex need to do what is best for your son. That means, being adults, and making some painful decisions. One of you has to live separately from him. It sounds as though your son is comfortable in the school he is in. Your son needs all of the stability you and your wife can provide.

Unfotunately, his wife cannot provide any stability as she is runnign around like a cat in heat and cant seem to put her marriage and family (which includes her son) first!

So, he will have to get full custody immediately and protect his son from much of her actions, until such day that she might pull her head out.

Danay,

I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt and the scars. I got fed the same bs lines about staying friends and having us all sit down together somedays as one big happy group.

It came from a woman who destroyed our family, betrayed the children and I, and took advantage of the emotional state of a man who had just gotten off the plane after coming home from the war.

Somehow I was supposed to want to stay friends after all that.

You know what i told her one time when she was giving me her, "I'm being nice to you" crap?

I told her that it was the equivalent of taking a knife, cutting my stomach open and gutting me and THEN asking me to be grateful that she put my guts back in, patched me up, gave me a bed to lie down on and treated my wound. Heck, even that is a generous analogy since her version of being nice was about the equivalent of giving me the bandaids and needles to have me patch myself up.

Don't for one second believe you will be friends with her because that is what she wants.

Your feelings for her will die down over time and anger is a stage which kicks in. It's ugly. It's the worst stage of the whole process and it is one many people get stuck in or have burnouts in. The guy who shot all his in laws and burned his house down while wearing a Santa Suit? Anger stage.

The difference between him and everyone else is that most people have the self discipline to not act on their anger.

Believe me when I tell you when you go through the anger stage that being friends will be the last thing on your mind.

After you've been through the process you'll get to a new stage and it's the one you want to get to. It's indifference. You really won't care if she drops off the face of the earth or if she's happy or sad or not. You'll simply not care.

But you MUST secure your rights as a father and tough love is the only thing that WWes understand. It's the only thing they respond to and the only thing which helps lift the fog.

You should also be doing everything you can to make OM's life miserable so he goes away. Sue him for alienation of affection, if you can.

POM is correct. And I would tell her that you can be married or apart. But never just friends. That is NOT a possiblity.

Dont encourage the fog. She expects to get everything her fog is telling her she is entitled to. Let her know you will not help.

Thanks for that!

She basically has 2 more years to finish her PhD. She has been in the UK pretty much since our separation - August.

I feel after hearing some advice - and of course, I will now be talking to a lawyer - that unless she can show me some way to trust her, that I will have to find a way to keep my son with me.

It's interesting that since I haven't been speaking to her, I've had a chance to evaluate things with a more open mind free from the distraction of figuring out how to interact. My anger at her is more prevalent, now that I'm not trying to compromise with myself and figure out how to get her back in my life. More and more I feel I don't want to be friends until she can find a way to give me a reason to take that step.

You're right in that I have to just consider it a death in the family and move on from there. My own mother has given me similar advice.

MM and I have very similar viewpoints on how to handle a WW. The difference between us is that he actually implemented his plan while I learned the hard way that everything I did was wrong. The lessons I learned came from my failure to do what I wish NOW that I had done back then. His lessons come from the fact that he actually implemented all the right moves from the start.

It took 3 years of a long and costly legal battle for me to secure my rights as a father.

He had the wisdom to do that right away.

He saved his marriage. I did not.

I attribute the fact that I never had a chance to save my marriage to the fact that I simply laid down and let her do everything she wanted without resistance because I had hope this was all just temporary insanity on her part. I was an enabler.

MM, on the other hand, was firm from the start and stayed strong.

Don't get me wrong. We both hurt big time and had our share of crying fits. The difference is that he kept his wits about him and I didn't.

I'm a bit more of a pessimist in terms of people, especially BHes, being able to save their marriages. But the advice by both of us is given to men with the hopes that at a minimum they protect their rights as fathers. That is MY passion. His approach is to also protect fathers AND hopefully lift the fog to help the WW come back OR to prepare you the BH to move forward.

I'm simply letting you know where we're both coming from. I'm very glad to see him jump on your thread.

So....

Have a lawyer yet?

This is good. But I still hear some wishy-washiness (I know, that isnt a word!) in your posts.

Please remember that you are either married or you are not. Which means your wife becomes a wife and mother again, or she doesnt. And a woman that would do these things to her husband and son should not be your friend.

Cordial in dealing with your son? Yes. A friend? No. It should be limited to generic talk about yuor son and what is best for him. Matter of fact stuff. And then when she wants to have friendly talk, you just leave the room or get off the phone.

YOU are the only sane parent your son has. Do not let her have much influence over your son, if you can have a say in that. And I believe you can, by getting full custody NOW! Dont wait until she returns. File now, have all your ducks in a row.

What state do you live in?

POM is correct. Which is why, at this point in the game, yo uwill see very little difference in our advice!!

Danayy,

Here is the odd thing. If you go to the lawyer and obtain full custody of your son. If you protect yourself financally, if you work on being a good dad, man, person. You actually may up your chances of reconcilliation...IF YOU DECIDE YOU WANT IT.

Deal from strength and please do remember Lil's quote. You don't need a corpse in the closet, you need a partner. Your W is not that.

God Bless,

JL

Mortarman and POM are right - you need to secure your rights as a father. With her out of the country and in "affair" land, now is the time to do it!

- file for full custody on the grounds of abandonment

- line up a separation agreement

- file for child support!

- WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT TAKE YOUR CHILD OUT OF THE COUNTRY! There was an awesome Dateline NBC last Friday about a man whose WAW took the child to Brazil, died, and he is still fighting to see his kid after 5 years.

If you child has a passport, secure it where WW can't get it. If he doesn't, secure the birth certificates.

Most WW's on this board WANT the BH to roll over and let her have the OM replace the BH as the father figure in the kids life.

POM and Mortarman have been through the wars - MM went at it in a position of strength - he played chicken with his wife and won.

POM did what most BH do - they rolled over at first before they realized what was going on. He's been fighting an uphill battle ever since. I'm somewhere in between.

I'm in California.

Thanks for keeping me off the wishy-washy wagon. Keep 'em comin. I've done that sh-- all my life. Mr. nice guy... And I've paid for it.