No. I'm not saying this, mindshare. I am asking whether a signed legal agreement is worth the paper it is printed on, even when drawn up by solicitors and witnessed in all the proper ways. What action will the French courts take to enforce it if WH does the nasty? What power would an Irish court have to make the French court enforce the agreement and seize the children?

The message I have been getting is that courts tend to leave the children where they are, despite the other parent's legal rights. tully has this advantage now and must hang on to it until ORDERED by a court to let the children visit their father. She must not give the advantage to her H. Let the courts deal with her H's contempt should he disobey a court order to return them to Ireland. A legal separation agreement is surely not a court order - he might not be in contempt if he reneges on it.

Other than that minor disagreement, I think you're a wonderful supporter of tully's, mindshare!

Hmmmmm. That's a very good point.

In Australia the police are powerless to act when there has been a breach of a custody order. They actually have to go to court and apply for orders to approach the other parent and ask for the children back. The penalties are participation in parenting programs, payment of a bond, fines through to imprisonment.

Courts generally will not act as quickly even with all the official boxes ticked. I would be really nervous about sending the children to France if I were you unless the court orders you to do so or unless you travel with the children and play happy families for the weekend.

It is possible, I do that now to keep the peace and a watchful eye on my children but it's not for everyone.

Take care Tully. I'm thinking of you!!!

I'm with 2M2L on this.

As things stand, Tully's WH would have as much right to keep the girls in France as Tully had to take them to Ireland. I don't know how much a legal separation would alter that.

Even with a divorce in place and Tully as the custodial parent, if the girls were kept in France I think it might take a very long time to recover them through the legal system.

I'm not even convinced that Tully accompanying them would solve the problem. It would be one Tully, at least three of the 'enemy', and four children to cover, all in a foreign country.

Personally, I'd refuse to let him have them, on the basis of his having retained the services of a person with a track record of aggressive father's rights. That was a big misjudgement on his part, and there are consequences that come from that.

I'd also look into the possibility of making the girls Irish citizens, for greater legal protection in the long run.

I wouldn't let them leave the country with him under any circumstances.

TA

To tell the truth, I had more respect (little ammount that was)
for Tully's WH before the "Pro Negotiator". It shows his desperate mentallity, and quite frankly, WH "tipped his had" by having that nut job threaten you, Tully. He (WH) is showing you his integrity about this divorce, that is a great piece of information for you to have up front. I wish my sis knew her XH was going to be such an a$$ before her divorce.

Tho I'm afraid he (WH) will deny any wrongdoing- so I wouldn't even talk to him about it.

Good job on finding his (the mediator's) back story.

Your counsel can help you better with this descision, but I thought you might promise to work on France trips with the girls as a carrot to get WH to agree to LSA. You can always cross your fingers. As alwlays, you can point your finger at counsel, that's what you pay the big bucks for, and say "I'm taking their advice".

I am concerned for your well being. You sound active and have a GREAT BU(( SH*t meeter on you-- I am so glad you have your fam. they sound great!

Remember my "Pringles rule"...
you got all the chips.
he wants chips.
why on earth would you give him any?

Take care!~ bump.bump

Hello all, a quick lightening visit to the library before an appointment with the bank to set up a business account. (BTW, mindshare, I picked up our first payment this morning and it felt great! It's on sale or return and only one muffin fell apart so no wastage either)

Just to reassure you, I won't let the girls go to France unless I feel at ease with the situation but I am hoping that a legal separation will be sufficient to deter him from keeping the girls there. He would find it very difficult to put them back in their old school as everyone in our village is supportive of me and they think he is a complete a££hole. WH is taking the girls this weekend from Sat until Tues as they have two days off school. He sent me an email recently saying that 'his conscience is cleaner and cleaner by the day'. I didn't reply and I'm trying to keep my communication with him to a minimum and as civil and polite as possible.

I've been very busy lately with the new house, new business and generally coping but as soon as I move into the new house things should settle down a lot.
Thanks barbie, one thing that has changed a lot for me in recent times is that I am trusting my instincts a lot more. My instincts told me that something was wrong for over a year before I found out about the A but I kept telling myself that it was me, that I was imagining things and WH kept telling me I was paranoid. Now I know I should have listened to those instincts. As I think about this, I now think that WH lied to me about when the A started. I think it started way before February 08 which is when he told me. There were lots of serious warning bells going off well before that time. Also he told me that they went away for a weekend together to Brussels as soon as their A started and I now think that it might have taken more time for it to progress to that level. Not that it matters any more but the whole thing still hurts.

I need to get into some kind of stability in my life before I can reconstruct myself but I'm sure I'll get there.

Thanks for everything

Interesting, means one of two things...

1. He is having less and less contact with OW and may be coming out of the fog...

or...

2. He is surrounding himself with people who are helping him justify his actions...


Hmmmm

But enough about him.

Many a BS begins looking back at the past and thinking about the red flags and warnings they were given ahead of time about the impending train wreck.

Looking back you can see them, but in a trusting, loving, relationship why would you need to be looking for lies? Hope you don't get too harden about the future, there are trustworthy people out there.

I hate what the WS destroys in us, our innocence, or trust, our willingness to believe.

You sound well! Your girls sound well too! Hope they don't miss France too much...

Three flag alarm. What, I believe he is telling you when he says his "concious is getting clearer every day" is that he is rationalizing his past actions away to himself. Or, to rephrase the quote "Gee, nowadays I am finding less to feel guilty of..."

Tully, has he ever asked you forgiveness for his betrayals?
I am not talking about apologising, rationalizing, explaining, whining or describing the events... has he ever just sincerely thought of your feelings about these events and asked you to forgive him?

There is nothing worse that a WS who feels, even slightly justified in their actions. Mike has a thread where the MC seems to him to be giving his WW reasons/excuses for her actions!

Again, I feel he is doing you the sincere favor of showing you (tipping) his hand. He must have a huge ego or be a little thick, I can't figure out first or former.

If he is seeking councel from this "renegade mediator" and the like-- his fog is getting foggier. That reminds me...

Here in the states we have a cartoon character named Spongebob, Squarepants. He has a great quote. "I smell the smelly smell of a smell that smells smelly!"
I think this is appropriate for today.

Tully listen to me very carefully. I have a gut feeling that something is not right.

Now that he has this meditor who likes to play guerilla warfare I would be worried. These type of people who are so passioante about their cause and diluted by there own personal experience DO NOT play fair.

I worry that with help from his "mediator" and his organization he may very well try to take off with your girls. From now on I am not sure long visits where he is allowed to keep them over night is wise. Unless you can have someone follow him to make sure he does not leave the area with your children.

The girls' passports.....are they safe under your lock and key? Could the girls legally be taken from the country by their father without them?

I'm thinking this guy is up to something despicable. I'm thinking he is not to be trusted as far as you could throw a house.

Tully, I recall that sailing to Dublin from the UK, there was no passport requirement at all. Flying to Dublin, there was.

Are there any ferries that go from Dublin to France?

The bit about his miraculously vanishing conscience really means 'Every day, I come up with more and more rationalisations and justifications for what I did. The small, irritating voice of my conscience is being drowned out completely.'

Do. Not. Trust. This. Man. That 'mediator' intervention shows he's headed for the dark side at speed.

TA

My stepmother wanted me to divorce my H (he was the only person who ever stood up to her); I ignored her. So twice, she contacted Children's Services and claimed he was abusing her - at age 3 and age 5. The second time, I knew it was her and talked to the CPS lady about her. She urged me to sue her and to file for no contact. I didn't because I didn't want my daughter to lose her only grandfather. (which happened anyway after I finally told him the truth about her after he accused ME of being a bad mother!) Stepmother wanted my H to be charged with unspeakable things and was willing for him to go to prison just so she could have him out of the family.

Anyway, things went so awry that I had to tell D18's school that my stepmother AND my father were no longer allowed to pick D18 up. It was a very painful part in my life, especially since no one else in our family supported us. My own brother practically begged me to apologize to them and ask forgiveness.

But the one thing I cared more about than my family was my daughter. There was no way in h&ll I would let her alone with them again knowing my stepmother was spiteful enough to disappear with my daughter.

Just sayin' that people you think you know...aren't always.

Also, do any of your girls have a mobile phone so they can get hold of you quickly?

TA

I am hearing sound wisdom in these warnings. Far better safe than sorry.

Keep us updated as you're able.

god i wish someone had her number...even i would call international.

Hi everyone, I'm back again. I hope to have our internet connection sorted soon and I'll be able to log on here more easily.
WH came on Saturday and took the girls until Tuesday as they have 2 days off school. I checked with my friend from whom he rents the apartment and he has booked it for 3 nights. There was no more mention of taking them back to France in the last couple of emails even though I know my MIL is spitting fire at me for 'not allowing her to see her grandchildren' (he didn't pick up his sense of entitlement from the ground!) I don't think he will take them to France against their will and without my knowledge. They would need to go to school and he knows that everyone in our village is on my side in this situation and he would only make things worse if he took them from me.

I took the opportunity to visit my sister for the weekend so it's good to be away and be sure that I won't bump into him.
I haven't heard anything about his reaction to the propostion for the legal separation. WH said in one email that he is changing solictor so I'm not sure why. On Friday I sent the papers necessary to file for divorce. The initial hearing before a judge should take place in 2 months.

Thanks for your support and advice. It is really useful and is keeping me on my toes.

Tully xxx

Hi tully,

Did you see WH when he picked up the girls? If not you, do you know how he was looking or do you even care at this point? Is MIL in contact with you directly? You can always tell her that if she really wants to see the girls, there's nothing stopping her from get her butt on a train and coming to Ireland.

You sound okay. Are you?

Hello black_raven, no, I didn't see WH when he dropped the children back. He obviously knew i was there because my car was there and I opened the door to the girls but he pulled up on the road and didnt' attempt to come near. I didn't see what he looks like but my brother said that he looked awful when he saw him in France a couple of weeks ago.

My solicitor emailed me to say that he has changed solicitor and has now employed the solicitor who works for the militant fathers' rights association (the president of this is the guy who rang me and threatened me recently). As my own solicitor said 'no need to tell you that this is not going in the direction of moderation'. The situation is a bit frightening but I'm so glad I'm here with my family. Going to France recently made me realise that I really do not want to be there any more, no matter how kind and good my friends are. I felt so vulnerable and it was a physical relief to get away.

I had a long, difficult but untimately postive (I think) conversation with DD11 last night but I didn't sleep a wink last night after it. As for whether I'm OK it depends on the moment you ask. Right now i feel OK (or maybe I'm just too exhausted to feel anything). I suppose I feel confident in the longer term and I feel sure that everything will work out but the next few weeks and months will be tough. I have reached the stage of indifference with regard to WH and OW now which I didn't feel before. I'm not sure I care if their relationship lasts or doesn't - apart from the impact it might have on my children. I'm not hearing anything from MIL and to be honest, I was thinking the other morning that one silver lining is that I don't have to deal with my in-laws anymore.

I'll keep you posted on updates but my solicitor plans to file for D once all the papers are in place.

I hope all is well with you, BR.

Dear Tully,

I'm so sorry to hear about this new lawyer. I have almost no time to write you now as I'm traveling intercontinentaly but I was wondering whether you have spoken to an Irish lawyer experienced in international family law matters. If things escalate suddenly (let's hope not), it helps to have someone already lined up. He may perhaps also be able to take preventive matters to keep the children in Ireland?

All the best, and good luck.

Tully with his recent act of changing solicitors I would consider an aggressive act of war. Groups like the one your wh has chosen to associate himself with do not, let me repeat that DO NOT always play fair or legally.
Please becareful tully. He has made you out to be a horrible mother to these people and they will most likely try to bulldog you in court.

I worry if court does not go there way they will try to get the girls by other means.