Thanks, I knew I could count on everyone to tell him the truth. Of course he's not too pleased I called on everyone and he certainly didn't like what he read (but I expected that part). He read everyone's replies, told me he felt ambushed and is curretly mad at me.

I asked him last night if he now understands why it was a really bad idea and he said he did.

He works overnights the next several days, so I figure by the time we have a chance to talk about all of this again he should be over his anger at me.

LC

DocP,

When did you end contact with the old GF? Does LC have a way to verify this or see how you did that?

WHy should she trust you?

Hi Chrysalis,

I ended contact yesterday via a quick e-mail thru facebook. I then promptly deleted all my contact information to her. No there is no way for LC to verify this other than by my word. I cannot answer your last question. Maybe she shouldn't trust me, I don't know. Time will tell. I did what I needed to do, said what I needed to say, and now am moving on with my life. I felt that this was something I needed to do before I die. Sort of my Bucket List.

Docp

Next time do it with approval of your missus.

Never mind

Jen,

I saw your initial reply and IMO you should have left it, it would have been good for him to see what people thought about his bucket list comment.

LC

Edited because I am clearly too angry to post nicely so I will refrain for the rest of tonight.

Docp,

This comes across to me that you may have felt a sense of entitlement to say anything you want to anybody, regardless of how LC feels about it. I am sure she must be very hurt by that attitude. It came across to me as a great big "FU" in LC's direction.

In MB lingo, it is an extreme lovebuster to engage in this kind of independent behavior.

I have to ask you again....why would you want to act like a single guy-- full of entitlement and independence-- at the expense of your spouse? She loves and cares for you.

LC, I removed the bucket list remark because I try not to rely on sarcasm these days to get my point across. But I did snort with derision when I read DocP say it.

But I will address the "time will tell" remark which worried me more than the bucket list thing.

For one, it's not something a committed spouse would say and for two, it implies that choices are beyond our control. Um, no they're not. You either choose to go down a certain path or not to. Every single foggy WS on this board has said "It was beyond my control". Sheesh, I said it myself. No it wasn't. They were choices I made every step of the way right from accepting a lunch invitation from the OM to having SF.

What is it with these docs? Do they have their empathy gene removed at med school?

Yep, that's the vibe I got from DocP's answer, too. DocP, you are not thinking, talking and acting like a married person.

It's all about you. "I did what I needed to do, said what I needed to say, and now am moving on with my life. I felt that this was something I needed to do before I die.," you said (emphasis mine).

Hey DocP, your life is LC's life, and vice versa. You must take into account LC's needs and feelings with every action you take and every thought you entertain.

Sorry to keep flogging you, DocP. But I have recently been in LC's shoes, so this issue resonates deeply with me. I want to hammer this point home to you and anyone else who might hit this thread: Contacting an ex-lover for any reason without your spouse's knowledge is an act of unfaithfulness and dishonors your marriage vows.

Chrys,


This right here is key to why I was so angry over this. Pre-A this is the way Docp treated me all the time. Being treated like this again threw me back to our really bad days, only I didn't realize it when it was happening.

Last night I had some quiet time to really think about everything. My mind kept going to how Docp was able to forgive me and move past the fact I cheated on him. I actually kept picturing the day he wanted all the details and when I was done telling him everything he didn't yell, stomp away or anything like that, he hugged me and calmly said "You do realize this is your one and only chance, right?" I wondered if he did that back in 2005 how in the world could I not forgive him for his bonehead moves over the last few weeks. We have come way too far in our relationship to let this ruin everything.

It is certainly a wake-up call at how easy it is for him to start to treat me like he use to. Of course, my reaction to being treated like that is interesting, too. Since my A I have told myself over and over if things ever went back to the way they were I would not tolerate it. Well, I certainly proved to myself that I wouldn't, not even for a second.

What I would like to see happen is for him to really learn about LB's and be willing to do what it takes to make me feel I am being considered when he does things and to not trample all over my feelings.

The ball is in his court to take the time to educate himself on the subject.

LC

Jen,

When I was still angry last night the sarcasm made sense, now that I have cooled down I can see why you removed it.

LC

Ottert,


This is almost exactly what I told him the other day. I also mentioned how I do it because I want to not because I feel obligated. After a while it just becomes second nature. That is where I would like him to get.

LC

I know hands down LB's are our big problem.

In June 07 I decided I was ready to jump into MB with both feet, the problem with that was Docp was not willing to jump in with me nor has he been since then.

What I have learned over time is MB is pretty much lost if both partners aren't willing to apply the principles. All it has done for me is lead to frustration, resentment and unrealistic expectations.

I expected Docp to know why it dangerous to have contact with an old GF. He took the necessary steps to stop all contact, but honestly doesn't really see the point. He actually told me he would be fine if I talked to any of my old flames. Of course not helping matters I asked him if that also included FOM (yes I realize that was over the line).

He's not had time to visit the board since his last post because he has been on overnights. I am going to ask him to re-read this thread and pay close attention to what Mrs W, Mark, TST and anyone else who used MB phrases in their replies said to him. I am going to ask him to read LB with me with the hope we can discuss it as we go along.

At this point I am removing one foot from MB and if he doesn't buy in after this I think I'm going to give up. MB is pretty much common sense, he's an intelligent man he just has to be willing. I hope he sees the importance, if not, I don't know. I'll cross that bridge when we get there.

LC

Does he continue to read at this site?

Imagnine,


He does not read on his own, he only reads things I ask him to take a look at.

LC

LC I have never posted to you but just to comment on this little comment by Docp.

My H used to say this to me too when he was trying to justify staying friends with the FOW. And it pi55ed me off so bad.

To me they have to say that because if they said that it would bother them if we did it then they could not justify doing it themselves!!!!!

ottert,

""You inferred what I did not imply."" AWESOME!! :crosseyedcrazy:

OK, is this a quote from somewhere else??

If so I am not familiar with it, which is very surprising because I am sooo well read.

Hope you don't mind if I use it.

Still Crazy,

Thanks for your thoughts

Since I am a former wayward I completely understand and know all the tricks in the book.

LC

krusht

Thanks for making me feel smart. I haven't felt like that in a very long time. I don't know where I got it. I'd like to think from this wicked sharp brain of mine, but if my wife is to be believed, that can't be it.

Not a quote that I know of, but it sounds like something my old Poli Sci professor would say back in the day when I would ask a question during one of his lectures. I'm not gonna give him credit for it though.

You have to reference me the first three times you use it, then you're free to use it at will.

I'll chime in too. In 2005, my husband attended a HS reunion. Our marriage was in a down period--things were very rough. Old gf shows up at reunion (I found out later she'd engineered that meeting..). Old gf has not been happily married for quite some time. Old gf and H spend a lot of time together while he was in town and then lots and lots and lots of time on the phone afterward. He got home and started spending lots of time on the phone with her and exchanging emails. I caught a glance at one of those emails, didn't like the tone of it, and asked him to cut contact with her. At the time, I never knew she had been an old gf--he had told me all along she was just a friend. He agrees to cut of off. I cite "you're unhappy, she's not happy--this is not a good combination". I head out of town for a weekend to see family and come back and he promises his phone will not be ringing anymore. Not sure how long that lasted but by Christmas he had opened a secret email account and it took about 6 months, but I finally hacked into it and busted their IMs, emails, chats, etc. It was a full blown EA by then. Cyber sex and everything. Ewwww..

He still insists to this day that: 1) nothing physical happened (not sure I believe him) and 2) 'it could have been worse' (as in physical. HUH?)

Bottom line--bad idea, invitation for end to your marriage. And an EA is just as powerful and painful as a PA. In fact, I told him I'd rather he'd had a one-night stand with a hooker than what he did.