You know, I have a hard time every day until she gives me something to feed off of. I tried to lay with her this morning and look into her eyes, she said that I made her feel awkward. We have been married over 15 years. So I went and worked out. When i came back she asked if I was mad at her, I said no not at all, what would I be mad about. Sooner or later she will give a little bit, and then I will be happy again. I just need reassurance that this is all normal at the six week point. Also, as I said in a previous post, this all seems earily familiar. I wonder if I went through this before, but not as pronounced, because I didn't know.

Today was very tough for me. I tried not to let it show. She didn't do anything wrong. Still just no affection. I was really hoping for more at this point. I don't understand how she can continue to do this. Why can't she see how she is hurting our family. At 6 weeks in, I really believed that she would be starting to see the light, maybe she is and doesn't say anything.

Chuck, I hope you have had a good month so far....
I have to beleave that the effort is worth it ....
When you think about it you know in your heart that you want to know you have done everything possible to save the marriage....

I think you've done a great job so far ..... keep the faith

What's the line from the movie

NEVER GIVE UP NEVER SURRENDER!!!!!!!

Well, here we are beginning our 8th week. I have to say that I think that we have come a long way from our first appointment at the MC, where she said that she hates when I touch her. For the most part there is no hostility anymore, and very little negativity. She now initiates hugs, I don't feel any love in those hugs, but hugs just the same. She does hold my hand back, she doesn't initiate. Still no kisses. When I say I love you she still says I know. That still hurts. Last week, she told me that she has realized through the MC that she had issues talking because of some childhood problems. She has also said that she understands that the A was just a way to vent, if it wasn't that it may have been a breakdown. She also said that she is doing what she can right now, but that doesn't mean that she wont be able to give more in the future. I think that she is still in love with him though. That being said, I have no evidence of any contact since Nov 17.

On Friday, we were getting off of the phone, and she said I love you. She then quickly said she doesn't know why she said that, nothing against me, but she doesn't know why she said that. she then quickly said goodbye and hung up. I haven't brought it up to her since then, but she hasn't said it again. I want to believe that somewhere deep inside, it is starting to come through again. I will see the MC tonight, she saw him on Friday night, I am sure they talked about this. We had a really good weekend, because of the talk and what she said. It put me in a much more positive place, although I did start feeling lonely again yesterday. At times I feel like I am being taken advantage of, but she has never been a person to do that. I know that there is alot of talk on this site of the Waywards being in a fog, but I think that I am too. I see things very negatively, but when I see a positive, I then soar. I love her so much, but I don't know how much more I can take. I am not even in a position to say if I want our marriage, because she hasn't decided if she wants to work on it yet. I say of course I want it, but this state of limbo is wearing on me.

Please let me know what you all think. Maybe we have made progress, and you all can see it, as you have been through it.

BTW, where does/did the hostility come from? I did not beat her or drink or do drugs. I am not someone who was treating her bad. Maybe I worked too much and didn't show enough affection, but I didn't treat her bad.

Chuck, LOL, she said she loved you and then said she didn't know where that came from! I think you are doing just fine.

Keep it up and you will see more changes in her. It DOES sound like she is coming out of the fog, and one day she will thank you for not giving up.

Like BobPure says, this is a hero's gig.

Thank you so much for saying that Believer! I need all of the encouragment that I can get at this point. I wonder if I am getting anywhere most of the time. Where are you Big K, and rightherewaiting? Again, thank you Believer, please keep writing to me,the 3 of you, not to forget princess meggy, have earned my trust and respect for your views and how they come across. I have to caution myself not to get to high right now, just as I did all weekend. Please say more.

Chuck - Are you spending at least 15 hours a week doing fun things together - without kids?

She vilifies you in order to justify her actions in her own mind. She tells herself that you are so clingy and suffocating that she deserved to be with someone for a while that was fun. She tells herself that you never listen to her, and she did the right thing in finding someone with a ready ear. She tells herself that you are angry and it was only natural that she sought out a person who makes her feel safe.

She also is hostile because of guilt. When you are meeting her ENs, not LBing, and avoiding needy relationship talk, she feels guilty because she hurt a nice guy, and she becomes defensive. She lashes out at you.

Working too hard will kill a marriage. It killed my first one. Are you spending at least 15 hours per week alone with her, without kids, just the two of you doing something fun (NO RELATIONSHIP TALK)?

Really, you don't need to talk about the relationship. It will fix itself if guys keep going the way you're going. Meet her ENs, explore why she had the A, make sure you eliminate LBs, learn about POJA, spend 15 hours of undivided attention together each week.... if you guys do that stuff, you really don't ever have to talk about the relationship.

When you bring up the relationship, or keep telling her over and over "I love you" and waiting for a response, she feels trapped. Quit it. You have plenty of other things to occupy your time without wasting it on relationship talk.

What are her top 3 ENs and how are you meeting them?
How much undivided attention time did you spend together this weekend and on a typical week day, and what do you do during that time?

Chuck,

Can you put some more spacers in your paragraphs.

This trade off on MC's may work out very expensive if some things do not get achieved quickly. Like a long distance track. What's the next trick.

These people here are say that the Harley's are very rapid.

Try them once. Just a thought.

Ok, if it counts towards the 15 hours, being on the phone, or shopping, then we did get to 15 hours. The problem with that, is that she doesn't know yet if she wants to work on the marriage. That being said, how much can I do without our son? We don't talk about the relationship much, if at all. Although I want to. I do think that I know her ENs, but how can I be sure, she doesn't know if she wants to work on us, so I can't talk about it to find out. I think that I know them, and work very hard to meet them. As far as the MC goes, insurance has kicked in, and we only pay 50 per session. Once again, I would love to try the Harley's, but I am only one half of the equasion.

Ok, so it has been about 2 weeks since I last posted. Life has been ok at home. I feel myself getting back as close to normal as I can. I am not in such a desperate state of depression that I ws in. My wife said that she loves me, that was 2 weeks ago, but since then nothing. Neither one of us brought it up. Now on Friday, after I took her out to lunch. As we were saying goodbye, we were hugging, and she said I love you. I looked at her surprised, and once again she acted as if she didn't know why she said it, but also didn't say that she didn't mean it. There have still been no kisses. Today, we spoent the whole day shopping, as we were coming home, I said "I love you, baby", she just completely ignored me. I don't want to act as if she were being mean, but just nothing. I am confused, I don't know what is going on. I don't know what she is thinking, does she think that she is doing something wrong when she says I love you? I still have no evidence of contact whatsoever. That would mean, 10 weeks of NC, at this point. She has said that she thinks that we are making progress, as the MC has as well. I also feel as though we are, but I would like to understsand what is going on. What do you all think?

Chuck,

One day, a few weeks after my wife came home to me, she was out working in the morning in the garden, then she showered, got ready for work and came and kissed me goodbye.

I dunno if it was just a habit or what but it shocked the hell out of me and she had no idea why she did it.

It's all good chuck - it's typical!

So are any of you of the opinion that the fog is starting to lift, and that I should just continue to be patient. Or do any of you still see red flags? I find that I get very disappointed after she says I love you, that the next time she doesn't. I don't show it though, i'm getting good at that. I really hope that she is on her way through withdraw, and is slowly opening her eyes. Please, those of you that have been there already, let me know if this all sounds familiar. I know that time lines vary, but let me know from your view, when you were here how long it took for complete withdraw. FWW welcome to share!

Chuck - you are expecting the fog to lift like a curtain - it isn't like that. Fog gradually clears; rolls in and out. ALL I am saying is it's typical.

Ok, so we are more than 12 weeks out, and the 3 month deadline that my ww gave the other man is fast approaching. She sent the email on Nov 17, so I expect him to call in the next week or two. I tried to have a conversation with my wife, but it didn't go well. She asked me to continue to be patient, and I asked if he calls would she say that he should not contact her ever again, that if she needs him she will call. She said that she didn't know what she would do if he were to call. I said than why should I continue to be patient if she wont commit to at least trying. She still says that she doesn't know whether she wants to try, how much she loves me. I have gotten to the point of giving up, but then I think, all of this pain was not for nothing, I need to stick it out. I know that she has said to a friend that she is frustrated, that she thought things would be clearer by now. I still feel as though I am walking in a pitch black room and can't see where to go and what to do. I love her, but there are limits. I think that I should wait 2 weeks and see what happens if he calls. What if he doesn't though. Another week, then another. My wifes bday is in the begginning of march, should I be scared then, or his at the end of march. I just want her to commit. But I will stick it out to the end, whatever that means. She has said that I am pushing to hard with trying to kiss and hug her, and saying I love you. I am trying to tone it down, but its difficult not knowing what to do, how to win my own wife back.

huh?????? WW gave OM a 3 month deadline????? A deadline for WHAT pray tell?

Strange arrangement that you made with your WW. Never bargain with the devil.

I am sure there will be contact on V-day (2/14) since that is adultery's holy day. Bdays could just entrenched their love and give her an out to say she tried but wont be able to stay with you.

Big K,

In her NC email, that I never saw. She told him not to contact her for 3 months. I did say that back then I think. Which is why I am now worried. I am almost positive that there is no contact now, and I am really not all too worried about my wife calling him. Things are going as well as can be expected at this point. I am worried that he will call her though, and turn everything upside down again. As far as Vday goes, thankfully, it falls on a saturday. He doesn't have her personal number, and I will be with her all day.

Rwinger,

what arrangement are you talking about, what I relayed about waiting is only my thoughts, not a negotiation with her. TGo be quite honest, my feeling is that even if he calls she will do the right thing. I do believe that her eyes have opened enough, but that is just my feeling. I don't think that she is sure that she is strong enough, but I just have a feeling that she is. Maybe I am wrong, but thats what my gut is telling me.

An NC letter does not count if the BH does not get to see it and send it.

It's not an NC letter. It was an OM and WW are taking a three month break letter.