I've never been treated harshly on my own thread, TR. Everything I've ever received here has been needed, warranted, and spot on. The hand-slapping y'all have provided has been the required antecdote for my flailing.

Now on a couple of other threads...

What I was referring to in my post above was the way people were posting to each other about other stuff. There was a nastiness about some of it that was personal because one person didn't agree with another poster. I mean, sometimes can't we just agree to disagree?

It was beginning to feel like whatever post I opened it was "YOUR WRONG!" and "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!" and "YOU'RE MEAN!" with DJs raining down. Some weren't even listening to each other. It wasn't universal. Just enough to where I felt I needed to get away from the fray. So I came back here and released a tad. I was scared to type much anywhere else.

Plus I've been discouraged by the further disappointments that were uncovered this past week by BSs I admire so much -- SadSoSad, MikeC2, Chrysalis... It's hard to read that stuff and "hear" what they're experiencing AGAIN. My heart goes out to them.

No, I'm grateful for your and everyone elses "hardness". Reality can be hard. So I say suck it up and face it.

There is always a sense of comfort for me when I see a post from you, Mark -- especially on this thread. Thank you for stopping by.

It is. Actually it's a DATJ - Disrespectful And True Judgement. (Did I type that outloud?)

Up until about an hour ago, I had nothing planned. I kept coming up against roadblocks trying to get reservations. (Dinner being something H wants to do.) Then I read your post, V, and said to myself, "Gosh darn it. I'm going to get this thing planned NOW." So I called about 15 restaurants. Finally, even though I supposedly knew they wouldn't have any openings because they've been full every time we've tried before, I called a restaurant that has great live music only on Saturday nights. And guess what? They had a table for 2. Woo-hoo! And my H loves this place. So we'll be going there. I'll make it a surprise because he won't believe we'll be getting in.

I wish I still fit in my red dress that H loves as that would make it perfect. But I'll find something. I'm determined.

(Oh, does it help that there is a Lover's store not a block away from the restaurant that sells ahem... well... stuff for lovers?)

What about that 'under garment' wear that smoothes and squishes everything in to one place, I can't think of the name it

But it forces you sit up straight and refuses overeating

Good for you for booking something. Hubby will love it, and you for doing it.

I'm giggling because the image of me squeezing into my Spanx (what they're called) is very humorous. It'd be like Buddah with a corset.

Want his undivided attention?

Wear something conservative (skirt/blazer/blouse) with something REALLY HOT underneath.

Let him see it just before entering the restaurant if you want to go home early...

"Oh ,Waiter! Could we get that to GO, please?" :MrEEk:

Be sure he KNOWS it is all for HIM and not something you thought up with OM. (You don't have to tell him, just SHOW him.)

Dessert suggestion: Raspberries, Strawberries, chocolate sauce and whipped cream and just each other in a room alone...

And maybe a bottle of decent Merlot…

When we were broke and had no money to spend on roses for Valentines Day I visited a florist near closing time and bought one long stemmed rose and asked if I could have all the petals they had swept up at the end of their busy day. I got them for free!

I scattered them over the bed and lit some candles before she got home. A VERY memorable night...

L4
Best to get the nude coloured spanks then now that's a visual

V,

I give you my best set-up material and that's the best you can come up with?

Mark

You two... I'm going to wake the kids, I'm laughing so hard...

Now that I've settled down, I can reply to this.

Yes!

Without TMI, I'll just share that in a spontaneous moment a few weeks ago, I presented a whole new use for whipped cream. We both appreciated it. So based on experience, this is a great idea.

I'm a white wine lady, but I get the idea.

Awwww... What a sweetheart, you are.

I've made notes. And it's a good idea H is out of town now or I'd be putting some of this through a trial run and ruin Saturday's surprise.

Hey there L4,

I've literally spent the past 3 days while "not busy" at work reading your thread in rapture... I've never posted to you before (and rarely post at all anymore...) but your thread was enough to bring me out of lurkdom... for now

First off, I want to commend you on telling your BH about your A. That really takes guts... and is very admirable.

So... why did I decide to post to you? Well.. I am also the FWW, who also confessed to my H. Our stories are a bit divergent in the details (I'm sure you can go back to my post history and read a lot of my old posts to get more of the "story"...)... I confessed right after the PA part (3 days later), but continued the EA part for almost a year after that, and H did fight for me during that time. Prior to my A, much like your H, my H travelled a lot for business, and was emotionally unavailable, and even sometimes emotionally abusive. Not an excuse, at all. I dealt with all of that by stepping outside my M instead of setting boundaries for myself and keeping them.

I guess the MAIN thing that brought me out of lurkdom, is somewhere along the line you made the comment that you get "insanely jealous" when you hear of BH's fighting for their WW's. Well... I just wanted to share my experience with that with you-- and maybe give a little "insight" as to why you maybe shouldn't be. Sooo... as I mentioned my H "fought" for me and our M while I was still in my EA (after confessing the PA). BUT... as soon as the EA had ended, NC, for sure... el finite... H had a "change". He became much like your H is now... "I don't know what I want"... refusing to make plans for the future, threatening to leave over and over again...

I think because it was now "safe" for him to do so. When I was still engaged in my EA... it wasn't "safe" for him to express his hurt and anger towards me. Once I was back in the M... it was. So... maybe your H just 'skipped' that whole "fighting" part... because your A was long over before you told him... and it was "safe" for him to "proceed" straight to processing his hurt and anger? KWIM? In essence... you were a step ahead... from the get-go!

And trust me, my H has/had anger to process also for the fact that he DID have to "fight" for me. He shouldn't have had to do that, so he's right to be angry. So, that adds more things to be angry about. Your H at least doesn't have to process the fact that he had to fight for you to get you to stay.

So, my point is, don't be jealous. You got to start a step ahead of the couples that have to process a BH having to "fight" for their M. And there's no guarntee that he WOULDN'T have fought for your M... and then once it was safe, the anger and hurt would still come out.

I sense at times you get weary in your thread too. I know where you are coming from there. There were times that I was really weary... and I'm really glad you have the best of the best (not including myself in that!) posting to you... I've taken a lot of what they've said and used it myself too-- lurkers like me get a lot of help too from reading sitches like theirs and taking the advice in them

I've been home, working on the M now for a year and a half. I'd say its really only been the past 8 months or so that my H has stopped with the threats of leaving me, and stopped with the "I don't know what I want" and "I don't know if I want to stay married". I know how hard that is to hear. How much you just want him to RECOMMIT. And give it a shot. BTDT. And, to date, my H hasn't "officially" recommitted. He just stopped threatening to leave. That's progress, in my book. Sometimes deciding to stay is just a matter of deciding to NOT LEAVE. I'll take it.

In terms of "future" plans, I MADE THEM. When H refused to commit to a summer vacay this past summer because he didn't want to plan that far ahead... I took the initiative. I planned it MYSELF, paid for it myself. Made it a surprise. Told him only what dates he had to take off of work. I figured that even if we did D before the vacation... well, I'd lose some of the $$$ that I had spent, but I wanted to prove MY long term commitment to the M, even if he couldn't. I talked about the future, even if he couldn't.

And slowly, he started talking about the future too. In fact, he talks now about where we are moving... together... in a year (when I'm done with my program). He planned a vacation FOR US, himself, that we are going on in 2 weeks. He planned Valentine's day this year. (I planned it last year, and much like your H, mine wanted NOTHING to do with the day... but I just forged ahead, did it anyways, planned the dinner, decorated the house, made him cookies, etc etc...).

I know where you are coming from in being scared about prior abusive tendencies (name calling, etc) reappearing. BTDT too. Honestly, the way I see it now is that I can only change myself... I can't change him. I had to learn to instate my own boundaries for how it is acceptable for him to express his anger/hurt. And that is something I should have done BEFORE my A... that would have made our interactions different, would have prevented LBs from draining our banks... would have made our M easier. So, don't focus on "fixing" his problems, right now. Focus on WHAT YOU CAN DO to make those "problems" less weighing on you (ie, boundaries). Leaving the room when he flips out is what I do. If he continues, I leave the house... but am very clear about where I am going (I have the added "bonus" of that my OM still lives in the same city as us... ugh... at least you've got yours far away!). A lack of boundaries... both with and outside of the M, always contributes to the A. Focus on what you can fix. You'll be amazed how much the M will be slowly fixed too.

I guess my point is... you are in the begining. This is the long haul. We STILL aren't out of the woods yet. Nope. Not even a year and a half later. Just 2 weeks ago my hubby had a melt down over this all (after being 2 MONTHS melt down free! Heck I remember when I considered it a SUCCESS to go more than 3 or 4 days without a melt down!). BUT... we've changed the dance. His anger isn't as "venom-y" as it used to be. And he usually calms down and apologizes the next day. Its MUCH better than it was a year ago-- light years!

There wasn't a major turning point either. It happened slowly. LIke hair growing. You can't tell when you look in the mirror each day that your own hair is growing. But if you look back at old pictures, from a year ago... it seems much shorter, there's a big difference. Some people may have major turning points... you may not. You'll still get there-- you really are doing great.

So, a bit of encouragement, and a bit of what you may be in store for! You'll get there. It takes time, soul searching, and consistency. Oh, and BTW, I went to IC myself for awhile, but much like your H, my H refuses IC and also any MC. Or to post here or anything like that.

Best of luck to you. You are starting light years ahead of where I started, both personally and in your M.

E.

E,

I couldn't be luckier to have you break your code of lurkdom to post on this thread. I'm grateful for the apparently rare honor. Your insight on jealous BSs verses the path of my H and me, how when I get weary to lean on the folks here, hearing how threats to leave may turn to just not leaving (I hope the same for me), focusing on what I can do by using boundaries, how hair grows, having a H who won't seek outside help...

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Oh, and btw I disagree...

I consider you among the best now too.

I hope you enjoy a great day.

[tj]

Hi E!

Mark

[/tj]

I'm humbled... I'm being recognized by the great Mark?


Honestly, Mark, yours are posts that I almost always read-- always full of such wisdom! One of my favorite posters... that loves to use analogies too (I'm a huge analogy person also!). Posts on lots o' topics have really, really helped me get to a place where I'm happy with MYSELF again. And its amazing... being happy with MYSELF (because I'm proud again of the person I am NOW)... has really made my marriage so much better.

Soooo... thank YOU Mark...

(PS-- L4, Mark is def. one of the "best of the best" I was referring to!!!)

E.

I know. When I see his name come up on a post I can't click on it fast enough to read the latest wisdom he has to impart. (And/or wit. I dug the peanut butter comment on another thread.) It could be a thread about paint drying during a turtle race and yet if Mark's there, I'm reading.

(Are you feeling the love, Mark?)

And, one other thing L4...

There's not one thing I read in your thread, and didn't think "yup, that's normal", or "yup, BTDT!"

From the names (been called them all!), to the leaving the house without telling you where he's going-- to the overall absence from the house (my H used to do anything it seemed to get away from me!), to the SF, refusing MC, mood swings that make no sense... telling you one second he's gonna stay and loves you, the next to he doesn't love you anymore, doesn't feel the same way at all, the whole marriage being a sham... yep, all of it, BTDT. Yeow-ch... does it hurt? Yeppers. Absolutely. But it will taper, in time.

Its normal, L4. It may not be "fun". And it may not always be the "best" way to deal with it (the "best" way is both people on board, the MB way...), but you can work MB one sided (I have!). It does work-- eventually. And as you grow, and grow stronger, you'll be happier with YOURSELF. Your own sense of pride will come back. I abhor what I WAS... but the person I am now I LOVE-- I'm not perfect, but at least I have a sense of checks and balances in my life. I wish, really wish, it didn't take all of this for me to realize what an ugly person I had become... to be able to be the self-confident, boundary enforcing chick I am now... without all the crap I put myself and my family thru... but... I can't change the past. I can just REMEMBER to NEVER, EVER GO BACK! (and reading here is my "daily check" to make sure I STAY ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW!).

Keep posting, keep us updated... and I'll keep reading and tossing in comments when I got em'.... he hasn't left yet, L4. And that's good.

So, what's the plan for V-day? Last year, I cut out about 100 hearts from construction paper (yeah, cheesy!) and wrote a reason I loved hubby on each one. Then put them on a long string, and hung it up in the kitchen. Made him breakfast... and cookies to go to work with And planned a nice romantic dinner out. And all of this was after a month of telling me that Valentine's day meant nothing to him, he wasn't going to do anything for it, he didn't love me anymore, etc etc. Didn't let it get me down! Valentine's day is about me showing my love for him.. I didn't expect anything in return. What's your plans?

E.

Okay just got home and came straight to this post. You gave me motivation to go shopping today for something special. Man, it's hard to find something, like picking out wallpaper

Oooh, also got a smelly thing for our room, and a small portion of choc. truffles. I have never had this much fun with VD.

So I guess that's my comeback. Thanks for the reigniting my spark Mark.

They need little valentine hearts around here.

L4, you got that dress ironed and ready to go ???

V,

Glad I could be of help.

Mark

I'm reignited too, V, but the dress I want would barely make it over my hips right now. But I'm not deterred. In fact I'm so motivated that I made a waxing appointment for tomorrow. TMI I'm sure, but you gotta understand, that's unheard of up here where one doesn't bare skin in February. It was easy to get a last minute appointment. ;-) It's a luxury I don't do often, but H loves the results so forget that it's not swimsuit season.

I'll be going through the closet tonight after the kids have gone to bed. See what I can fit into. Also considering going shopping tomorrow if need be as H won't be around and I won't have to come up with a story. While I wish I was still a size 4, I'm sure (hopeful?) that thanks to some suggestions here, we'll have a great night. (Crossing fingers...)

Oh... As for smelly things for your rooms -- and I hope by smelly you don't mean stinky -- there is this stuff that you spray on the sheets that has pheromones in it. It's to "set the stage for romance." It's like a silky powder and between the feel and the subtle fragrance, it helps with the mood. I must say, it's never failed me. Sometimes H notices it, sometimes not. Regardless, it's gotten results. Bought it through an all-ladies passion party (like Tupperware parties but more enlightening) and it's called Silky Sheets. (You can google Passion Party, go under "Products A-Z" and look for Silky Sheets. I'm not comfortable linking to it from here.) I highly recommend it. Perhaps there might be something similar at a Lover's type store near you, or consider ordering some now for the next time.

That's my tip for the night. Thanks for helping with my inspiration!

Thank you so much for the positive reinforcmenet, E.

I might have to steal bits from this one, E. I hope that's okay. The set plans are dinner and live music Saturday night. Other things will be thrown in before and after thanks to some well-tested advice from other posters here. So I'm pumped up about it. Much more than I was a week ago.