This is an article, pulled DIRECTLY from the site. I would simply link it, but I think the power of the article deserves to be put here for you to read in this context.

The link is from Hold...


http://www.marriagemissions.com/to-wives-why-is-sex-so-important/comment-page-1/

To Wives:Why is sex so important?


What kinds of emotional needs does your sexual interest meet for your man? In written survey comments and in my interviews, I noticed two parallel trends—the great benefits a fulfilling sex life creates in a man’s inner life and, conversely, the wounds created when lovemaking is reluctant or lacking.

Benefit #1: Fulfilling sex makes him feel loved and desired

Not surprisingly, the first thing surfaced from the survey comments was that having a regular, mutually enjoyed sex life was critical to the man’s feeling of being loved and desired. One eloquent plea captured it perfectly:

I wish that my wife understood that making a priority of meeting my intimacy needs is the loudest and clearest way she can say, “You are more important to me than anything else in the world.” It is a form of communication that speaks more forcefully, with less room for misinterpretation, than any other.

The reason why this message is needed is that many men—even those with close friendships— seem to live with a deep sense of loneliness that is quite foreign to us oh-so-relational women. And making love is the purest salve for that loneliness.

One man told me, “I feel like I go out into the ring every day and fight. It’s very lonely. That’s why, when the bell rings, I want my wife to be there for me.”

Another related that sentiment to the power of fulfilling sex. “A man really does feel isolated, even with his wife. But in making love, there is one other person in this world that you can be completely vulnerable with and be totally accepted and non-judged. It is a solace that goes very deep into the heart of a man.

This is one reason why some men may make advances at times that seem the furthest from sexual. One woman relayed a story about her husband wanting to make love after a funeral for a close relative. Making love was a comfort and a way of being wrapped in her love.

Benefit #2: Fulfilling sex gives him confidence

Your desire for him goes beyond making him feel wanted and loved. Your desire is a bedrock form of support that gives him power to face the rest of his daily life with a sense of confidence and well-being.

By now most of us have seen the television commercials for Viagra in which a man’s colleagues for friends repeatedly stop him and ask what’s “different” about him. New haircut? Been working out? Promotion? Nope, the man tells them all, with a little smile.

One man I interviewed brought up those ads. “Every man immediately understands what that commercial is saying —it’s all about guys feeling good about themselves. The ad portrays a truth that all men intuitively recognize. They’re more confident and alive when their sex life is working.”

Once my eyes were opened to this truth, I realized how often I’d heard the “man code” for this fact, but failed to understand it. When men had told me they “felt better” when they got more sex, I had just assumed they meant physically better.

But as one husband told me, “What happens in the bedroom really does affect how I feel the next day at the office.” Another wrote, “Sex is a release of a day-to-day pressures and seems to make everything else better.”

Wound #1: “If she doesn’t want to, I feel incredible rejection.”

As much as men want sex, most of them would rather go out and clip the hedges in the freezing rain than make love with a wife who appears to be responding out of duty. My husband, Jeff, explained: “The guy isn’t going to be rejected by the hedges. And that’s the issue. If she’s just responding because she has to, he’s being rejected by his wife.”

Again, keeping in mind that what he wants most is for you to desire him, try to see what he wants most is for you to desire him, try to see this rejection issue from the man’s point of view. If we agree, but don’t make an effort to get really engaged with the man we love, he hears us saying, “You’re incapable of turning me on even when you try, and I really don’t care about what matters deeply to you.” On the other hand if we don’t agree at all, but throw out the classic “Not tonight, dear,” he hears, “You’re so undesirable that you can’t compete with a pillow… and I really don’t care about what matters deeply to you.”

Although we might just be saying we don’t want sex at that point in time, he hears the much more painful message that we don’t want him.

Here’s what the men themselves said on the survey:

• “She doesn’t understand that I feel loved by sexual caressing, and if she doesn’t want to, I feel incredible rejection.”

• “When she says no, I feel that I am REJECTED, ‘No’ is not no to sex—as she might feel. It is no to me as I am. And I am vulnerable as I ask or initiate. It’s plain and simple rejection.”

• “She doesn’t understand how even her occasional dismissals make me feel less desirable. I can’t resist her. I wish that I, too, were irresistible. She says I am. But her ability to say no so easily makes it hard to believe.”

This feeling of personal rejection, and a sense that his wife doesn’t really desire him, tends to lead a man into darker waters.

Wound #2: your lack of desire can send him into depression.

If your sexual desire gives your husband a sense of well-being and confidence, you can understand why an ongoing perception that you don’t desire him would translate into a nagging lack of confidence, withdrawal, and depression.

The men I talked to scoffed at my tentative suggestion that a string of similar rejections wouldn’t necessarily mean that their wives were rejecting them as men. They warned that any woman sending those signals would undermine the loving environment she wants most because, as one man said, “She is going to have one depressed man on her hands.”

A man can’t just turn off the physical and emotional importance of sex, which is why its lack can be compared to the emotional pain you’d feel if your husband simply stopped talking to you. Consider the painful words of this truly deprived husband—words that other men, upon reading them, call “heartbreaking”:

We’ve been married for a long time. I deeply regret and resent the lack of intimacy of nearly any kind for the duration of our marriage. I feel rejected, ineligible, insignificant, lonely, isolated, and abandoned as a result. Not having the interaction I anticipated prior to marriage is like a treasure lost and irretrievable. It causes deep resentment and hurt within me. This in turn fosters anger and feelings of alienation.

…If you view sex as a purely physical need, it might indeed seem comparable to sleep. But once you realize that your man is actually saying, “This is essential to my feeling of being loved and desired by you, and is critical to counteract my stress, my fears, and my loneliness,” well… that suddenly puts it in a different category. So how might you respond?

First, know that you’re responding to a tender heart hiding behind all that testosterone. If at all possible, respond to his advances with your full emotional involvement, knowing that you’re touching his heart. But if responding physically seems out of the question, let your words be heart words—reassuring, affirming, adoring. Do everything in your power—using words and actions your husband understands—to keep those pangs of personal rejection from striking the man you love. Leave him in no doubt that you love to love him.

And remember, if you do respond physically but do it just to “meet his needs” without getting engaged, you’re not actually meeting his needs. In fact, you might as well send him out to clip the hedges. So enjoy God’s intimate gift, and make the most of it!

…I recognize that some women might very much wish that they could respond more wholeheartedly to their husband’s sexual needs, but feel stopped in their tracks for various personal reasons. I don’t want to add any more frustration. I do, however, want to encourage you to get the personal or professional help you need to move forward. The choice to pursue healing will be worth it, both for you and the man you love.

Make sex a priority

An excerpt from a Today’s Christian Woman article captures this issue—and provides an important challenge to change our thinking. The author starts by admitting that although her husband really wanted to make love more often, it “just wasn’t one of my priorities.” She then describes a subsequent revelation:

I felt what I did all day was meet other people’s needs. Whether it was caring for my children, working in ministry, or washing my husband’s clothes, by the end of the day I wanted to be done need-meeting. I wanted my pillow and a magazine. But God prompted me: “Are the ‘needs’ you meet for your husband the needs he wants met?”

If your daughters weren’t perfectly primped, he didn’t complain. If the kitchen floor needed mopping, he didn’t say a word. And if he didn’t have any socks to wear, he simply threw them in the washer himself.

I soon realized I regularly said “no” to the one thing he asked of me. I sure wasn’t making myself available to my husband by militantly adhering to my plan for the day… Would the world end if I didn’t get my tires rotated? I’d been focused on what I wanted to get done and what my children needed, I’d cut my husband out of the picture.

Are the many things that take our time and energy truly as important as this one? Now would be a good time to reevaluate priorities with the help of our husbands so they know that we are taking this seriously.

… Having heard from so many men on this, I would urge you: Don’t discount it. It’s more important to him—and to your relationship and therefore your own joy in marriage —than you can imagine.

Now that you understand the tender places in your husband’s heart, hopefully you have developed compassion for him and the way he is wired.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above article comes from the terrific book, FOR WOMEN ONLY… What you Need to Know about the Inner Lives of Men -by Shaunti Feldhahn, published by Multnomah www.multnomahbooks.com. This is a GREAT book (which has much more insight on this and many other subjects) to help women learn about what motivates men and their thought processes behind their actions (or non-actions). Shaunti had interviewed over 1000 men in researching this book. As a result she found that she didn’t know the mind of her husband and others like she thought she did. So what she does in this book is reveal the findings her research brought out so that other women can better understand the men in their lives (i.e. husbands, sons, dads, brothers, friends, etc.) which will help them to better interact with them.

Shaunti makes it very clear that this isn’t a “male-bashing” book. It’s also not written to justify what men believe, it’s written to reveal what they believe. As she says, not all men think the same — there are always exceptions to everything. But as Shaunti explains, this book will help women to better understand most men and most likely her husband.

It helps women to see how differently we’re wired psychologically. When you better understand that, you’re better able to work with things the way they ARE rather than how you think they should be. As she says, “I hope that this book is not just about learning fascinating new secrets. The more we understand the men in our lives, the better we can support and love them in the way they need to be loved. In other words, this revelation is supposed to change and improve us.”

There is also a For Women Only Discussion Guide available, written by Shaunti Feldhahn along with Lisa Rice, which is published by Multnomah www.multnomahbooks.com. It’s designed to be used by book clubs, in small groups, or even for having a one-on-one dialogue with the man of your life. Many women, after reading the For Women Only book may wonder, “So what do I do with the information I’ve just been given?” This discussion guide is designed to answer that question. It contains personal stories, questions, and situational case studies to help equip you to apply the truths you learn in your own life.

I read this yesterday and I found it very enlightening. I do understand that men and women are wired differently and that men see sex as a means to love and contentment while women are often the other way around.

The problem is, what happens when both partners fall off the wagon, so to speak? The wife is not getting her needs met (affection, companionship) and it comes right out of her sexual desire. On the other hand, the husband is not getting his needs met and is not able to shower his wife with affection.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I've given this some thought lately. I have told my husband in the past that "I need to feel connected to you in order to want to have sex with you" and he acknowledged that the first few times I said it but the last time I said it he said he was "tired of that excuse". Where does that leave me?

I think it has to be a carefully choregraphed dance, once both partners have fallen off. They both need to make the effort to fulfill the other spouse's needs. And they both need to have patience that nothing will change overnight. It didn't get this way overnight and it's not gonna change overnight.

And if the lines of communication are broken down on top of that, well, IMO, *THAT'S* got to be fixed first so that husband/wife can engage in this dance.

That is a WONDERFUL post!!

Before discovering my H's EA, I had totally bought into the thought process that all men wanted was sex, it was something to joke about, etc. I was also like the one described in the article - at the end of the day I didn't want to meet anybody's needs after doing it all day.

Since discovering his A, I've learned just how critically important SF is to men, and this article crystalizes those thoughts extremely well. I'm going to forward it to my FWH as well.

Thank you so much for that. I wish ALL women could be educated in this, I think it would save a lot of heartache.

I agree and disagree. The feelings probably won't change overnight. The behavior can. And must if the marriage is to be saved. Both have to be dedicated enough to the marriage to change their behavior despite not feeling like it. Otherwise the change probably won't occur until it is too late.

I agree with you there, Hold. I think that's what I was trying to say--but you said it better.

I agree with Hold...

You don't have to be running a marathon in order to train for it daily.

The BEHAVIOR will precede the feelings in almost ALL aspects. I know there were times, when I was just sitting there listening to what to me was 'blah blah blah... sale... blah blah blah... and then she... blah blah blah.' But my WIFE (supposedly) saw complete and unabashed involvement in what she was saying.

Now... did I WANT to listen to her time in the check out?...

Yes and NO. I wanted to listen because it was important to HER. But I didn't really CARE that the woman in front of her had 18 items in a 10 item line. Or that the price of that new pair of shoes was 50% off. I gotta tell you all, if you THINK that men EVER really want to hear that sort of stuff, you would most likely be wrong. We are interested in YOU! We are interested in supporting YOU! We are happy to be making YOU happy. But where the rubber meets the road... most likely we don't care about the specifics. Just that we are trying with all our hearts to fulfill your need for us to 'hear you'.

If we only listened to things WE wanted to hear a woman say, it is unlikly you would EVER get your needs met. At least with sex, women can get SOMETHING from it as well.

I know this sound crass... but I get so tired of women thinking that they should only have SEX when they REALLY FEEL GOOD about their relationship, their weight, their children's college fund, that the laundry is finished, dishes done, etc etc etc. But MEN should listen no matter WHAT! YEA... we SHOULD... and some of us really TRY TO!

YOU can only control YOU. You can either DO something or NOT. There is no half way.... if you want full results. I am NOT relieving your husband of his responsibilities, however, he is not the one here, you are. You have to decide what you can do and then of that... what you are willing to do. It is a simple as that. If you CAN do something but choose not to do it, that is fine, but it is a choice. Understandable, but still a choice. If you have run your head into a wall enough to realize you CAN'T do something... then that is a different story all together. A carefully choreographed dance is what got you here. Because you were expecting him to step back, and he stepped forward.

CFIO, I never understood that. You listen to folks all day. Yes, even the cashier at the checkout. It doesn't seem to take much effort at all. Why would it be skin off your teeth?

I think you WAY underestimate the effort a woman goes through to psyche herelf up for S with a man who she isn't emotionally connected with. Especially those cases when the guy doesn't even try to do the small things that she asked for help with to try to get "into it," like even the most minimal effort to get the family chores done before she's so tired she is sleep deprived. If you took Pieta's story with the vibrator for a strange place, and changed it to letting someone that you're not happy with do that to you, until they're good and ready to "let" you fall asleep, and I think you'd get a more accurate picture. And then he judges her and puts her down for not being "into it". Who would sign on for such a thing?

Ok, thoughts from the other side again:

When I talk to my husband (I don't talk about sales and shopping BTW, but that's just me), here's how it usually goes:

ME: So at work today, X said...
HIM:(interrupting): X is an arsehole
ME: But he said something that got me thinking...
HIM: (interrupting) whatever he says is probably off the board for 20. You know way more than him.
ME: Listen, I'm trying to tell you something about what he said because it made sense.
HIM: Oh and I don't make sense? Whose team are you on, anyway? All people who live in this state are jerks. I hate it here. This is what happened to me today....
ME: Can I just finish my sent...
HIM: STOP INTERRUPTING ME.
ME: But I was trying to tell you something and you kept interrupting. Now PLEASE let me finish.
HIM: (sits there sullenly and listens until I'm done)
ME: What do you think?
HIM: You wanted me to listen, so I listened. I don't have an opinion.

I'm not kidding, that's maybe a condensed version of one type of conversation but the interrupting, the blame shifting and the trying to change the topic go on almost every time I talk to him.

So tell me CFIO and Hold how would you say I should handle this? We are not even close to the stage where we can talk about major issues if we can't even talk about something that happened to me at work today.

And then often, he will want to tell me something and I'm cooking dinner. So he'll come in and start telling me the story and if I don't STOP everything I'm doing and listen 100% to him, I am "just not listening because as usual, you have more important things to do"

ME: It's not that I consider dinner more important. I need to just finish this up and I can listen to you while I do this.
HIM: Yeah, I get it.


See what I mean about a choregraphed dance? Do you think I feel like SF when my evenings go like this? I do try, but not nearly often enough, enthusiastically enough(according to him).

YES, YES, YES and YES! Right on, Ears.

ears... I am not trying to MINIMIZE the importance of listening to a woman. I am merely saying that it will NEVER mean the same thing to a man. I would suggest that I listen, clean, childrear, etc. FAR more in a week, time wise, than I ever get back in Sex. As a matter of fact, there is not even a 100:1 ratio.

There is NO skin off my teeth, but we are wired differently. Where you can enjoy sitting and talking with your friends about 'nothing at all'... most men just aren't like that. It is NOT that it is painful or extensive or abrasive. IT just doesn't have the same connotation and reward for a man typically. We don't talk alot on the phone. How much can you talk on the phone? We don't 'shoot the [censored]' with our friends without a topic typically... how many times do you just 'talk' about nothing with your friends?

It isn't BAD, but it is merely DIFFERENT. I might have sounded like I was in pain while listening to my wife. That is NOT the case. I just know that I wasn't feeling the same thing... the same LOVE BANK deposits my WIFE was feeling. That doesn't mean I shouldn't and don't WANT to do it. It just means that it is something where I don't look at what I am doing on the surface ie listening to the traffic at the mall, I am ACTUALLY loving my wife. The WAY she NEEDS me to love her. NOT my way... HER WAY.

Women, it sounds on this board, have the sense that they must "FEEL" like sex before they should LOVE THEIR HUSBANDS the way THEIR HUSBANDS need it. To use your words... 'Why would it be any skin off your teeth?' It is 20-30 min... most men (I) would be fulfilled with 60 min of sex a week. 1 hour out of 168 that week. Would YOU be happy with 60 min of combined EN fulfillment? Maybe so... maybe no. And I understand the comparison doesn't equate directly to time. AND THAT IS MY POINT. WE (MEN) want LESS time, but more specifically FULFILLING time.

CFIO: One of the concepts of MBers is that while all ENs are equally important because they are our ENs, not all ENs will and should take up the same amount of time. A woman's top EN is usually affection. Affection should happen 24/7. A man's top EN is usually SF. That can't happen 24/7. It's an "event" to use Harley's word. That doesn't mean it's less important, just that it takes up a different amount of time in the week.

I'd be perfectly happy with 20-30min of conversation a WEEK vs a day IF my husbnd would actually show some respect, listen to me and engage in the conversation in a meaningful way. I'm darn sure he would hate it if I approached sex the same way he approached conversation.

OH,

Communication exercises were a big part of recovering our marriage. I can't imagine getting to where we are today without them.

Doing the exercises also helped us with putting into place healthy boundaries by example.

Lots of other benefits, too. Good consequences keep on coming, too.

There are a few exercises...the one we did twice a week took only one half hour each time. And it counts towards UA time, too.

If you'd like to consider these...then you can use what I hear as a competitive aspect of your marriage, the challenge to see if you really can do them...may work in your favor.

You guys have a pattern...a power struggle. Reasonable because blame is about control...when you want to take it, you want to take control.

Wanting to be blameless is the flipside...the 180 to 0...and it's still the same. What I hear you really wanting is to be at 90 degrees...in full responsibility for what truly is yours, connected with your spouse...not taken over or abandoned, am I close?

When you're looking for your part...just your responsibility within something...look first. "I've been thinking today about <blank> today." Don't stray into who said, when, what, etc. Just your thoughts, your stuff. Stick to really simple statements.

If you're sharing to share...that's intimacy. If you're sharing to know what he thinks of your stuff, that's control. Share and let go. The more you do this, the more you'll hear his stuff as his.

Here's a healthier replay of your convo in my imagination:

ME: So at work today, X said...(rephrased above)
HIM:(interrupting): X is an [censored]
ME: You think X is a <blank>.
HIM: whatever he says is probably off the board for 20. You know way more than him.
ME: I'm hearing you don't trust what X says and you're afraid of him having influence on my thinking, is that correct?
HIM: Oh and I don't make sense? Whose team are you on, anyway? All people who live in this state are jerks. I hate it here. This is what happened to me today....
ME: Sounds to me like you're comparing yourself to others, that you think I do that, too...compare you to other men, and that you believe I'm not on your side, your team, that others you've met here are against you, as well.
HIM: STOP INTERRUPTING ME.
ME: But I was trying to tell you something and you kept interrupting. Now PLEASE let me finish.
HIM: (sits there sullenly and listens until I'm done)
ME: What do you think?
HIM: You wanted me to listen, so I listened. I don't have an opinion.

Look for your part in wanting your H's opinion on your own stuff. When you know and share your stuff, you are acting from intimacy. If you do it to get him to do/think/say/feel...then you're not acting from intimacy. We thwart ourselves. We say we are not enough when we look to get back a certain response.

You want to be heard...what we most crave, we are least giving. Listen to yourself when you share...that's half of the sharing, the full intimacy...you are acknowledging, confirming you exist, your stuff matters. Not dependent on response. Really tough to do...so teaching ourselves how to do this usually begins by listening in the way we want to be listened to...(not a certain response)...and holding ourselves to listen and repeat, listen and repeat with filter...and catching our own self-sabotage acts.

Like self-exposure.

See, in my imaginary convo, you are talking about big issues...connecting...and it isn't you doing it for him, or to get him to do it for you. Your H sharing with you his stuff, and you handing it back as his stuff, through your filter, is intimacy.

I applaud you for wanting to remove blame from your marriage. It's fantasy, not reality. In everything, we have our part...isn't all or nothing...just our part. And when we focus, delineate and own our part, we validate and then feel validated.

You can tell you're in a power struggle when your focus is on getting someone else to do/think/say/feel so you will. Going through others to get to what was already ours.

LA

CFIO, that makes sense, that it isn't torture, just doesn't rate as high. And I don't think 60 minutes sounds like a torture. I'm just saying, that it's not enough to judge that someone should want to do something. It's taking the interest to find out where the enthusiastic agreement is, where it can be fun for both folks. Dr. H does have an article, Conversation is boring, where it talks about discovering your partner's favorite topics to talk about. Which likely isn't what happened in the checkout line

Or OH, what your coworker thinks. My H gets mad about that stuff, too. I asked, and it's because he sees me as easily led, and he takes me talking about an idea I heard as me taking direction from folks who "have messed up lives themselves." I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, just that it helped me to understand why this was a trigger to him.

LA:

I love your replay of our conversation. It makes perfect sense. I wonder if I would just crack up laughing at myself because I think I'd sound so silly? LOL And, I'm projecting here but I see H telling me to stop playing shrink and just listen to him or stop interrupting him. He could easily find a way to try to tear me down.

But if I understand you, I keep going--right? So let's say he says:

HIM: Stop playing pop psychologist and listen to me.

I'd say:

ME: I hear you are getting frustrated because you think that I'm trying to be a therapist instead of really listening to your issues. It sounds like you want me to listen to what you are saying and not dissect it.


Is that the right path? Wow, there's a learning experience. Yes, it makes perfect sense because it hands all his emotional crap back to him and doesn't lop it on my shoulders. I'll bet it takes a lot of practice. My brain hurt just thinking up the one-line I typed above.

We make a living from what we get...We make a life from what we GIVE. Depends on whether your goals are I suppose.

You think listen and repeat is dissecting?

It's checking yourself to see if you heard correctly. It's about you. Because you assume stuff...discount...dismiss...instead of hear.

Did you hear his fear, anger and frustration when he spoke in your real conversation? Did you hear him as taking over, interrupting, sabotaging you?

Then say what you heard in your repeat...that's your filter, your stuff. Doesn't mean he's doing it...means you're sharing you're having that experience.

And since you've both been indentured servants to blame, you both are going to hear it in what the other is saying...in many ways..."you're doing this to me" "no I'm not"...and that's great...that's fantasy.

You're feeling it. You're experiencing it. It's yours. That's real. Doesn't make it fact.

You fear him mocking you because he has. Okay. Don't fight mockery. Don't put up with it. "I'm working on connection and understanding. I want to hurt you in some way right now. Feels like hurting you back to stop you from hurting me. I'm removing myself until I get my own emotions under control."

Walk away. Don't stay present when boundaries are crossed.

But ask yourself....do you really want to know your H as he is right now, today? Your expectations of that being too scary, painful will UP your urge to control instead of know.

Know him anyway. We stop doing our unhealthy patterns when the pain of NOT changing them exceeds change.

You're ready for change. Change yourself. And if you think his stuff is crap, then you will think yours is...and we don't share crap...we share what we cherish, think important. You can block out his stuff as crap and hurt inside for doing the same to yourself. And think he's doing it to you.

You hand back what you've clutched, brought in, judged, beaten, savored, focused on and owned...and it was never yours. It was you acting from disrespect (you'd been taught that's love, btw), you did damage and I looked at listen and repeat as injecting respect and doing my amends.

Made a world of difference for me...so you doing it...challenging yourself (and you already did and succeeded in your reply) is what is on the table.

You sound incredulous to me, even though something resonated within you. Seems like you excel at predicting your H...so you live it as if he's already done what you expected, before he does...which feeds the fear and fuels the blame game.

And he doesn't even know yet about our exchange. lol

Be kind to yourself, OH. Don't live what hasn't come...

LA

I think the message of this thread got derailed a bit. I fully support you women not having sex when your husband is an insensitive lout. However, that's not always the case.

There are many stories of men who do make every effort to meet their wife's emotional needs, yet still can't awaken the desire. They take the extra time for conversation, take care of the house and kids, offer gifts, etc. but the sexual response doesn't happen. I think that's what the article is trying to address.

I think women need to look at their situation and honestly determine if there is truly something specific preventing their sexual desire and take steps to fix it. I don't think it's reasonable to point to normal life hassles like laundry, kids, work, traffic, etc. as being the cause of the problem. (That is, provided the husband is also doing a reasonable amount of effort to support the family as well). For example, if the wife doesn't feel like she's getting enough affection to feel sexual, then I think it's partly her responsibility to encourage situations where she'll get affection.

I don't think it's fair for women to put 100% of the effort on the man to awaken her desire. If she is not feeling sexual, she should view that as a problem and look for ways to fix it. I think women get in this situation because it seems their sexual desire can go to 0. I don't think it's the same for men. I know that I desire it regardless of what is going on in my life. Sometimes I want it more or less, but I've never had it go to 0 other than when I was really ill or dealing with a death in the family. So it's important for the women not to assume that the man feels the same about no sex as she does because I can guarantee you he doesn't.

Hi CFIO,

I basically like the article as an 'unabashedly self-centered look into men's minds.' Nothing really earth-shattering in there, but it's good to remind yourself once in a while. The vision of people having great sex lives and both men and women being fulfilled is great, and a little reminder that different folks want different strokes to get there is good.

However, many of the men's attitudes in the article are Disrespectful Judgements! If a woman needs to sleep and therefore rejects some 2am boinking, and the man hears 'You're so undesirable you can't compete with a pillow, and I don't really care about what matters deeply to you,' that's his choice and all in his head! While I agree that a fulfilling sex life is necessary for every relationship, it's more vital to root out the DJ's and it's not a good thing at all for men (in this case - I'm sure women have their own areas) to CLING to those DJ's as some kind of truth.

Also, as a strategic and tactical document, the article fails miserably.

For example, it says women need to:
- Never say no to their men
AND
- Never do it with anything less than pure enthusiasm

The only easy way I can see that happen is to let the women do all the initiating. That way, the men won't get rejected and the woman would love it whenever she initiates, so no duty sex would exist. That's an ideal, though. Most women I know (yes, including me) also initiate out of guilt and being browbeaten into the idea that not having sex with a man means not loving him. If the woman is selfish enough to just initiate when she wants it, though, this would fulfill the criteria stated in the article.

The other, HARDER, way, involves steps from both. Making 'working towards a fulfilling sex life for both partners' a priority sounds like a better idea than 'making sex a priority.'

Because, well, sure I can do that, but you betcha I'll be having duty sex at least some of the time, especially with my man's penchant for trying to initiate at the worst possible moments for me, and his 'fear of new things maybe not working' keeping him from stopping doing those things that I've told him time and again are not working ALREADY.

His hurt for not having sex as often as he'd like may be real, but the idea that he's powerless over the situation definitely isn't.

WD... i don't think you caught the point of the article. It is NOT a 'this is how you do it' article.

It is a "This is how I FEEL" article. There is a BIG difference. Each and every one of us have our own 'REASONS' for not fulfilling the needs of our spouse. But then again... each and every one of us are cruising a message board based upon unhappy marriages as well.

CFIO,

Yeah, I see that - that's why I liked it as an 'unabashedly self-centered look into a man's mind.'

However,

Telling someone 'this is what I think about my feelings' without 'this is what I need and this is what I'd like to request from you' feels horrible for the listener, unless the person you're talking to has specifically stated 'please tell me what you think, and don't bother making it pretty.'

What are they suppposed to do with this information? You're just leaving people to squirm if you don't follow it up! It's much more helpful, compassionate and useful to be clear about what you feel, want and need, instead of just venting about what you think.

I'm substituting 'think' for 'feel' because most of the thoughts expressed in the article aren't really FEELINGS. They're thoughts and judgements, especially the 'if she doesn't feel enthusiastic about sex, that means she thinks I'm worthless'-type statements.

I'm sure you see the difference between 'when my wife says no to sex, I think she doesn't care one whit about me' and 'when my wife says no to sex, I feel sad and lonely and a little angry because I needed some intimacy/physical relief/consideration for my needs. I'd really like her to [insert something here.]' (Pun not intended. :D)

THEN you can POJA. Otherwise, it's just a guilt-trip.