Me too! Please keep in mind the majority of the posters here are hurting BS's. Now back to healing your marriage!

Mrs. W you are right. she is very emo though and she has alot on her plate. I am not easy on her either. I do still hurt. Just don't want her to be scared away from her only means of real support. Her skin does need to thicken a little for this board i agree. that will just take time also. yes her sense of humor can be taken the wrong way at times and sometimes she realizes it after the fact but i know that she doesn't mean to offend anybody. She can be a wonderful wife and mother when she wants to be, she just has derailed herself a few times. And I think with all of your help and my continued understanding we can make it. Don't think that i'm being soft on her, I have told her that this is the last time I will stand for this behavior, it has hurt me beyond words. I just want it all to go away.

I echo these same words.

I know that there are members here who are like me wayward and betrayed. That doubles the confusion and pain. I do need to say that I also hurt as a betrayed spouse as well.

Yes, my skin does need to thicken so that I can take things in stride and not retreat back into myself. That's always been my safe escape. It's very hard to put yourself out there publically and say, "look what I've done" and hope that someone will help you get back to where reality is.

I'm glad that Spartan came forth, but I'm not sure how regular he will be. He reads but usually isn't a poster like me.

The victims in the case of Spartan and Sparkle are “Spartan and Sparkle”. They are both victims. They both need our help.

Mr. G

I completely understand as I am both a FWW and a BS. However, this thread needs to focus on you as the WW.

I agree but they need their own threads. This thread should be to help sparkle earn her F.

Interesting that you say this Mr. G... it was a thought that I myself was trying to put together. 2 weeks ago, in a conversation that I had with my alien-abducted-in-a-really-thick-fog-selfish WH, he told ME he is the victim in all of this! WTH??? Yea, he's the victim. Not me, he is. After reading this thread, I figured it out... Yes, he is a victim of this. Of himself, and his own selfishness that HE is fulfilling by running away from problems that are just going to keep chasing him until he faces them.

PLZ no 2X4's... I don't know if it's because I know Sparky and Sparty in real life or what, but I know that the BOTH want help. For for restoration of themselves and of the marriage. She helped me re-discover this site, and has helped me to understand so much about the alien that has become my husband. The comment Sparky made was made without ill intent. the unfortunate thing about the typed word, we can't actually HEAR the persons voice when they "Say" something.

Now, that being said... should she "grow" thicker skin? Sure.... Shouldn't we all? Sure. But, it's hard to when there is still healing to be done. And, it's hard not to make that "thicker" skin become calloused and so hard that it needs to be filed off in layers....

Just my 2.5 cents.
And yes Sparky.... I'll be posting my own junk from the trunk soon. I like to formulate what I need to say first.

I admire how you immediately came to your wife's defense. That is very telling. Reminds me of me.

Mr. G

Hey, Sparkmeister.

We make mistakes. Some big, some not so big. You came, you commented, you saw, you learned, you apologized, and you're changed because of it. Guess what? There's a chance you might make another mistake too. Oh my gosh... You're human! (I was worried there for a moment.) Just do your best to not make the same mistake twice -- then you and everyone around you will know you are hearing, internalizing, and truly changing.

On these boards you get a hand slap or a 2x4 the first time you mess up -- depending on the offense. A mack truck is what you get for repeating that offense and those are harder to recover from. So you probably want to avoid those, right?

You need to be here. We both do. We'll get smacked. And when deserved, we'll get smacked hard.

BTW, I know that feeling... You post something, you see someone has posted back, you open the thread, then you start reading and understand that the poster saw your words in a different way, or saw them for what they really are and you realize you've hurt someone -- someone you don't know in a way that you absolutely didn't mean to. There's an immediate pit in your stomach and you want to scream out to all of MB-Land, "I didn't mean it that way and I'm so very sorry!" I know because I've BTDT.

You want to open up about everything in this safe place because people here know you even though they don't know you. There isn't anywhere else that provides what MB does. Yet... You also feel there are things you can't admit or say because you want to be sensitive to the gamut of experiences and emotions that are here. There is that fine line for us FWW. In my case, folks here know more than even some of my closest friends, but they still don't know it all due to my continued shame and disgust about some of my behaviors. My H knows every sorrid detail, but you never will, even though I know MBers have heard pretty much everything.

Why I'm going on and on is because I want you to feel comfortable posting here and learning what you need to in order to process and repair this mess you've gotten yourself and poor Spartan into. Please know this is a good place. Know that there are people who are going to appreciate what you share. Know there will be those who hurt because of what you share. Know you need to be open, honest, AND sensitive with what you share. And know that everyone here wants the best for you and Spartan. I, for one, hope that best ends up being the two of you together in a healthy and happy marriage.

Now come on and get back to healing Spartan and recovering yourself. We have work to do.

I've enouraged Spartan to start his own thread so that we can each get the guidance we need separately. Pray that he does!

Mr. Goodstuff:

That's one of the things that I've admired about him. When things REALLY got down to it, he would rise to my side. I told him that last night before we went to bed. I thanked him for his words here and let him know how much it meant to me. He saw me soften and it brought is closer together. That was nice!

I want to do something special for him tomorrow but I'm not sure what yet. He's pretty sick right now so our plans for taking the family out may not happen. Hmmmm.......that will be a fun project to think about!

L4, thank you for your kind words.

Yesterday when I left work, I knew inside that I totally blew it with Vittoria and that left me with a very sick feeling. Not only did I inadvertantly hurt someone whom I didn't know, but I also hurt someone who was trying to help me. I felt EXACTLY the way you described.

I've left out some of the specifics of my A as well because they're simply too private. My H knows those ugly details and that's all that matters. I still get angry with myself but at some point, there needs to be forgiveness in order to progress. I know that Jesus has forgiven me and that's HUGE! Spartan has too, but there is healing that needs to take place and that requires God and time.....for both of us. We essentially took out our guns and shot each other. We have come to a point now where we can joke about the shoe throwing incident. When the news came on about Bush dodging the shoe, he asked me if that was one of my friends. We cracked up! Geez....

All he cares about is that you are not going anywhere, you’re home. That is gift enough.

Mr. G

Vittoria is great and has been a huge help for me, so I understand your disappointment. But hey, if she's not comfortable returning, that's respectable and there's nothing you can do. (Though I know you really want to, right? Because we're both people pleazers and that's something PPs do and dwell on. I know, I know, I know...) Be mindful there are others who are here. Invaluable resources so lean on them.

I'm in no position to advise on the whole forgiveness thing as I'm where you are. In fact, even farther behind as my H has not forgiven me and may never do so. Everyone says I have to forgive myself -- my IC, MIL, family, friends, and yes, even my H. But I haven't granted myself that and am unsure how it might look. I even posted on here asking FWW's how they forgave themselves and it got little action. I think because this is one of the most difficult things for us FWWs to consider let alone accomplish.

There are two books that I've been re-reading that are helping me some. You appear familiar with one of the books, The Bible. The other is a book called How Can I Forgive You?: The Courage To Forgive, the Freedom Not To by Janice Abrahms Spring that I've recommended often on these threads. There's a section on how to forgive yourself.

Cool!

L4,

Maybe this is where I can come to your side. I know that as a F wayward, you almost feel arrogant granting yourself forgiveness for your affair. Forgiveness doesn't mean that it erases the act, but it does give us the freedom to move on from a lesson. As humans, we cannot forgive AND forget because we need to learn. Jesus is the only one who can forget because he doesn't need to learn those lessons. I have my days where sometimes I feel that feeling creeping in on me and I want to take back that forgiveness (especially when I see Spartan hurting) but I know that it's just the adversary trying to pull me back in. He knows that when you haven't forgiven yourself, it makes it easy for him to convince you that since you're already tainted, you may as well finish the job. Don't let him win! Once you've asked Jesus for forgiveness, you know it's a done deal.

Ahhh now see, you have discovered a really neat little side effect of 2x4s here! I remember those! Mr. W also comforted me when I got them...very cool, BECAUSE, the folks here get to "tell it like it is"...Sparty doesn't have to, and you guys end up bonding over it...It's actually a pretty sweet, little formula, imo...

Something you said reminded me of a message given by one of our teaching pastors and his wife...You talked about the two of you shooting at each other, and you couldn't be more right about that...That is one of Satan's favorite things to do to Christian couples...divide and conquer by letting them destroy each other! It's so easy for him that way! It is a nasty form of spiritual warfare...

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places . Ephesians 6:12

Very important to recognize this and come together as a unified opponent against Satan, because he WILL test you again and again...

Mrs. W

L4, it took me two years on MB to forgive myself and to accept that God had forgiven me. I still cringe at the thought of how I carelessly and selfishly almost tossed my family away. Giver yourself time.

You're exactly right. Some of your posts remind me of the things that Spartan would say. You two are kindred spirits.

He's a "no frills" kinda guy which balances us out perfectly. I'm into the pretty details and he's in to the basic foundation of things. He's a mechanic by trade and I've always loved to watch him methodically and patiently work on things. When we first met, I would go over to the shop and watch him work on cars. I remember watching him put an engine completely back together and was AMAZED when he started it up and it ran perfectly. Made me so proud of my man! I still feel that pride.

Does he know this? When was the last time you told him you are proud of him and why?

Actually, I told him last night! Not so much a pride thing but I told him how good I felt when he posted to my thread because I felt protected. I didn't have that growing up so it's nice to feel safe knowing that your man is there.

For our first Valentine's day together, he put a stuffed animal raccoon on my bed...the "Love Bandit". I still have him and I think I'll bring it out on Valentine's day and put him on our bed. Those were great memories for us!

MS,
I was not looking for an apology, nor is one owed. Nothing was directed at me personally. It's not about 'blowing' it with me either.
It wasn't about your words per say but the whimsical attitude in which they were written in direct response to PB's words. This attitude showed little or no remorse for the pain any BS and family have experienced.
I did not read this wrong nor do I need thicker skin. I have survived fog babble, hurtful words and lies from a WH. I'm far from being a pro but I am a player.

On the positive side, your posts seem to have more thought, this is a good thing.
That's all.