ugt ~ give us an update after your appt. with Jennifer, will you please? I am curious to hear what she has to say...

For everyone that has given me advice up to this point or even words of encouragement...I wanted to say Thank-You!!!

In the last 5 days, I have realized some truly important things about myself and the kind of person that I am going be be moving forward in my life. Whether my wife can ever see it in my heart to forgive me is out of my hands, but I hope that as time passes she will at the very least be able to respect me as at the very least, the father of her children. Hopefully at some point she will be able to accept me as more, but like I said that will be entirely up to her and all I can do is try my hardest in every way possible.

That being said, I am very happy. Last night she read all of my posts and everybody's responses. That by no means says she is even close to considering trusting me, but at least she read them.

She said that married Forevers post to me on 2/8@8:23 pm was closest to how she felt about the whole thing and that she would have never put up with this for 3 years......

I'm just happy she read it......I got late and I was at my home and she was at her's and after she was done, she simply said it's late....Goodnight. I was more than happy with that and said the same.....

Thanks again everyone, like I said it doesn't mean anything yet simply that she read it. But I'm at least glad she knows that I truly am sorry.

Thanks again and I will update after my appt. w/Jennifer.

ugt ~ I don't do this often, but if your W would like to email me, my email addy is marriedforever2006@yahoo.com.

It would be best if she were to post here, but I understand if she doesn't want to. I do understand where she is, however, and I would be happy to email with her if she needs someone to talk to.

UPDATE---And it's doesn't look good.

A couple of nights ago my wife read my whole post and comments made by everyone....I was at such a high that I actually had a good day yesterday. At one point she actually let some of her anger out finally (we were online so the swear words didn't seem as bad, but for her to even type them meant she was
VERY VERY ANGRY...While she was reading she asked me what the name of the OW's new boyfriend was (yes--you read it correctly--I'll cover that shortly) and I told her.....She said yeah thats great, this thing has krept into my life again because one of her friends that moved to Vegas, her husband got a phone call from his friend that told him he was coming to Vegas and asked if he could stay at their place and told him "oh and by the way I left my wife and I'm bringing my new girlfriend"(the new girlfriend is the OW in my nightmare)...My wife said and I'm sure it's just driving you F**king nuts that she is going to Vegas with him to doesn't it.....I told her not in the least and I really didn't care what she did because I honestly didn't want anythingn to do with her (I don't)..I know she really doesn't believe me because of my history, but I just tried to re-assure her the best I could...When she does this, it makes me feel good for a couple different reasons...1. I know how badly she is hurt and I want her to yell at me, let it out and tell me what a piece of crap I was/am whatever...2. I hope that it means somewhere in there she still cares and hopes to fix it and is looking for the right answers. Not sure if I'm right on anything anymore, but it's what keeps me going. So we ended the conversation two night ago and had no contact yesterday...
and here is where I am today...

Well here goes....I had the kids last night and tried to call my wife while we were grabbing Subway@5:15 and offer to get her one. She didn't answser, I bought a sandwich and on the way to my house, I had my daughter run it up to the house because I didn't want her to feel like I was just trying to see her. I thought the gesture would be nice...I tried calling her a bit later and she didn't answer....2 more texts throughout the night went unanswered also. This morning, I did the same, but had my daughter run a Mocha in to her....15 minutes later I called her and told her about some events with a new job possibility that I had found out the day before. I just don't know what to do because she won't answer my calls most of the time, I thought I was trying to be as unintrusive as possible while still showing her that I love her, so I said in as nice of a tone as possible...Liz, I don't want to bother you, do you really want me to just leave you alone....and she said to me "uh, yeah haven't I told you that". My first reaction to what she said was OMG..I had done it again, put my need to show her that I loved her and wanted to fix things ahead of her need for space and the respect of her wishes.

I am really starting to be fear that there may be nothing left to really build on after everything I have done to her.....I read about the BS's who would do anything for their husbands to even consider trying and all I read is that how badly and unwilling the WS is and keep doing things to push their BS further away. I would do anything to even get her to consider that I might actually be telling the truth and it's almost more than I can take as I further realize what this truly did to her and it kills me a little more everytime thinking about what she must have gone through...

I really don't know what to do anymore.....I have drafted a email telling her to remember that I love her everyday, am thinking about her and that if she ever needs anything at all that she can call me. I also said that I will keep her updated on my progress on her blog if she cares to read it, but from this point forward I won't call or try to contact her and will leave her alone.......I CAN'T HIT SEND!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know I should and once again it's very selfish not to give her that space simply because I'm afraid once if I'm out of sight out of mind she will totally forget about me...then I remember I was out of sight out of mind for weeks at a time when all of this was going on without one regard for her feelings whatsoever....I disgust myself when I think about it!!! Now that she wants to get healthy and make sure me or no one else ever does this to her again....I don't want to leave her alone and want to talk to her about it everyday.....Who do I think I am......She doesn't and won't allow herself to be in a situation with anyone like that ever again and she has said it.....I try to tell her that I will do everything in my power to make sure that it never happens again...She said to me once after I said that to her, "have you told them you left me once before..I'm sure that would change their opinion on all this greatly (I left once before for a month (7years ago), but it was not because of another woman and there were not any women that I was involved with while I was gone.) but when I think of everything...Why would she believe a word I say??? I wouldn't if I were her....I probably wouldn't want anything to do with me either....

So that's where I'm at....I have the email draft printed out, I don't want her to see it yet...She has all my email passwords, even though I don't think she has used them.....I just don't want her to think "Just what I figured, I don't run right back to him within days and he gives up and I'll bet he has already contacted the OW"....I haven't and won't and honestly have no desire whatsoever to have any contact with her. I know I should send it and honor it, but just haven't. I might just have to let her go and continue to do the right things, but just don't know how she will ever see that I am doing them if we have no contact.

Any suggestions or help from anyone is always appreciated

I have two things to say:

1.) post what Jennifer said to you last night and how that went, I'd like to know what she said...

2.) Mrs. ugottatri, if you are reading this, please email me at marriedforever2006@yahoo.com. I know and understand where you are in this mess, I have been there too. I can be a sounding board for you, it is incredibly helpful to talk to someone who has BEEN THROUGH THIS.

I never would have made it without this board...my IRL (In Real Life) friends were sources of comfort to a degree, but only my friends HERE really GET and UNDERSTAND and can EMPATHIZE with what happens to you when an A has ruined your life.

(((ugottatri and Mrs. ugottatri)))

I'm pretty sure this will be my last post, but wanted to thank everyone that tried to help.

After talking with my wife again yesterday, I'm certain now that just to much damage has been done. The repeated lies, deception, and turmoil have caused her to simply move on with her life without me.

She told me yesterday "I know it in every part of my being, that I will never be with you again"...Pretty clear statement. Sad, but clear...I only have myself to blame. She gave me chance after chance and continued to believe in me as long as she possibly could.

She kept making the comment that married forevers comments about it was great that here husband was trying, but it felt like it was to little to late, the feelings weren't the same and she loved him, but didn't love him anymore were exactly how she felt and she wasn't going to wait another day to see if I was going to do it right this time.

She also said she had already gone through hell and got herself to a good place and just wasn't going to crawl back through it with me to see if we could get back to a good place again. Again, I can't blame her....

So there it is, I still love her dearly and am going to still just try to be there for her, but she has made it clear that we are not together, we are not friends, we are bound together only by our children. At this point, I don't know what else there really is to do....

I thank everyone again for trying to help and will check back in a day or two for one last time to see if anyone has any other ideas or thoughts that may help me show her that it is worth trying one more time or at least keeping the door open to observe and see if I do continue to make changes. Through her telling me this, I have not contacted the OW and will not. My wife told me she still believes the only reason I came back and tried to reconcile w/her is because the other women cheated on me. This isn't true, I broke it off because I realized what mistake I had made. Anyways, I don't want to attempt to open a whole new chapter on a book it seems my wife really does want to finish and close....If anyone has any feelings or advice, I will welcome it as always.

Have a good day.

ugt ~ I am very sorry to hear this, though I do understand.

I hope for YOUR sake that you continue to take the high road and improve yourself...stay true to the promises you have made your W and yourself. This will prove your integrity is in tact and you can move on with your head held high.

This will also prove to your W that you really are who you are saying you are, and who knows what will happen as time goes on.

Mrs. ugottatri...I know you do not owe it to your H to give him another chance. God knows I do not owe it to mine either...however, we have 4 children together and putting them through the pain of a D is the last thing I want to do when FWH is STILL willing to fix our family.

I am doing very little other than watching him repair this. I am not investing my heart. I'm in withdrawal and I am safe that way. It is HIS job to bring me out and prove to me that he is willing to do whatever it takes, for howeverl long it takes, to fix this (per advice from Steve Harley). I'm going on with my life and while my M is not what I want, I am still in a fairly happy place because I am able to focus on other aspects of my life while HE puts effort into himself and our M.

If for no other reason than to spare your children the tragedy of D, I urge you to reconsider. You have already lost everything, what have you got to lose?

If you do this, with the help of this site and Steve or Jennifer through counseling, you can build a NEW marriage...the old one you had is dead and not worth salvaging. That is what recovery after an A is all about.

I started posting for the first time a couple of weeks ago (Came to my senses....Now what?). I did some unspeakable things to my wife during my affair and continued to do them for 16 months. I came to my senses about a month ago and broke it of with OW on my own and have been trying to get my wife to work with me ever since. She does not want to anymore and has made it very clear. I had an appt. w/Jennifer Harley, but cancelled after my wife made it very clear she wanted no part of talking to anyone about fixing our marriage. She said "why would I want to fix anything w/someone who left me 7 years ago for a month and promised to never do it again, then not only did it again but for another women that he told me on several occasions he loved more than me and tried to do the right thing, but just loved her to much". I said those things, but as I type then now it seems surreal. How could I say that???? How could I do this???

The question is.....When do I throw in the towel and say I have to respect her wishes and just leave it alone. I was instant messaging with her today and she made the comment "so, sounds like you've accepted that we're done?"....I said no, I haven't accepted it, but I will respect your wishes and just want you to know that I betrayed and abandoned you once and whether we are married/together or not, I will remain loyal and accountable to you no matter what. I know you are serious about how you feel right now, but I won't betray you again."

I sit and think am I doing this right???? I don't know, maybe I should leave her alone. I just know that she has ZERO desire to talk to me, have contact with me, nothing. She is very nice when we do talk, but she can take it or leave it and only will talk to me if I initiate contact or she has to because I'm picking up the kids or something....I have not tried to not contact her, should I.....I just don't know what to do or if I should do nothing.....I just know that yesterday as I was trying to convince her how hard I would work at this to win her back, she said talk about selfish, if you respected one thing about me or what I wanted you would stop doing this....At that point, I did stop and we hung up. She went to a function last night with one of her girlfriends that we had traditionally always gone to together. I think I know the answer to my initial question, but am just grasping at strings to try and find something that might give me a strand of hope, but I think I may have just hurt her to many times....

Sorry for the novel.......Any suggestions or brutal truths will be gladly accepted.

UGT:

Why would this be your last post?

Are you FIXED now?

Ten days ago you saw the light, and can't believe that your BS hasn't seen the same light as you?

After all that you have done?

Anger is better than indifference. You have seen the anger.

She needs to see the new UGT. She needs to see this New UGT over a period of time that makes it possible to believe that maybe you have changed.

Your not Fixed yet. Doesn't matter if your marriage doesn't recover, its the choices that you made and will continue to make until you find out deep down, what IS wrong with you and fix that.

This site can help with that.

You stated earlier onthis thread that you had scheduled a telephone conference with the Harleys. You have been asked by MF to report on that conversation.

How did it go? Or were you lying about that?

It is good that your BS has been on this site, and read your thread. She will learn much if she stays here.

But its really up to you. Your most recent action does not give anyone confidence that your going to continue to make the right choices. But just keep making them, and it will turn out BETTER.

LG

Are you divorced?

Separated?

Separated and her attorney is preparing a divorce settlement offer for me.

Hey U-

You seem sincere, though I am sure we have not heard the whole story, and that you are almost certainly controlling/shaping the narrative of your story. Still, you seem sincere. So, we thought we'd offer a few words of advice.

Our advice amounts to this: WORK ON YOURSELF!

How?

1. Write the letter of NC - Not for her - not because she cares if you do, or because it might help get her back. Do it because it is the right thing to do. Read the samples from MB and write a strong NC letter for YOU. Mail it yourself to be sure it gets to her -- SLAM that door shut! Not for your wife -- for YOU. Send another to your wife if you need to, so that she can mail it out herself if she cares to, but send one yourself no matter what. So what if the witch gets the letter twice!

2. You need to read Surviving an Affair -- read it for yourself -- not to get your wife back, but for yourself. Prepare yourself to live "by the book." Be a better man, be a better father, and lay the groundwork to be a better companion --for YOURSELF -- not to get your wife back.

3. Stop trying to get your wife back. That seems wrong, I'm sure, but stop. Talk is cheap, and I wouldn't believe you either. If you have ANY chance with your wife it will be through your ACTIONS OVER TIME -- A LOT OF TIME ... 16 months of cheating, and God knows how much longer of being an a$$ of a husband will not be corrected by 3 hours of conversation, one appt. with Ms. Harley, and two weeks of posts to this website.

4. Be a better man -- work on you -- don't send the stupid letter about not contacting her -- get over the grand gestures -- if you have any chance, it will take time ... a lot of time ... with a committed and sustained effort to be the man she has always deserved. Maintain civil contact with the mother of your children, stay positive and caring even if she returns NONE of it, and gives you NO hope. This is not her fault -- you deserve NOTHING from her -- if she is able to politely converse and show care for you, you are a fortunate man.

5. Ask her to visit this site, but not to help her get back to you ... for HER own sake. This is a board filled with betrayed spouses -- some have saved their marriages -- others have not. She is a betrayed spouse and will gain insight and strength here. Allow her to work on herself and become stronger for HER sake, not yours.

6. Leave the door open to your wife and NOBODY else. If things come to pass and you find yourself divorced, there will be plenty of time for you to find other women. Take this time -- ALL OF IT -- between now and either getting divorced (or reconciling) to live YOUR life better. You do not deserve her -- maybe you will someday, but you don't now! This board is filled with couples who have reconciled, and even couples who divorce will frequently remarry. Don't give up hope ... but STOP trying to WIN her back. Work on YOU. Be a better man first, and maybe --just maybe-- over time -- a lot of time -- she will notice that you have really changed. Your ACTIONS -- not your words!!!

7. This is important, so I say again ... STOP doing things that you think will win her attention/affection. It does not matter if she doesn't care whether you send the NC letter, for instance. SEND IT ANYWAY. Repair yourself.

8. Don't stop coming to this website, and don't stop speaking to Ms. Harley (or SOMEONE)! You have a lot of resposibility yet to accept. If you think you regret what you have done now, wait 2 months ... 4 months ... 6 months ... you don't know half of what you've done to your wife and your family yet. You will need to OWN this, and if your wife gives you a second look you will need to atone for this for a VERY LONG time.

We are speaking to you from our own, personal experience. I am a recovering WS, and my wife is a BS. I almost lost my wife and my family. We are fortunate that my wife found MB on her own. It saved us, but not because there is any magic found here.

We have, over time, rebuilt and redefined our marriage. We are creating the marriage we wished for, because we stopped wishing for it, and started working toward it. We committed ourselves to affirming our love for one-another and to strengthening our love day after day. We are stronger, closer, and more in-love than we have EVER been.

Still, even as we write the new chapters of our life together, we revisit the chapters of betrayal, deceit, and infidelity. I still answer questions about what I'd done. I still feel the disgust of all that I have to regret. My wife still feels the hurt, and I still lay myself bare to own the pain I have caused. It does not go away, though I am slowly atoning for MY behavior, and we are slowly putting it behind us.

If you have ANY chance of reconciling, accept that it will take A LOT of time, and settle yourself in for the long haul. Accept that you will go through harder times than this. Know that you will have to face withdrawal (even if it is from something you now despise), that you will have to face down YOUR shame & humiliation, that you will have to endure whatever pain you caused as it is relived and reflected back to you.

Are you giving up already ... when you have not yet even begun? You will almost certainly fail to save your marriage today .. this week .. even this month. Perhaps you will find a way through in the months and years ahead. Possibly you will never save your marriage. You do not have control over that, as you do not have control over your wife. You DO have control over yourself (we hope), and it is in becoming the man you should have been, that you have any chance of being the man she will want. Stop working on HER -- work on YOU.

LG,
I do realize that I'm not fixed. I did have an appt. scheduled with Jennifer Harley, I did not lie. I had to call to reschedule because of a commitment I had made to be at one of my daughters shows and they had to get back to me with Jennifer's next available appts. Since then, my wife has made her feelings very clear. I'm not by any means backing down from the promise that I made to my wife and the fact that she has told me how she feels right now does not change my commitment level to the promise that I made to her.

I have started Individual counseling and will continue with that and am not saying I won't continue to talk and converse with people in here. MB seems like a site primarily focused at helping one person convince another person to work on a marriage and once both are willing, they work on it together. I have done the single worst thing imaginable in a marriage. My wife said to me that MF said it best when she said "once someone cheats it ruins the one thing that you can never get back and that is the fact that she remained faithful to me and had not been intimate with one other person on this planet and I had been and that sacred part of our marriage would never come back.
She is right. I just think she is tired of something new coming up about the A or me in general everytime she turns around. The problem is that I can't tell her everything if she isn't working with me on this....So much has happened in 15 months that we were living apart.

I have seen the anger at times replace what otherwise is total indifference from her. She literally wants no part of it unless I bring up the issue and then it's more of an annoyance to her and often she will state that she can't even believe she is talking to me about it and that the only reason is that she wants to understand how I could have done this to her and that is the only reason why and the thought of fixing us is not even a consideration.

She was on the site one time and read my post all the way through and that is the only time she expressed open anger about anything since I have started trying to talk with her about this again. She has not checked my phone records or emails one time since I sent her the info or activated the GPS on my phone. It came up yesterday because I told her that the OW had contacted me twice last week and then tried again early morning a few days later and then sent me a text...I told her I didn't respond. She said why did you wait until now to tell me, why didn't you tell me right away and I told her I wanted to see if she would look at my phone records....I realize I probably should have told her right away, but I just wanted to see if she would look and that would at least show that she was trying to believe me again. Probably a mistake on my part.....

I honestly don't want anyone that I have talked with in the last couple weeks to think I am throwing in the towel, going to call OW today and start the cycle all over again because I'm not. I just wanted everyone to know where I'm at and ask if there were any suggestions as far as what to do next.

I realized some terrible things about myself personally through this and will not let my life continue down the path it was on.

Glad to read this.


Your words are counterfeit. They have zero value.

"I won't betray you again" .... you forgot to add: "and THIS time I mean it." :RollieEyes:

You said: "I know you are serious about how you feel right now". .... she is not making decisions based on her feelings. You are, she is not. Her decisions are grounded in logic and based on facts.

Fact number 1
You have been a liar and therefore your words are not good currency. You cannot change her mind by words alone.

Fact number 2
Her love bank is empty, not almost empty, empty. Your actions have convinced your wife that you do not love her and you will not protect her when she is vulnerable.

Fact number 3
Your old marriage is dead and gone, there will be no resurrection of that old marriage. Any future marriage you may have with your wife will be build from the ground up, on the ashes of your failed marriage.




You have not tried very long. You have not exhausted all your resources. You failed to do the one thing that might have begun your journey - you cancelled YOUR call to the Harleys. That is not "yada yada yada" ... that would be taking positive action. You would have been given a plan to make love bank deposits. You failed to take actions that are more than mere talking points, from a liar's point of view.

Does this help?

You better get yourself a rabid dog for an attorney pronto.

The "settlement offer" means she is going to rape you.

ugottatri, Pep is right, talk is cheap. As a BS, there is absolutely nothing redeeming in what you have done that would demonstrate to any rational person that you have changed. In fact, you CANCELLED your appointment with Dr. Chalmers. If you want to have any hope of getting her back, it is going to take ACTIONS, not empty talk.

With the absence of any actions, your W is WISE to move on down the road.

Rape or defend? He is the WS, pariah. He has been raping her for a very long time. She is getting divorced because he refused to end his adultery. SHE is the rape victim.

16 months of unspeakable things and 2 weeks of.......

16 months of unspeakable things and 2 weeks of.......

16 months of unspeakable things and 2 weeks of.......

16 months of unspeakable things and 2 weeks of.......


Already asking when to throw in the towel......
:RollieEyes:

I know, huh?
I was thinking Pariah misread this situation.

I fully agree, but he did seem remorseful.

I'm trying to turn my vengeful reputation around.

Y'all know what I would have suggested this time last year. It would have been edited post haste.