Holyheart, I don't know how to get a WH more involved with kids. Mine got a lot of pressure from his mom and I think it helps him with the denial (i.e. I am a good dad -- I call every day and I see them every weekend and Wednesday!). However, as I recently pointed out to him in a plan b breach, a good dad is so much more. He doesn't leave his family, hurt their mother, etc, etc. He and I just believe very differently about that. He was the child of divorce for an unhealthy marriage and my parents were together (and friends and happy) for 42 years.

All I know is that I try to support them seeing him, but also when they don't I let them make that choice. They are angry, too.

I am not much angry as just very, very tired.

DD13 asked me today if I am just going to wait til he gets over this phase and I told her he will likely divorce me first. That's very hard to say, but I am not going to take steps to destroy this family -- he has started this process and I will let him finish it. I just hope I am still intact when he is done.

I've said the same thing. He started this mess and he can finish it.

Exactly one year ago, we were in our second false recovery whooping it up in Vegas. Sadly, that's the last trip we took.

Gosh -- I just want him to wake up!!! Where is my H????? Why can't he just drop OW (1 person) instead of fu*&ing up mine and our kids and our families and our friends' lives??

HE IS SO SELFISH. His "out of sight, out of mind" mentality is taking a toll on all of us. He thinks I can just "move on." He wants the kids to just "get over it." He wants everyone to "mind their own business." He does not want to look at himself in the mirror.

Until when?? He was not like this pre-A. He grew up in a loving, moral home. He was an altar boy. He and I took our kids to church. His parents are still married (48 years) as are mine (50).

Divorce was never an option.

OH -- he now treats his mom like crap. WH's mom and dad have tried over and over to get through to WH about the damage he is causing his kids. Damage by not physically being home. By not being a good role model. By not letting them talk with him. By ignoring them. By not ending A. By lying and breaking promises.

He says that other family will step in and the kids will be fine. "Other family" being grandparents and aunts and uncles.

WH is walking away from ALL responsiblity with the kids except financial. And I doubt financial will continue long since OW seems to have a high need for gifts and trips and pampering.

Man -- my guy is headed straight to he!!. He will hit rock bottom but I don't know when.

Do I just leave him alone and let it happen? It's like watching a train wreck, but unfortunately, I'm a passenger.

I've been paying real close attention to this tiredness I've been feeling -- is it winter, is it my depression, am I just 'done?'

What I did realize this weekend is that WH is done with the marriage. I don't know if that's denial or defiance or determination on his part, but he's done.
I have decided that it is foolishness for me to live as a married woman when my husband is so obviously not married; however, I am too unbelievably damaged to think about dating, moving on or any of that crap, but at least I can look at him and remind myself that he is NOTHING to me right now -- by his choice.

So, a rough couple of days (yesterday was anniversary of the the affair start) and Saturday is V-day. I cried a lot, but I'm quicker to stop and catch myself. I started back on my anti-anxiety medication and more than once asked for a miracle today.

Then I shopped, got a great couple of skirts (which I could justify since the infidelity diet has left my work wardrobe decimated) and a fabulous pair of heels, because a girl just needs some outrageous heels now and again. That perked me up, as did a great dinner with all my kids.

I think I need to meditate a lot about this idea of being single and what that means to me, because that is what I am. Now, does that mean I'm out on the scene or have lost sight of my values -- no, but it keeps me from expecting anything from WH except financial support for kids. Maybe this way I won't be disappointed and can heal a little more.

Aw, Man, bf!! I wish we lived closer so you and I could hang out!

I so feel your pain, BF.

I was thinking the same thing this weekend. I attended my first wedding since D-day. But hearing the vows did not distress me because I know I kept mine. I never lied or cheated or was unfaithful for 23 years of marriage and 7 years of dating. Yep, 30 years of loyalty down the drain for a cheap tramp.

And now he -- yes, he -- has the gall to D me! Me who's stood by him for over a year of this crap.

I, too, feel that my marriage is gone. For the first time at the reception when someone asked where my H was, I said "He's divorcing me. He's left me and the kids for another woman."

I could not lie or protect WH by hiding behind the truth.

HE IS DIVORCING ME.

I know it's no one's business, but I want to continue to expose the A. And I want people to know that I'm not the crazy one who's thrown away our marriage for a romp with a psycho.

Mimi hit the nail on the head when she said that my WH is looking for excitement. And he could have had the healthy excitement that livens up his marriage. Instead he's got drama that I hope bites him in the a$$.

We will survive, BF. One way or another, we will survive.

And am I ready to "move on"? No. OW is the kind to move on. But I'm the loyal, faithful one that will make sure, even after D, that there is no chance for reconcillation before I move on, if ever.

Funny thing last night. BIL teased me that he has someone to set me up with. We also laughted about the lesbian photographer that joked with me as I smoked a cigar with the guys.

BIL hinted that I might want to "switch teams" for a little action. I can laugh now. I CAN LAUGH!!!!!

I hear your fatigue, bf. I've watched how hard you've worked all these months. How you've struggled with Plan B, waiting, waiting. How hard it's been to deal with kids and house alone, and to put up with WH's shenanigans. We all know that the day will come when he regrets it all...

But that doesn't help YOU in the present.

You're trying to figure out whether you're just tired of the long hard months of working toward R, holding out till the affair ends, or if you should just throw in the towel. Given the grayness and gloom of winter in your northern clime, could you consider waiting till spring to make a decision? Have you got that much left? Would you be able to live your life for you in the meantime?

What do you think would happen if you filed for D? Can you project?


ETA: Here's something you posted just the day before yesterday on another thread. Could it be that you're just at the bottom of the roller coaster loop at the moment?

"I am in no rush, becasue there are no simple answers. I have not filed for D because our children and our history deverve more. If you don't agree, fine, but I will not hurt my children anymore than they have already been hurt. Contrary to your research, children are hurt by D. I want them to know that vows do mean something and we don't just chuck people in our life because it feels better to be with someone elsse -- especially someone who has no other relational responsibilities than to adore you."

RHW,
I think its more the rollercoaster ride, but I also have really tried to just see myself as single since that is the current reality. I don't mean that now I'm going to date or anything, but more like he is out of my daily plans kind of single. I don't want to be only defined as his BS.

Its sad to me, too, how my life and the kids life flows just fine without him.

I even considered taking a break from here, because sometimes I get support and sometimes I just get more depressed from other people's pain and anger. When I'm angry at him, I feel like he's got me.
When I just live my day completely without him, I am stronger.

I don't think I can quite get around the waiting because as I did say in the other thread, I am not ready to make any decision and I certainly am not ready to "move on."

The majority of the snow has melted and I looked in some of my flower beds. The snowdrops look like they are just peeking through and there is green from some of the plants from the fall. Spring is a much better time of year for me, for sure, but I will miss him in other ways during that time.

If yesterday and today are the "lows" of the rollercoaster, I look forward to some "ups" tomorrow!

One thing you'll discovery on this "infidelity ride" is that eventually the "lows" aren't quite as low as the ones before. Things actually start to level out more in your ability to deal.

bf,

I think Plan B is exactly FOR living your life for you, as a "single" person, since the WS leaves you no option short of behaving like a whining, whimpering mess. You have certainly NOT chosen that option!

That doesn't mean it's EASY. You've been SO good at getting on with life and dealing with the roller coaster. It's so hard on the downswing to distinguish between a low point and the real end of your rope, though.

Hope you can find more things to fill life today with comfort and enjoyment. The snowdrops are a good sign...there will be others in the months to come. Don't miss them!

(((bf)))

RHW

ETA: "I even considered taking a break from here, because sometimes I get support and sometimes I just get more depressed from other people's pain and anger."

I think we've all reached that point at some time. If you need to back off for a while, try it and see if it helps. Just post when YOU need to. And you have my email address...

Hi BF - this can be a strength too. Babies are born with no fixed memory banks (technically speaking!!!) so that if the mother does not survive, they can be breastfed by another nursing mother and they have a real chance at survival. Life does go on, even when we feel like there is no possible way you can make it through another day.

I love the movie Groundhog Day!


It's ok. No one here is pushing you to make a decision. Your WH is not pushing you to make a decision.

With the Victorian bushfires this week we have already confirmed 184 people are dead, it will climb closer to 300 and 750 homes have been destroyed. People are literally walking around not knowing if their loved one's are dead or alive. I work at the talk back radio station and it is non-stop reporting on the fires and the foresnic investigations as they go through the wreckage looking for bodies. People ring in to the station and ask for people by name, saying they haven't been able to contact them. We know there are at least 800 people unaccounted for. In fact, total towns have been taken out by the fire. Marysville lost over 80% of the homes and main street and the bodies are still being counted. There is so much bad news but every now and then someone missing is found and we get a boost and get through another day. Another 11 confirmed dead but Joe Blo has been found alive and well. His house has been destroyed but he's alive. People have lost everything and I am worried about making advertising sales to make this month's budget and secure my job for a little longer in the worst economic climate we've had in decades. I value my children and my husband so much more. I have told him that with no expectations. Life goes on and doesn't stop for anything.

I know that I don't really think about the future. I just take it a day at a time and the rest takes care of itself.


Spring is coming BF. Love the highs you discover and ride out the lows. It is one step closer to a better life for you.

“Life is not the way it's supposed to be… it's the way it is...
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference.”

2m2l, that's terrible. We're having our own smaller version of brush fires...and it's winter for us! But nothing like y'all's.

bf, I have a suggestion for you. May not work, but it may. Can you consider that what you really are isn't single, but singular? As in, you?

So many people, because of their circumstances here, see themselves only as with someone or without. Not just themselves. It took me a long time to realize that whether or not you have another human 'choosing' you does NOT define you. It can become an element of who you are - if YOU choose so. But the bf you know is so much more. Focus on the rest, ok? Having a man choose you is just gravy that way.

I also think this would be a perfect time for you to do some soul-searching and choose a volunteer opportunity that fits you, maybe something you've always wanted to do. There's nothing better for feeling better when you're down than helping others.

I like the idea of seeing myself as "singular"-- really put a smile on my face!
I have a wonderful job as a counselor of teens and when I am at work it is a really positive time and a good reminder that I am sooo much more than his wife (and a BW at that)!

I think what also happens is I tend to post when I'm pretty low, but that is not where I am all the time. I also know that I am lowest when my kids are with him. I enjoy going out when I can, but I'm a homebody, too, and I really miss them when they are gone. We have been adjusting the schedule some since the kids don't really want to go with him, either.

2m2L -- been thinking about you and all the Aussies out there!! Take care of yourselves and keep us posted on how you and yours are doing during this tragedy!

So, I had a great session with my IC today and among other insightful things, she stated the belief the WH is probably still seeing OW and that they have taken affair just deeper, continuing to hide it from everyone.

That makes a lot of sense and I wasn't suprised, but to have it have it stated within the context of her understanding of his sense of denial and disconnection was very helpful to me.
It led to conversation about could I ever respect him again and how could the kids?

I mean I've thought a lot about how could I ever trust him, but thinking about having 0 respect for him is different. IDK, but I feel like it gives me a little more perspective on the person he is, not who I wish he were.

Hi is still wayward and in the fog BF so he has no idea of the hurt and frustration he's causing you and the children because he is madly justifying all of his behaviour. He is definatley not your H.

Keep strong, I am glad you had an insightful IC session too.

Take care!

So, see what happens when I don't post for a few days. My world goes to poo and I fall almost completely apart!!
So, here's the latest. Holding to a great (most of the time) Plan B until tonight. Got a text from WH about him being late tomorow due to travel plans and a friend talked to me earlier and said I really need to push -- send me papers by ____ or start really working on our marriage.
Of course, he says, "OK" and later that he has every intention of divorcing me and has no problem, except for "resources" for why he has not started the proceedings.
Of course, I cannot still get it through my thick head that he is not who he once was and I cry and push and say some things that I'm glad I said, but still, he is UNMOVED. He doesn't care that I feel A-B-or C or that his kids will be affected by x-y-z, so why, why do I stll ask or expect a different answer???!!!

SO my kids are like, thats it, we don't want to see him or anything since now he's confirmed his intention and now I am sitting in a huge mess of feelings (mine and the kids) and trying to decide best choices. I really need to talk to a lawyer to better understand my options, but I am not afraid of what my future holds, I'm just sad that this is where I am.

Please, any posts or 2x4's or SUPPORT would be great. Ideas? AM I still in A land or am in first steps of D-land....

BF439

BF, you got my SUPPORT and my prayers for you and your family.

Hang tough. It's a hard day and night for all of us.

BF,

He is "unmoved" because he is still wayward, of course. And that bit about not moving forward on a D because of "resources" is the excuse he's giving himself--and most likely OW too. As deep in the "poo" as YOU are, know that HIS poo is deeper.

That said, you know yourself there is nothing you can say or do that can MAKE him climb out of the poo he's in. Responding to his texts is a recipe for more poo for you!

Steve Harley told me my H was "dangerous" while the A was still going on. He knows how the wayward is thinking, which is why he says we need to protect ourselves from it. It's clear your WH is dangerous to you in his current state. You've got to stay clear of him. Contact hurts you every time, and will until something in HIM shifts. Eliminate the hurtful contact!

Your Plan B has been allowing you to become more aware of your "singularity" (love that concept, BTW), and to navigate your life without him. It's also a waiting game that gives the fantasy of his A time to implode. If it doesn't before you give up, you've developed the ability to move on anyway.

WH has no interest in a M with you at the moment, which is par for the course with a wayward. But now he's watching his relationship with his kids sink to a new low. He'll figure out soon that he is throwing more away than he thought. He will learn that his fantasy will not include his kids, by their choice. It's unlikely his OW can make up for all that indefinitely, especially if she's applying pressure. But you can't do anything about any of that right now. You can only handle yourself.

None of us can tel you how this will end, but it's clear that you're running real low on steam. Get busier. Focus on that singular, beautiful BF. She is your best hope. If he dawdles too long, he will lose everything, but YOU will have better future.

Sending hugs and prayers. I know you need them right now.

((((BF))))

RHW

RHW is right on with advice. And that advice is exactly what I needed to hear in my sitch today!!

Let's get busy, BF, doing something else today besides thinking of WH. I'm going to take the kids shopping for their Valentine's Day gifts. And I will buy a few things for me as well.

We need to LIVE, BF. But we can still pray for WH and hope soon, very soon, the A ends.

Well, I know I need to do things for myself and I am really looking honestly what am I doing to really take care of myself -- not faking it (like shopping can sometimes be good, but sometimes I don't deal with the feelings that are prompting me to go buy some fabulous heels). I want to stop being afraid of how much I hurt and just feel it and get through it.

What I find is that one of the things I do for myself is take care of the house as best I can and this week, that even meant accepting help from my neighbor who is a self-proclaimed neat-freak. We are all home-bodies (I like to unwind at home, the kids read or play video games or play with the pug) so we don't mind being here.

I still struggle with the question of am I dealing with an A or a D -- since WH has been so adamant and consistent that he doesn't love me and that the affair was only a "catalyst" for him to understand this.

I allowed myself to feel sad that I will likely get divorce papers very soon, but I am excited about moving forward regardless of whether he ever "gets it," because I know I can do so with a clean conscience.

I wrote some wonderful affirmations on my bathroom mirror and bedroom mirror in lipstick to put in my face what I need to remind myself when I slip into his negative messages.

I feel like I am in yet another phase where D seems imminent, but kids are feeling more and more empowered to share with him how they feel, which I think is good. I feel like I can focus more on what they need to get through this as we move even further away from him. He has said such hurtful things, whether its fog or not, I just have so little respect for him.

Anyway, I do at least, like my counselor and the kids are going to start with her in a few weeks for family counseling. Even WH is going to talk to her this week since she had some concerns, so maybe that will be helpful.

That's all for now -- only DD4 went with him tonight and not for the night, so she'll be back soon.
I'm going to try to spend some time catching up on other's threads and hang out with the kiddos. Got a few days off to relax, so I am going to try and do just that!

BF439