Thanks, Princess!! I need all the reminders I can get to be patient. That is one of the hardest things....
back atcha'!
BF439

RHW, thank you for all your support and kind words. I so need to hear that from time to time...

My mom is coming to visit this weekend and I am really looking forward to her visit.

I had a great convo with MIL last night where she reinforced that I am doing the right things and WH is going to lose out by his choices. She also mentioned that his single life is far sadder and lonelier than I imagine (remember, I picture him having a great time with OW and whatever other skanks he can get to come to his apartment). That was nice to hear, althought I shouldn't be hearing anything if I'm dark!

BF439

Well, if you're gonna happen to hear something, I suppose it's best to hear reality.

But I wouldn't make too much of it. Why? I'll put it like a wise IC said to me years ago: As you learn to differentiate (function better as a complete person), you hold on to yourself, regardless of what the person you're hooked into is doing. You know who you are and maintain it in the face of whatever is going on around you.

She was teaching me this as I struggled with a bad boss and a dysfunctional work environment, but the principle is the same for any relationship. I admit that it wasn't until FWH and I were into recovery that I had the wherewithal to apply the principle to how I "held on to myself" around him.

You've made great gains over these past months, and you've done it under duress. You have my admiration for that (not that what *I* think should have any impact on your view of yourself... ). Know that the better you define yourself, the more freedom of choice you'll have if/when WH pulls his head out of that dark orifice he's been hiding out in.

Big hugs to you. Hope you and the kiddies enjoy the visit with Mom/Grandma!

RHW

Thanks, RHW, I do appreciate your insights and support!

We had a great visit with my mom, ate lots of curry and saw Slumdog Millionaire, which was fantastic!

There was some drama over the kids not wanting to see WH and then wanting to and a possible day trip (see other post to Schoolbus), but not much else. Plan B is boring...

But, I am looking forward to spring and what we can do around the house and garden to keep busy. I am talking to my friends and trying to manage my anxiety and negative thoughts better. There seems to be a shift, where I am allowing myself to feel anger towards WH and at the same time, see myself in a more positive light. I no longer ask "what's wrong with me that he left," but "what kind of man does this to his family?" I guess that's progress!

Got to go and take yet another child to the doctor's for a strep test -- when will this winter end??!!!!

Delighted that you had a good visit with your mom. Assume she is in full support of you as well.

I read the thread where Schoolbus translated WH's notes to the kids. Guess he's missing them, but not enough to make the "road trip" just for them. He still sounds more foggy than sane to me.

I know it's got to be hard, trying to keep your focus on your own present-day life, especially in the dead of winter. Another few weeks, though, and spring will start peeking out, yes? I really hope the tulips and the daffodils will help lift your spirits.

You are already shifting from "what's wrong with me?" (Nothing!) to "what kind of man does this?"

I'll tell you what kind of man...one that doesn't deserve what he was selfish enough to throw away.

Still prayin' for ya.

RHW

Yes indeed!

Do you and your kids have game night? One night a week that you play board games? It's a great way to forget about 'stuff' and just have fun.

I have also found that having a jigsaw puzzle out on a table is a great way for people to navigate to it and just pass some peaceful time together.

Thanks for your prayers, RHW, I truly need them right now. We have had every kids sick (sometimes twice) in the last three weeks and now its my turn. I hope it is only a cold, though, but I may have to get some rest soon!

It was so sad, though, because DS11 is one of the kids home today (with DD13) and I had to work. I told him he could call his dad and ask him to come over if he wanted, but I really didn't want him at the apartment because he would just watch tv (but that was an option).
Anyway, when I came home at lunch to make them soup, he said his dad said that he had too much work to do and couldn't leave (WH works from home and coffee shops). He has not seen him for two weeks, has attempted multiple times to see DS11, but did not jump on this opportunity. Yes, son could come over, but he did not want to. Why would you not leap at the chance?! Even if its to come over for a little while to care for your sick kid! I had to change my schedule today for them-- its part of parenting... DS11 was definitely sad that his dad wasn't coming over to see him. I felt so bad for him...
I can tell DD13 is really sick becasue she knocked off her attitude and even let me kiss on her forehead.

I'm also been having a really hard time even picturing that I would want WH back in my life. I don't know if this is the LB draining, but I can't imagine the amount of remorse I could even see from him that would make me want to be around him. His actions just continue to reinforce that he is so unhealthy and not who I want to be around. It floors me that early on his goal was to be the "best friend" he can be to me (while sleeping with OW) and that he believed I'd be ok with it? WH fog is soooo funnnny.....

Thanks, catperson! We don't have game night, per se, but we do have our rituals. They each get to pick a meal they want to make with me during the week and we love our movie nights. We are trying to come up with more ideas, but we are all sort of waiting for spring so we can more easily get out and about.
Overall, we are a pretty happy family unit-- too bad WH does get even a smidge of how well we are doing right now.

I'm just starting the process of plan B; your thread has been so helpful to me to get started. I also have kids (8 and 5) and that has been part of the paralysis for getting my plan started, but no more (I have a thread that explains why...)

I too am realizing what I am going to lose here. My WH is still in the house, but really isn't, if you know what I mean. He still expects me to take care of everything, even while he is telling me that he doesn't love me and so on.

Just rambling...just wanted you to know that your thread is really helping me get to the place I need to be.

BTW, I'm of Indian origin, so I too look for comfort in curry!

Hey, ccphoenix! I was so anxious to go to Plan B, for the peace, but I was so scared, too. I was scared that he wouldn't care and he may not, but after a few bumps in the road, I have to say that it cements for me that if WH doesn't want to be with me and is willing to do what he needs to do to truly be healthy, then I do not want him in my life. That prospect gets less scary to me every day, but I can't imagine how that would go with him in the house!?
Have you checked out Neak's story about this?

Also, I am partial to Thai curry, but I love all Indian food! My kids love it, too, so its a family affair!!


BF439

So, hopefully this will be the first of many more positive posts from ol' BF439 here...

I had a great session with IC today and we really looked at how I had put my needs second for so long (WH's job came first -- even if I didn't feel cared for) and especially how I did not set a firm boundary about how I needed to be treated in our marriage. I wasn't abused, but I did not feel important to him for a very long time. Now, instead of really confronting it, I withdrew even more, which I'm sure did not help his need to be admired and cared for.

So, both of us were pretty sad and lonely for quite awhile -- not our whole marriage and not a totally hopeless situation as WH has defined it post A.

Anyway, I realized that this is part of why I got so upset with myself for not taking the bull-by-the-horns on d-day and kicking him out and telling him what I expected for him to be able to return. I know most BS don't do that and the shock and fear of it all can be too great. However, I realized today that my Plan B is that boundary now. Whereas in June I was too afraid to say "end it and you can be in my life (because what if he didn't -- which he didn't anyway!)" I am not afraid to say that now.

Plan B is not just about the BS buffering themselves from the distorted thinking of WS, but it also the powerful boundary that the BS is hopefully ready to set:
Leave the OP, commit to me and the family and we can talk. If not, I am not interested.[/
So I am not being unreasonable and unhelpful for the kids -- I am telling him, my kids and the whole world that I deserve a partner that holds me in such esteem that he would never expect me to be his "friend" while he is still involved in any way, shape or form with another woman.

I deserve more than that and I will not settle for less than a whole person.
Today, today is a good day!!!!

Wow, bf. That's a pretty sturdy attitude you're toting there! A frame of mind that will surely serve you well, no matter what the future brings.

You've worked hard to get here. All that practice is paying off.

"Sturdy" is a funny word for how I feel!

I do feel like I am beginning to get to a place where I really see his dysfunction and realize that I have spent most of my marriage living in response to him. There were definitely things that he did for me, but the overall relationship was driven by what WH wanted.

I think that got worse when we moved where we are now and his job seemed to overshadow everthing in our lives.

Anyway, these have all been very helpful insights. They have been insights about ME and not necessarily about the M or the A. That feels far more powerful. I do have my low points, but I allow myself to feel them and I also allow myself to feel the anger that is appropriately there.

For example, called MIL last night, so angry with WH about something -- not even something major, probably about visitation stuff. But she listened and was supportive and allowed me to cry and just be mad at him. I think sometimes I call her, because I know she can confirm for me that he is hurting over this and does regret what he's done to me and the kids. He hasn't translated that into any kind of action, but that is not my problem (I used to think it was). Sometimes it just gives me some comfort to know that he feels SOMETHING!!!

One thing she said, tho, that concerned me is how could I ever trust him again? I don't know if I could, but its a moot point because he is not interested in earning my trust. If we ever got to the point of R, I assume working through that with MB principles are how how people build trust again.

So, kids update:
DS11 does want to see him, but not spend the night (same with DD4) -- DD13 unsure still if she wants to see him. We have asked that he stop asking for a little while -- the kids feel so much pressure! I am working on letting them know, loud and clear, that I will be just fine if they visit, stay, anything, with their dad. They know I miss them when they are gone, but I am fine on my own.
The kids and I have a lovely life together. We miss WH, but I can't help but think that its so peaceful now -- why wasn't it when he was around? He was always a big grouch in the morning (which had us all starting our day crummy) and then we didn't see him until 6:30 or 7. He cleaned up the dinner dishes, played piano or was on the computer and then the kids went to bed. It's like he didn't want to be there at all.

I refuse to accept that that was a reflection on his feelings towards me -- that is about his inability to connect and express his own needs.

My work revolves around why didn't I express my needs to him -- I wasn't happy with how we were living, but I was too afraid that if I pushed it, he would have gone. Probably because I knew he was more committed to himself and his job than he was to me. That sucks!

Ahh,,, personal growth is a wonderful thing... I still wish he'd get his head out of his nether regions -- I do miss his stupid laugh....

BF439

BF...Once again your thoughts reflect mine. I, too, now realize that I've lived in the shadows of WH. Not for most of the M, but these past few years. And this seemed to have happened without me noticing.

WH is obsessed with money -- has to be #1 EN for him. And around that time, my home business started to decline to the point that I wasn't bringing home any money. So I tried to make up for it by being super mom and wife -- doing all the chores, doing all the driving, doing whatever WH asked without asking anything in return. I guess I bent over backwards "earning" my keep by being everyone's slave.

And when WH would come home from work, I would still be working -- making dinner, doing the dishes, making school lunches, laundry, mopping, etc. while WH sat on his a$$ at the computer playing on-line poker. And I would often bring him his dinner so as to not disrupt his game. And he would often stay up late into the night playing, and I'd go to bed alone. And I allowed this to happen -- Why? Because I felt guilty that he worked all day and brought home a pay check and I didn't. And I believe, in his mind, that my role became cleaning lady/nanny and his became bachelor/master of the house. He stopped respecting me!

And, I, too, wish I had set strong boundaries on day one. That I had kicked him out and meant it. (Actually, I did kick him out during week 3, but let him right back in after a few days.) Then fear got ahold of me, and I sank further down and let him get away with murder. I knew he was seeing her or talking with her and I let it slide. And I let him talk to me about her. I let him hurt me with his words of love and lust for her because I felt there was something wrong with me. It got out of hand with the details and all, but I let it happen. It's likely damaged me forever the sorted details of their relationship. I should have said STOP --NO MORE. I WILL ONLY TALK OF US AND OUR MARRIAGE -- NOT OW.

I was afraid he would leave. I was afraid I'd be alone. I was afraid of not having WH as my H and as a part of my life.

But I don't have that fear anymore. I have grown. Nothing in our relationship justified the A. Nothing justified the lies. Nothing justified him leaving us so financially in debt. Nothing.

But I never let him experience consequenses for his actions. The D will be those consequenses.

Thanks for the thoughts, Holyheart. I feel like the grinch in that my heart (or maybe my head) has grown three sizes this week. I don't know if I have drained my love bank or what, but I feel so different about where I am.

I have begun the shift away from focusing on WH to focusing on me. I think the A and the pain from the fall-out of the A really escalated my focus on him and what he is doing, but that hyper-focus on him is nothing new.

THAT is something I take responsibility for and am working on changing for my own well-being.

I am reading, Codependent No More, by Carol Beatty, and lots of lightbulbs have gone off for me. A huge part of the fear in my situation is that I feel good about myself when others feel good about myself. That's why for me the A was so devastating -- if WH doesn't want me, what point is there for me to go on? I don't know who I really am on a good day -- throw in being a BW and I'm about sunk.

So, what do I know?
I know that I do believe in M and that unless there is abuse, it is worth taking care of and maintaining. I know that WH may have a completely different belief about M and I can't change that.
I know that have done the best I could with what I had during this process. Now I will do better because I am working to better understand myself and what I feel and what I truly need.
I know that I will be fine without WH in my life -- better than fine.
I know that if he gets healthy and I get healthy then together, we will produce one of the best outcomes, but not the only 'best' outcome.
I know that I need to work on being a whole person -- not half of a whole and that will require me to do things differently than I have before and that can be VERY scary for me.

I know that I have very little respect right now for WH because of his actions and I would need to see some real change for me to feel the respect I once did.

I know that I thought I took care of myself and made myself a priority, but I really didn't. Others came first and then I resented them. Then I would "treat" myself to things to make up for it. Often those things were only band-aids and they did not make me really respect myself -- in fact I felt guilty about buying them. So I never really got out of that hole of negative emotions.

So, its a lot like being lost and having no map and then your Navigator jumps out of the car, but wishes you well. A little more wandering until I find the right map (after months of crying!). Still lost, learning to read the map is hard, but at least I know I have what I need to find my path. Maybe my navigator (WH) will find himself at the same place or come back and truly help, but I will be able to do it on my own now.

I love metaphors like that -- but I don't know if they only make sense to me!

I know this is long, but I will probably post what I learn here, since it helps to write it out and get some feedback. Heck, I got to have something to report in Plan B -- not much else going on!

bf,

Do you see your own growth? It is certainly clear to me! Go back and read a couple of your earliest posts and you will see it.

Standing on your own and holding on to yourself while untangling your WH's stuff from yours has already brought you to a better place.

And now you are in a position to focus ONLY on you and your path. Your strength is building. And it's showing...

RHW

Sometimes I get scared that I am setting myself up for a big fall, but honestly, I do feel good and I don't desire to be around him at all because he is NOT A HEALTHY PERSON!!!!

I want to be healhy and happy and I know that will take time, but what a better time than now?!

One thing I read in the book that really hit home is that people with codependent traits tend to react (over or under react), but they don't tend to ACT. That really hit home for me. I need to act on my thoughts and feelings and stop reacting to WH's.
, RHW!!!

Ok, here's my weekend update ("with Tina Fey and Amy Poehler"...)

Anyway, I am still feeling pretty good and decently strong. It's a wonderful feeling! I still miss my WH, but I seemed to have really turned the corner in terms of defining myself by him and instead trying to better know me regardless of him or any partner!
The readings in Codependent No More has been helpful, so has the the warmer weather (just makes me feel more positive :)), but also working in my yard, where I understand light and soil and the slow process of spring which is very comforting.

Not much has changed in terms of WH -- still no D papers, no push for Mediation, but no effort to come home (he did wave to me yesterday...) DS11 stayed the night Saturday, which I enthusiastically encouraged because I want him to see his dad. DD13 still sees him rarely and DD4 has seen and visited with him, but does not want to spend the night.
I don't know how he gives up so much of his time with them.... I'd be pretty sad.

I have gained 10 lbs since Christmas, which is very good -- approaching a healthy weight, and I feel strong enough to tackle some of the bigger jobs around the house. I think the kids even sense that I am stronger and they don't worry so much about me. The downside is that they give themselves permission to be children which is more aggravation for me, but, hey, I can handle it!!

So that's about all for tonight... I have lots of space to heal and grow, thanks to my IM (if you don't have one, folks, get one -- I highly recommend them! I hope one day to pass on the favor!)
I'll post more if there is drama or nothing. I hope its not too boring to hear from a quiet Plan B.... Blessings to all!!!!

BF439

Oh, Lordy, you said a mouthful there. Does it help you to know that recovery requires the same thing? I am struggling to see more clearly how I react to my FWH instead of coming from a true place inside me.

I think everybody does that. Those of us who become aware of it, and work to change it, will reap the rewards. When I am frustrated with not being totally "there," I remind myself that I spent many, many years oblivious to my "reacting," so it will probably take a very long time to ferret out and fix all the ways I still do it!

Probably the rest of my life. Maybe yours too.

So what? We're already ahead of the game!

Keep on truckin'.

RHW

PS: It is NOT boring to hear what you're doing in Plan B! In fact, it is very helpful to us when you share it. Thanks.

Today is just a low day --not terrible, but I feel that overwhelming weariness that I remember from the fall.

I think Mondays are a trigger for me, as silly as it sounds, because Tuesday is trash day and I have to get the trash and recycling out on my own (used to be WH's chore). Usually the kids do it, but there was a bunch since I cleaned the garage so I just did it.

Then I to try to deal with everything my kids need and stuff the neighbor kids need, because their life is a mess, and I start to feel pretty darn resentful.

The icing is when WH calls to talk to the kids in the evening and I just want to scream:
"DON"T YOU CARE ABOUT US AT ALL?!!!! DON"T YOU FEEL GUILTY FOR LEAVING ME WITH ALLL OF THIS RESPONSIBILITY??!!!!!

But I don't, because I don't even talk to him...

I know that I need to better clarify my boundaries, with WH, friends, with kids and neighbors and keep them. This morning my DS11 had another morning detention that I didn't know about until 15 minutes before it was to start and I was still getting everyone ready. I let him just walk to school (which he could do easily) and let it go. He had had one yesterday, too and we went through almost the same thing, so today I was like, uh-uh, mister, you didn't tell me in time, so you'll have to get yourself there. He was mad, but I think it was the right thing...