Nope!

Unrepentant adulterers don't get off any more than unrepentant murders, thieves, or blasphemers. Only REPENTANT anything gets their debt paid, keeping in mind that the word REPENT implies a change not merely in actions but also in thinking.



Just like attempted recovery with an unrepentant WS leads to false recovery, unrepentant admission of sin leads to false belief in forgiveness.

REPENTANCE is required for forgiveness..

Perfection is not.

Mark

There inlies the problem with my Baptist upbringing.

Baptist is once Saved Always Saved no matter what.

What you are suggesting is you can forfeit your salvation.

Maybe in this world

BUT

Even in this world Karma seems to eventually steam roll unrepentent waywards.

Yours was given the gift that will keep on giving for the rest of her life

Here is why Dude. There are people who are “religious” and attend “church,” because it fulfills a need in their life to be “good.” It FEELS good to be good. People also enjoy the socializing aspect of going to church. Here they are, a good person, socializing with good people. That must make them good. But in the end, it is only providing the personal need to FEEL good. So people who use church and God to FEEL good, also fall into other bad behaviors that make them FEEL good.

Lets take for example Jimmy Swaggart, Rev Jim Bakker, and priests with young boys. They’ve fallen into bad behaviors, yet they fight to keep their positions. If Swaggart, Bakker, and the priests did what they did for God, they would step down from their positions but, just as we all say get a divorce before sleeping around, they don’t. Even after they are exposed they seek to keep their positions of authority and power, because it makes them feel good. How SELFISH!!!! Swaggart’s tears were surely for this million dollar empire.

Your wife toted the Christian line, because that’s what defined her as good. The divorce rate of Christianity equals the rest of the world. Christianity does no better! Christianity is chalk full of “feelers.” Your wife followed her feelings first. Now given the importance of your WxW’s need to FEEL good, I’d say this put the odds of her repeating that mistake at very low. This mistake has surely shaken her to her core and has back-handed reality into her head. Bottom line is your wife was “playing church” just like Swaggart, Bakker, and the priests, else she wouldn’t have done what she did. I’ll give you this Dude, you sure put the fear of God into her now... Now maybe she will truly seek God in humility versus playing church.

I’m still onto you Dude….

No. You see, there are many "christians" who are not Christians. Here's what I mean.

Many here see me post this little quote: "just because you sleep in the garage does not make you a Ford." What that means is that you can be the best person in the world, feed the hungry, help teach the poor on how to get what they need, go to church every Sunday, etc.....and stil lend up in Hell.

You can also be a murderer and cannibal, and it still be possible to end up in Heaven. As Billy Graham once said...it will be a surprise to many who is in Heaven, and who is not!

So, how does that work? How does a murderer make it to Heaven, but a "good" person possibly not make it?

Simple. None are good enough to make it to Heaven. No one is!!! When you start from that fact, then understanding how this could happen is easy. You see, all of us have a chasm between us and God. Now, that chasm might be 500 feet apart. Or for some of us, it might be as wide as the Grand Canyon. But, no matter which it is...no matter how hard we try and jump across, none of us can make it.

So, we were left in the beginning with a problem. We separated ourselves from God, with no way to get back to Him. Thanks to Adam and Eve, we were born dead in our transgressions. Even one sin put us so far away from God that there was no hope of ever getting back there.

Many look at different sins as weighted. Stealing isnt as bad as murder. Adultery isnt as bad as rape. But what they dont get that in the eyes of God, ALL of them have the same penalty. And that is death. That is separation from God.

So, with that, how is the chasm breached? Well, we all know the "story", right? God decided to bridge the gap. And He sent the only one that could bridge the gap. You see, it had to be a human that made the chasm crossable. But remember, no human had that ability. Only God did. So, God sent his Son to become a human, and then die for us in order to give us a way back.

Now, to the theme of this thread, how is it a Christian can commit adultery? Well, first off, Christians are human...thus we have the same failings as anyone else. But, what is the difference? How can a murderer get to Heaven but a "nice" person end up in Hell? Well, it isnt a list of rules! It isnt a book of rules.

It is a relationship. It is becoming a part of God's family. And once you are a part of His family, yo uwil lalways be a part of His family. But, how do you get into His family? Simple. Accept what Jesus did for you, and then decide that He is Lord. That you will follow Him. Once you invite Him in, He is always in. You cannot lose Him, or kick Him out. Once saved, you are always saved.

So, how is it that some Christians might end up in Hell? Well, the easiest answer is that they probably were never Christians (my Ford analogy!). Sure, they acted nice and went to church, etc. But as the Bible says, one day they die, they get to the gates of Heaven, and then cry out to Jesus "Lord, Lord." But, they never had accepted Jesus as Lord in their lifetime. They were never a part of the family. So, Jesus looks at them and says "I never knew you." The saddest four words I can possibly imagine!!

But for the murderer, if he wasnt saved, it is possible for him to find Jesus and to bring Him into his heart and life. To become a part of His family. Stories out of prison state that while in prison, Jeffrey Dahmer was saved. Shortly aftwerward, he was murdered by another inmate. Now, if Dahmer was truly saved as the story states, then when I die, I expect Jeffrey Dahmer to be in Heaven.

But the irony is that if his victims were NOT saved at the time Dahmer killed them, then I would expect that they would be in Hell today.

Many say this is unfathomable! How could God be so heartless? But, is He really? God gave us a way back, when all we deserved is destruction and death. If we chose not to accept that way back, then that is our decision. And God is a gentleman and will honor our decision.

But once we belong to Him, then He will treat us like one of His family. Which includes punishment and admonishment. So, if a Christian commits adultery, let's say, it will be very evident that they are saved. How? Well, you will see the punishment by their Father. Believe me, I saw first hand the hand of God on my wife's backside. It was scary, actually. Even today, she suffers some of the consequences of her rebellion.

I could give the passages for anyone that is interested that shows how God takes care of the wayward, rebellious Christian. but I will close with this...if a person says they are a Christian, and sins (and we all do), watch what they do then. Watch what happens in their life. Watch for evidence that their Master is interceding.

If you see that evidence, then you can be pretty sure that they are saved and God is on their case. If you dont see it, well....as it says in the Bible...you will know them by their fruits!

AGREED....DUDE

Thank you for posting this. It's true that all sin is sin and I'm so glad that God doesn't judge everyone the way that people judge other people!

So what is being conveyed is, my XW can "repent" get remarried and do it all over again if she "repents" again?

From what I have read in the rule book, I'm not even allowed to remarry even though adultery is the only allowable reason for divorce.

She ain't gonna repent because she thinks she's absolved to begin with because our marriage wasn't "blessed" like the other church people, meaning we weren't wealthy after we got married.

The OM was catholic, she liked the idea of indulgences and confession to absolve you and your slate is clean. At least that is one of the lies told to her by OM. It fit her purpose.

I still say if she truly repents, I'm STILL the loser in this trainwreck because she can't give me back my home or my trust.

Nope. It isnt what it says. Read Hebrews 10. it tells how God deals with those in rebellion (Christians). If you dont see God dealing with her, then she probably was not saved in the first place (and thus has a FAR bigger problem!!!).


Wow. Looks like she hasnt read the Bible much.


I am not Catholic, and dont want to get into issues I have with the Catholic Church. But I will say that the Bible doesnt talk of any of this. It does say that adulterers and some others in the list it brings out will not enter Heaven. What it means is that unrepentent adulterers will not be able to make it in. Anyone that repeatedly sins in this way, and goes back for forgiveness, is abusing Jesus and what He did on the Cross. God is not happy with those that abuse His Son.



Well, a home is just some lumber and nails. It can be replaced. Just as if a fire or tornado had destroyed it.

Your trust? Well, that is possible. But you have to understand that if you are relying on Jesus for EVERYTHING, then you wont have to worry about trusting her.

You do know that my "church" decided that she was salvagable one and asked me not to return, right? That wouldn't be because BIL was a wealthy attorney married to her sister would it?

I haven't set foot back in church since.

I met the Man himself when I was bleeding to death. I got a look into things that you could never comprehend, heck even I have problems comprehending.

Pariah,

Please don't confuse the perversion of some group with what the Bible actually says.

Your marriage might not have been a real marriage to her, but it was because she ignored her vows not because anything was lacking in the union. I would bet it felt pretty real to you or you wouldn't still be struggling with its demise this long later.

She was the one who broke the marriage covenant, Pariah. She was the one who dissolved the union. You are no longer bound by the marriage because she was the one who destroyed it.

The only thing holding you to the marriage at this point is YOU.

She took a lot from you, but don't blame it on being a Christian because there is nothing found in following Christ that makes what she did right or even justifiable. Your argument isn't with Christ, it is with her and I doubt He would claim her as one of His own.

At some point you have to define yourself and explain what YOU do based on YOUR choices and not hers. The Bible doesn't excuse her actions and didn't tell her to do them. Christ doesn't accept adultery as acceptable behavior and unrepentant adulterers won't be accepted by Him in Eternity. You can blame her for what she did, but you can't blame God, because He had nothing to do with it.

What she did to you was reprehensible...

What are YOU going to do NOW?


Mark

Exactly. As a former abuse victim I had to get to that point myself. My therapist had me write out everything that was done to me when I was growing up and read it to her. I did. When I was finished with everything she said "So what happened next?" and I said "Well nothing but..." and she said "It's over- it's in the past- what you do with your future is your responsibility"

Eye opening moment.

There are many people in church today that are liars, molestors etc but there are many good people. Don't let the bad ruin it for you and please do not let this ruin the rest of your life and make you any more bitter. If you do then she has really won. Don't let her.

ALL DUDES NEED TO MOVE TO TEXAS. I CAN NOT IMAGINE LIVING IN A STATE THAT DOESN"T GIVE YA 50% OF YOUR ASSETS AND NO SPOUSAL SUPPORT. Just CHILD SUPPORT AND WALK W/ MY 50%!!


DUDE

I would be interested MM.

Funny how the ones who's marriages recovered opinions are different from those of us who are on the receiving end of undue tribulation.

Sure I have a great job and GF now, but is that supposed to pay me for the loss of my family and murder of my beloved pets?

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries

As somewhat of an agnostic, I've avoided this topic but I clicked and got to this post which struck a nerve with me. It's actually not God that I doubt, but religion - especially organized religion. Organized in the sense of anything that humans have had a hand in and it's because of the perversions of "some groups". It is a spiritual struggle that I deal with but as a result, as soon as someone claims "the Bible says so" or "Christianity says so" or "___insert religious doctrine___ says so", I am immediately put off. I have both experienced and witnessed perversion of religious groups - not to mention the entire history of mankind is full of it.

How does one keep their faith in this world?

Pariah,

The New Living Translation says it like this:



And The Message (paraphrase) puts it this way:



I included verses 28-31 because they really speak to the heart of the passage. Ultimately, God has the final say...

Sin isn't just an action but really an attitude. This is the case for all sin and not just adultery. It is an attitude that says "I am above what applies to others." and "What God thinks doesn't apply to me." Sin isn't a line that gets crossed but a direction one is headed. And for the Christian the way is well marked. A real Christian can only move toward sin by ignoring God's warnings, telling God to shut up and doing what is known to be wrong. All sin is really just nothing more than telling God that we get to decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong. It is saying "I will be like God" because God has that right and we don't.

Mark

Tabby,

I understand where you're coming from. The perversion I saw in what Pariah was talking about was that a person's worth, value or genuineness in the eyes of God can be proven by their wealth. This is a common and dangerous perversion of God's word today as far as I am concerned. Teachers of this drivel point to Jesus saying "I have come that they might have life and have it more abundantly." But when you look at this statement it does not say that Jesus wants for us a life of abundance, but that we have "it", that is, life more abundantly. So what he is saying is that he wants for us to have an abundance of life and not a life of abundance. The NIV says (John 10:10) "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

So what is being conveyed by the verse is not what is being taught on the matter.

The thing is, once I have seen such a teaching from any group, it brings into question everything else that they might teach. I have found that when one error is present, there are usually many others as well. While many would say that a person or group can be wrong in some regard and yet still be a valid and true teacher in other ways I ask, who is to determine when what is being taught is in error or in outright perversion of the teachings of God? If I must weigh each thing that is being said and determine for myself if it is good or evil and I must examine each and every thing that a person or group teaches to find out if it is right or wrong, then I must know more than those who are teaching and so these people really have nothing that they can teach me since to keep myself safe from error I have to know more than they do to figure out when they are saying something wrong.

And yet we are instructed to weigh what is being taught against what the Bible says. I took this so literally that I began to study koine Greek so that I could read the New Testament in Greek. I planned to learn Hebrew and Aramaic as well but I found that when the words are weighed based on context, not just for the passage but for the culture, time and place when written, the English translations of today are pretty accurate as to meaning and content. Where error exists in translation it has more to do with method than with message. It has been said that the main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things. Samuel Clemens said "Some people are concerned over passages of scripture that they do not understand. I am more troubled by those portions that I do understand."

The best way to determine if what is being said about the Bible is true is to read it for oneself. Then any disagreement is with the author and not the teacher.

When Secret Service agents are taught to identify bogus bills they are given stacks of real U.S. currency to count. They handle real money day after day. They become so good at recognizing a real bill that when a counterfeit is thrown into the mix they identify it at once.

You can't really criticize what the Bible teaches until you know what that is, not based on some person's whimsical fancy but based on the text itself. So the only way to judge the Bibles value is to read it yourself and understand what it says. Then nobody can steer you wrong because you yourself will know what is true.

BTW, reading the Bible from page 1 until the end is a good way to give up before reading very far. If you wish to really understand the context in many cases you also have to learn about the customs and practices of the time and place where stories are set. But if you read it yourself you never have to take the word of someone else who says "the Bible says so..."

Mark

A huge part of XW's problem was covetousness. Most of the congregation worket at one of several of the factories making exuberant union wages and I was a school teacher, she had no education and had to work lower paying secretarial jobs.

We didn't have alot of money, but we really didn't hurt for anything. HOWEVER the people at church had huge houses, a boat and two SUV's plus hunting leases, vacation homes in Florida and they went on vacations. There was always some sort of cookout over at any one of their homes on any given weekend.
Before XW divorced me, we had managed to scrape up enough to get a used travel trailer and put it in a lot on the beach to the tune of $450 a month which we split with her wealthy sister.

We had a smaller 1300sqft house in the next county over. Her sister is married to an attorney and they could afford anything she demanded. XW's brother works (soon to be worked) in tire factory. He literally has a huge house, two cars a big boat 50 acres of hunting land and a house on the coast in which to go fishing every weekend.


However a few years back one of his sons got killed at his father's house on a 4-wheeler that of course was bought to spoil the kids with. So FIL in his guilt showered them with money until he's financially destroyed leaving XW with no inheritance.

Soon, the tire factory is going to close and move to China. He is up to his eyeballs in payments for all these "blessings".


I still remember the folks in church praising for all of their "blessings" they were receiving. Bragging is what I called it.

So far the GM alternator plant closed and moved to mexico, the tire plant is closing and who knows what's next. There is the possibility of the military base closing with the reduction in defense spending, that is where OMW works.


My XW is a coveter and is filled with envy of other people's stuff. She felt because of her appearance, she was entitled to an easy life. I got news for her now, her shelf life is up and no wealthy man will be willing to support her greed. They want a young chicky.