Thanks for the advice and yeah everything does look like a nail right now. My situation is bad and it is hard to clear my head and allow my mind to settle. The real problem is I do have a slight case of OCD (obsessive cumpulsive disorder) that I found out about the last time I went to counseling with my wife. When I get a problem in my head it rattles around in there untill it is resolved. Some times I just wish I could turn my thoughts off but they just keep running. Last night I talked to a friend back home because I couldn't sleep and told him about how I'm doing. I have noticed I am flirting and being flirted with quite a bit and I stop to think, what am I doing I'm married? He said its just me finding myself as an individual and as long as it stays innocent that's ok. What should I do if I find someone I find attractive and they are feeling the same way. I can't exactly do anything about it untill this is resolved, but I don't want oppertunity to slip by either. I feel like I'm stuck in a pickle between two bases and I can't get to either one, I'm just running trying not to get tagged out. Last I talked to my wife she was hanging out in a bar with her friends and one of her friends was hitting on some random guy, it didn't really hit me in a good way to know that is where she was and that is what her friends were doing. What to do?

Soldier,

There is no opportunity! Believe me, I know. I was in the same mode as you and began "talking" to a woman while my wife had moved out. It never went too far, but was friendly enough that when I posted on here that I had been talking to someone, I was blasted by folks here (rightfully). They asked if my wife was stil lthere, would I be having that relationship, even as "innocent" as I thought it was? Of course, the answer was no. So, since I was still married to my wife, then having a relationship, whether emotional or physical (even to include flirting), is having an affair. There really is only a difference in degrees, but not in definition.

I thought that gal was a great gal (and in the back of my mind, I thought she might be a perfect woman to get to know after the divorce). But you see, that is the point! I was thinking about her. In a small way at the time, I knew that even thoug I was Plan Aing, in reality, there was some pull by this woman being there for me not to commit fully to my marriage and possible reconciliation.

It was almost like I wanted a guarantee that my wife was coming back for good before giving up this friendship with this woman. Read what I said in the last sentence again. Who does that sound like?

Well, of course...a wayward spouse!!!! And at that point, I crossed into being wayward myself. I was guilty as charged!

But I heeded what the folks told me and backed off. Later on, when things really went downhill, and we were in court going thru custody hearings, I kicked myself in the butt because I felt cheated in the fact the marriage was ending AND that gal was gone (it was two years later).

But, what I got to know was that first, there are plenty of women out there and plenty enough time to deal with all of that once I was divorced and had my stuff put back together.

But, there was only one chance to give my marriage a chance, if it had a chance. And it would take everything.

A marriage with one person running away and one person holding fast, has a chance (a pretty good one, actually!!).

A marriage with both spouses either running away or with one foot out the door, has almost no chance of succeeding.

Give yourself a chance to make a decision on your marriage. Once you make it, commit to that decision and get it done. If your marriage ends, then take 6 months to a year and dont date. Go back to college or something. Take that time to heal.

THEN start opening yourself up again. You will then be prepared to give someone else what they deserve.

Thank you for the advice and I will definatly keep it in mind. I have new news on my situation that confuses me. My wife supplied me with the access to her CELL log online and it proves her wrong about him calling her first and she did in fact call him without any provication to do so. The other mans wife told me in the IM's that her and my wife had, my wife said she just wanted to see if the situation was what she thought and that she was sticking with what she had. I feel like some kind of concelation prize or something. I don't know how to take this or how to react to this information. I don't understand how she could swear that he called her first on her CELL and then provide me access to the phone log to prove herself wrong. Why would she do it? I'm throughly confused and am lost. I am waiting for a response to my last e-mail to her and am curious as to what she is going to say. I'm thinking this marriage may be comming to some abrupt end and that she may never change. I will still make the effort to see a counselor with her and I would like the awnsers to a lot of questions. 9 years of lies and deciet, was any of it true? My head is spun and I can't make sence of it all, I hope things clear up and she starts telling me everything.

It sounds to me like she may want to save the marriage. You asked for the cell log and you got it. So that is good news.

I figured that she called him, and they often do that, just to make SURE there is no future with the affair partner.

So if that is true, you should expect her to go into withdrawal from the OM and that will clear her head.

You still don't have to make any quick decisions. See if she goes from some counseling.

And yes, it hurts to think that you are coming in second. Hopefully she will start working on her issues. All you can do is keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Well she said she was going to go to her counseling appointment tonight and that she is angry at the world. She has been putting on an act around everyone she knows trying to be the same old person she used to be, but the truth is she has been changed. I let her know that I am here and will not leave untill this is all figured out. In the end I still don't know how this will turn out. Being in Iraq has changed me quite a bit also. My mind set is more focused and I have picked up good habits that I had lost through my marriage. I found old parts of my self that had gone dormant and I don't expect to ever loose them again. I wonder if the way I have changed and the way my wife has changed will be compatable after all this. I will not make any hasty decisions and will see how things pan out, I just wish I could go home. I get my leave in May for two weeks and I wonder if we can make any progress at all. Well that is all from a throughly confused, hurt, and depressed soldier in Iraq for today.

Soldier,

I am so sorry for your situation. My FWH's A occurred while he was deployed. For me, one of the most difficult things was feeling as if I could do nothing while he was gone. It was not until he came home that we could start any kind of recovery or for me figure out whether I even wanted the M to recover.

Thoughts and prayers to you.

AM

Have you read all of the information here on dealing with infidelity? There are some good articles on the most popular links. I'm hoping that there will be no contact and she will go into withdrawal. And that should be over with by the time you are back on leave. So that will be much better, because when in withdrawal, they aren't too receptive to working on the marriage.

I'm happy that you are seeing some GOOD changes from being in Iraq. Those will last your whole life.

Take care, soldier.

Fcal,

Sorry to hear your in a rough patch. I'm sure you are more than ready to get home on leave, but keep your expectations low. Two weeks is such a short time.

I will apologize in advance for being some what negative, but...
Some things you mentioned earlier that set off red flags for me.

The phonecalls w/OM... Your former "friend" has a W he is now working with to mend his M. Your W does not have that same "supervision". Be suspicious of who would be likely to initiate contact.

The missed couseling... excuse for not going, or truth? Biggest problem I see with this. If she made up an excuse, she is still lying.

Hanging out at bars with her friends... It's my opinion, that anyone who is serious about salvaging their M, is not going to want to be in that environment with single friend(s).

Keep your head on swivel.

-JKT

Fcal, did wife finally do to her counseling session? Any new developments???

My wife did go to see the counselor and is checking into her insurance policy to see if she can get some financial assistance for it. The counselor says she has some grief issues because of the friends she has lost and some anger issues because of the friends that betrayed her by telling me what was going on. Honestly I don't think she has any right to be angry tward anyone except herself. You don't have friends keep secrets like that when both the people in the couple are their friend. I talked to her on the phone and she sounded cold and emotionless with a hint of anger. She said it was because she was at work and in the middle of working on something. I hope that is true, but I wont really find out untill I come home. That is my situation right now and there really dosn't seem to be anything new to tell.

Can't she go to Mental Health on-base for free? Military OneSource allows six visits for free also...no questions asked. Good Luck

Sounds like psychobabble to me...

A couple of questions I forgot to mention that I asked her while I was on the phone with her and was glad she awnsered truthfully. I asked if she thought we could work out this issue when I got home and she said that she would like to think so. Then I asked if she wanted to work out this issue and she said she didn't know. I know her awnser wasn't positive like I might have wanted to hear, but at least I know she is being honest with me for once. I don't care what her awnsers are anymore as long as they are honest, that is all I want right now, truth. I would say with those awnsers she has made progress, mabey not in our marriage, but at least on herself.

I sent my wife a dress I had bought her a while ago from here in Iraq for valentine's day. I have talked to her on the phone and in e-mails pretty steadly and she seems to be truly sorry for what she has done and is expressing that she really does miss me and cares about me. This is the most emotion I have seen from her in quite some time. All the other e-mails and phone calls she always seemed angry or cold and uncareing untill recently. I don't know weather she got a wake up call and realizes what she had or if she has just gotten better at acting. For now it feels better for me to think she actually cares about me so I'll run with that. The dress I got her was supposed to originaly be for Christimas and I have had it all this time. I figured valentine's day was a good reason to finally send it and with her positive tone it was easier to do. I wish I could be home to interact with her in person to really get to see what the body language and everything is like to get a better sence of weather or not she is acting. I havn't given up even though things are still horribly dammaged. We have a lot of counseling to go to before I can come to any solid decision and I can't make any decision untill I feel solid about it. The counselor I have her going to is one I trust and yes I've been to counseling before. I don't think the military will cover my counselor, but she is verry good and I am extreamly happy with her results. I can't just throw away nine years of my life with out being sure if it is really unsalvagable or if it is salvagable. I have so many good memories with her and I need to know how much of it was true. I am too far away to see the light at the end of the tunnel but I know if I keep moving forward I will find it weather I stand in that light alone or with her is a different story. This is my situation up to today.

I do hope she is genuine soldier I really do.

I'm a army wife and have been one since I was 18.. and yet I still nearly destroyed everything with an affair. But even though a wife may fail their H and cause immense pain we can and do many times seek redemption and forgiveness and will do whatever it takes to show our H's we repented and want our M.
Its an awfully big decision for a soldier who should expect loyalty to forgive such actions. It strikes at their very being I think. But it happens. It did to me.

My DD is a new army wife and read a post on your thread where the discussion was "was your ww able to be a mil wife" or words to that effect. made her think.... she got together with some other young wives and they listed what they thought.
I'm not sure anyone could do all that they had listed all the time. Certainly got high expectations of themselves ..... and maybe that's good.

be interesting to see what your ww thinks on these things too... what does she feel about being a mil wife... what expectations are there .... what are the HARD bits that perhaps led her to stray???? because these days its really likely to spend more time away then together. And its hard.

It was interesting to note DD's own realisation that she was doing a few things not helpful for a mil marriage ... very interesting.

I do think you are wise to not make hasty decisions based on emotions... you indeed may be able to recover your M or build a new one with your w in the future. just remember a short leave wont do much in that area.... but you may be able to see if there is a glimmer of hope in her actions. don't expect too much.

all the best soldier

Thank you aussieswife, thank you for your hope in my marriage. The military has been hard on me even though I am a reserve soldier and as you may know the reserves are changing. We are no longer one weekend a month two weeks a year and as far as my unit there is no reason to miss a drill or not show up for orders. Becaus of the demand of the reserves I have missed out on so many family events and even anaversaries with my wife. I was wondering since you have some experiance with this type of situation from the other side of the fence, is there any thing I should be looking for or any questions I should ask her to see how sincere she is about working this out? I hope your daughter has what it takes to be an Army wife, the men who are married are lifted up or broken by them. Currently I have been broken, but I am strong and have started putting the peices of my heart back together again. I just don't know weather I should put the pieces with her back together or if I'm going to have to grow new pieces to move on. I would like to have her in my life, but not if she dosn't really want me the same way. I am a head strong person who sets my sights on something and goes after it with everything I have and am not used to uncertainty. When things are out of my controll and the out come lies in someone elses hands it's frustrating and at this time heart wrenching. I want to believe my wife's intentions and want to think she has seen her errors, wanting to never again make them, but I also want her to be happy with me and wonder why did she do it in the first place. If she is not going to be happy with me and just feels it's her duty to stay with me I don't want that type of marriage. I want a marriage where we are together because we are in love every day and can't immagine life with out the other. I've been told my ideas on marriage are fairy tale like, but I believe fairy tales can come true. I want my Cinderella and my happily ever after, to grow old and have children and watch them do the same. Well before I go on and on and on I'll call it a day for now and wait to see what responses this gets. I wish your daughter luck and strength. Tell her when thigs are tough, to think of the qualities and things she fell in love with and she will see them. She married this man for a reason and she should never forget that because those reasons never die they just get forgotten if your not careful.

I hope you won't give up your ideas on marriage. You deserve a fairy tale, forever marriage. And there are many women that are looking for the same thing. That doesn't mean that it will be easy, or there will be no problems, but that you stick together as a team.

I live in a military town, and there are many wonderful wives that endure long separations from their husbands. There are also some who use the time apart to have affairs.

Believer said some wise words Soldier.

You may or may not recover your M to your current ww.... BUT your desire to have a romantic fairy tale marriage is a great thing to have as your outcome.
there are MANY women who would crawl over broken glass to find a loyal dedicated man to marry who will commit to the whole 'fairy tale'.

But that's for the future not right now!!!

work on being mission focused where you are... departmentalise the home front from the mission front in your head. Look at the box marked home when its SAFE to do so ... not out on the job ... we all want to see you safely home soldier. understand ,, its a mothers order... you can appeal the orders in writing... triplicate copies marked urgent ... someone will find them in 2 or 3 years and ignore them

When it is SAFE and you want to think about the home box have you had thoughts about what you expect from your W? I wonder if she even knows herself really. Fidelity must be on the list of course ... but what else do you want to see???

hers my DD's & her fellow wives/partners list... don't expect too much after all they are all between 19 and 22 ... but I think they want their own fairy tale too... not a bad target to obtain.
Its ok she said I could post it.


The average age here of a military wife is 21, get us together at a party and that's about our collective IQ after drinking for a while. You have to be aware of temptations and the places you go.

She is old enough to manage a household on her own, usually on a very tight budget and maybe a kid or two as well, a lot have to live with parents or share rent while other couples their age have houses and 2 cars, you have to make do & what's more be happy about it.

Like me she probably never saw herself loving a man who is in the military, it challenges her every day its changes her dreams and her world and she has to throw her whole being into it.

Her typing skills on the keyboard have improved in the last few weeks/months due to the excessive writing she has been doing, we write lots and with the Regiment we have no where to send them too, so we wait and wait and write more.

She cries a lot because she misses the man she swore to love but out of sight where no one can see her, she can't disgrace her man

Her life is not complete without him and never will be, there's a big void inside of her so you get on with life but its not the same

She looks very tired because of her many late nights without sleep due to a late night phone call that never came or a call that did and kept her up all night just because she heard his voice

As a wife she is classified as a dependent but she is totally independent and she wonders who really cares when she struggles

She tends to her home, her kids, her studies and her job all without her husband

She wears a smile for him she never cries around him over the deployment. you smile and whisper your love and wave when he goes, fall apart when he's out of sight.

She has to be strong enough to sit and listen and doesn't dare cry when her H talks about his will and hands them all to you, you're now his executor.

She understands that he can be taken away from her in a moments notice and fears it every day, because it happens.

Beyond the fear she feels a sense of intense pride in her man. He really IS her hero.

She has to encourage and support ALWAYS even when it hurts to do so.

She has to be ready to accept moments of her H attention, no 15 hours a week here mister.

she has to accept that not all her needs will be met except occasionally by her H, he's not there

AND she has to be determined enough to ensure no one else is allowed to do that EVER NEVER

she will make mistakes and fail at things, accept it she is not perfect

Boundaries, she must have iron clad reinforced boundaries, NO DATES, do NOTHING that she would not do when her H is by her side.

And loneliness, times are you want to scream, go out party do something to just be around others, Its so easy to fail The attention is addictive and you really need to keep your wits about you, keep family and friends strong enough & willing to slap sense into you around you.

If you want to be treated like a ho, you will be and its all your choice

you should only drink socially in a safe environment, like with family and marriage supporting friends

There are times when for weeks and months sometimes nearly a year will pass and she will know little about where her man is, its classified. It eats at her and sometimes she thinks its easier to leave than fight for the little she has. Until the next call and she waits all over again.

she remembers everything about him, all the scars, the way he smells, the expressions, the way he walks, even the snoring, and when the nightmares wake you up you shake them off and dream of him coming home.

Its what they feel you need to have and be prepared for to be a mil wife....

you probably have heaps to add as well.

look after yourself and stay safe

AW.

I realize that I may not be able to have the marriage I want with my current wife and this may not work out. I am prepared as much as can be for the case where we just can't work our marriage out. I read your daughters list and there are some pretty good things on it, but as far as I'm concerned crying in front of a soldier is ok, it just shows how much you care. Life is hard and fairytales don't come cheap, it takes a lot of work and effort and I believe it is worth it. I am focusd on my missions while I'm out here and as long as I'm kept busy I have no problem. When my job is done and I have some down time is when my mind wonders home and I think of my wife and everything that has happened along with all the work needed to get through this. I am good at what I do out here and this is not interfearing with my responsibilities on my missions. The soldiers working with me can rely on me to be focused and watch their back. I will stay alert and alive and then when I get home I will have a new mission. I havn't been trained on anything like this and I don't know if it will be a success or a failure, but I do know there will be no fatalities and I will be rolling along, I am a soldier.

Well I had a good and honest conversation with my wife and I could tell by the tone in her voice she was truthful. I expressed to her my doubts in her being able to change and my hopes that she could. She told me she didn't know if she could or not, but she wanted to try. We both want to work this out and are both having our doubts. Just so you can get a clear idea of how our conversations go here is the e-mail she sent after I talked to her last.

"In spite of everything that's happened between us (entirely my fault) I still love you. I don't think that will ever stop. Whether or not we end up working out is up in the air and in God's hands at this point. All we can do is take it one day at a time and hope for the best. I do miss you... a LOT. Sometimes I wish you'd never joined the Army... but I know it was the best thing to do for you, for us. Now I'm not even sure there will be an "us" when you get back. I want us to work... I just don't know if we can. Trust issues... my own guilt over hurting you like this and not knowing why I did it in the first place... not knowing if I could ever truly trust myself again."

I want us to work and to me these words rang true. I hope she can change to be the woman I married again and that we can both get past this. I know life will never be the same, but I hope we can still have a happy life together.