It was July of 2007 when I decided to partially confess to my affairs. My life was falling apart-I was forced to retire from a job I thought I loved, had a harrassment lawsuit against me,had been in muiltiple long term affairs-some of which I carried on at the same time. I have since learned just how angry,abusive,frightened and
lonely a guy I was who nearly (completely) self destructed at the age 53. I was dishonest,lacked integrity and was spinning out of control.Nearly two years ago, I told my wife of over 30 years of my of my disgusting behaviors over a 30 day period-it took me that long as there were so many-as many as 8-12women-and it was for such a long period of time-nearly 12 years. Had I been stronger, I would have told her all at once-but I couldn't;my affairs involved friends from the neighborhood,woman from work and some she did not know. My unraveling as a human being truly began when I started down the adultrous path over a dozen years ago-but it was not until I lost my job(what I thought was my true identity) that I realized how out of contol and selfish a human being I was.
I lived in a world of false perceptions-meaning I thought I was something I was not. I thought I was funny and entertaining and good company and could dole out good advise--I thought I was a good husband ---I thought I was a good father--in reality I was none of the above; I was a man in the express lane of disaster. Over the years my wife pleaded with me to talk, to go to counselling, to share--I half heartily participated--constantly lying to her,to the therapist as well as myself.
You see it was my weak ego that constantly needed massaging. I needed so badly to be liked and admired and to feel special. And when our children came along-my ego went into another hemosphere-still craving her constant acknowlegment but unwilling to share and be loving and giving and selfless....
This was the time that things at home really began to change. My insatiable ego wanted more and more. I did not understand sharing,helping, giving and doing.-Sure I helped with the children at night and in the middle of the night but I was not giving my spouse ant type of love in return. So what happened? She began to react to my "absence" with angry outbursts,disrespectful judgements and verbal abuses-exactly what my frail ego didn't need or want. I incorrectly believed that I had become the victim-the "poor me guy"-unloved and misundestood. I needed to be appreciated,understood-I needed to feel special. I gave nothing!I withdrew and even felt justified in what I was doing.

HOW WRONG I WAS!!

I now know how wrong I lived my life. I lived my life topsy turvey. I now know how cruel I was and how cruel I could be. I realize how I took advantage of my wife,her spirit, her goodness,her youth. I am now a man filled with remorse, shame and embarrassment. These realizations did not just happen.It has been a process that has occurred over the last two years; about 6 months prior to me loosing my job. I had a "Mr.Scrooge" awakening which occured when my father passed away . I started to see how meaningless my life was, how I failed to have proper boundaries in my life,how shallow I really was and how little importance there was in friends, the crowd,and in adulation...... I began(ever too slowly)to see my many,many shortcomings...my anger,selfishness,my abusiveness as a husband and father,my misguided obessions with work and moving up the ladder....and ALL my terrible, negative relationship habits I learned and practised for so many years.
I want my wife back; She has not thrown me out yet, but she has made it clear she wants a completely new me. She's right and should demand no less. After 8 months of feeling bad for me I finally began to work on the man she wants(its been a year), the man she always wanted and deserves. Now my issues are that I make so many "mess ups " along the way.My need for change is severe and bountiful-but change for me is difficult as I must learn to be kind,caring and loving -placing my spouses' needs first. -Her angry outburst ,the judgements of each and every shortcoming I have followed by verbalizations of just what a looser I am has become relentless. In my heart I can feel and understand (at least)some of her pain-afterall, I caused it. I know if I could just once meet her needs -maybe, just maybe she might start to believe that I am working to rid myself of the disgusting man I once was forever! I am now seeking some guidance and advise .My wife is very bright, beautiful,engaging and protective.She is honest,caring loving and is the model of integrity-she is a wonderful mother as well.... I love her very much and words can not adequately decribe how sorry I am. I present this to you with humility and appreciation.

Does she want to stay married to you in a marriage that is based on romantic love? Does she want you to fall in love with her? If she wants that, she should stop the lovebusters.

Does she think she can overcome the resentment of what you have done to her? If so, it would help if you would send her here so we can help her. What she is doing is pushing you away and making it impossible to recover this marriage.

What will make this work is if you BOTH learn to meet each others needs and avoid lovebusters. A very important element of all this is that you have STRICT BOUNDARIES in your life, ie: no female friends, no alone time with females, no leisure activity without your wife, complete transparency with cell phones, computer, etc. It is the ability to live a secret second life that enabled your affairs, so that would need be eliminated.


Meeting her needs FIRST is not the answer. Meeting her needs WITHOUT SACRIFICE is the answer. Sacrifice leads to resentment.

rf, some books I would strongly recommend would be:

1. Surviving an Affair
2. His Needs, Her Needs
3. Fall in Love, Stay in Love

And please send her here! Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Thank you for your response; my spouse has been quite active on this board and has shared with me that she is very fimilar with you via this format. She is known as Sunflower; I guess you know she is very expressive,writes beautifully and has been hurt deeply by me. You are correct-she remains undecided as where she is with me. We have purchased the entire Harley series of books and are in the process of reading each of them together.

rfw,

I'm Schoolbus, and I've posted many times to Sunflower. I call her S-55.

She is working hard to find forgiveness for you. She wants that for herself, because the anger is something that haunts her as much as it hurts you. Mr. G is working with her on pointing out her AOs and DJs. You are right about that, and I've also told her that she has become too focused there. I asked her if she could take a break, a vacation, or even maybe separate for a bit.

Until I read your post, I wasn't sure what your thoughts were on your own behavior, or what you were wanting to do in terms of your WORK in the recovery department.

Here's the truth - there is actually a research article out there that talks about the recovery of marriages after affairs, and says that the 6 month mark after d-day is critical, in terms of how the betrayed wife feels. If she feels that she has had to do all the work in recovering the marriage at that point, the divorce rate goes through the roof.

The other truth is that at about the 6 month mark after d-day, the BS gets to the anger phase. They have settled down, and figured out their plan for recovery, and then they have had time to reflect on exactly what it is that the WS has really done to them. They have focused prior to that on regaining their own balance, getting the WS on board for recovery, and getting the marriage through the initial shock, that true reflection on the depth of what has happened doesn't settle in until around 6 months post d-day.

Your wife has had a lot to sift through. Her anger is not a big surprise at this point in recovery.

You are looking at a recovery period of over two years, probably longer, because your infidelities were multiple and the lies were so deep.

S-55 is struggling with the decision of whether or not to stay in the marriage at all, and that's a very good question.

Yet, I see sincerity in your post. You actually do see that what you have done is place a nuclear bomb into the life of your wife. And you are asking the right questions - the problem for you is whether or not you can begin to focus your changes in the right areas, fast enough, and show S-55 through your consistent behavior that those changes are real and for life.

You two need to sit down together and do your list for extraordinary precautions, to make her feel safe at all times with your behavior. She needs to know that YOU have a plan, and that SHE DIDN'T have to force you or tell you to do it. Write it out, get others here to critique it, and then sit down with her with the commitment to follow through. The only way you can show her is to take immediate action, without excuses, and behave the way a MAN of HONOR acts. And act that way when nobody is looking or checking up on you, too.

You also need to actively do things that will meet her emotional needs every single day. Ask her for a copy of her list, and look at the top three. Then, ask her what things you can actively do to meet them. For example, if her need is conversation, you might ask her what things she would like to talk about - if you have to, read an article on one of the topics and take it to her and talk about it with her! That is an ACTIVE way to meet her needs. Another example, if her need is domestics, then do not wait for her to ask you for help with the chores - just get up tomorrow morning and vacuum the floor or do the dishes, or do that fix-it job she has been needing. Look at her list, and FILL THE NEEDS. And do not stop filling the needs, not until you die, because this is the thing that makes her love you - and makes your marriage work.

Ask her what you do that she considers to be DJ or AO - and work to stop doing them. When she points it out, look at your behavior and accept that what she sees may not be what you meant, but look at it and if it is inappropriate or making her uncomfortable - STOP IT.

And hey - I am very proud and happy that you decided to come on board. This is going to meet one of her ENs right away. She needed you to WORK on the recovery - and this shows that you are finally taking the active role in figuring out what went wrong in your head to make you do this. She wanted that, she wanted to see you initiate something. This will help her.

SB

RFW,

It is so good to see you here. I, too, have been posting to sunflower, and as another betrayed wife, hearing her dying inside has been hard for me to take. I understand how she is undone by fear and heartache.

Someone said that your posting here will do her good. I agree. It is a proactive step that YOU are taking to heal her damaged heart. It will do YOU good too. Be forewarned that it will take a LOT of time and HONESTY on your part. Think of sunflower as having been in a horrific car wreck, more dead than alive now. She's been on life support for a long time, and is very fragile. The reconstructive surgery she will need is extensive, and YOU are the surgeon.

Be gentle.

If you can swing it, call the MB counseling center. The coaches there have forgotten more than you and I will ever know about how to heal marriages annihilated by adultery.

The MB program (counseling with Steve Harley at the MB center, the MB weekend and follow-up course work, and reading/posting here) has pulled my marriage off the slag heap. My H and I are more in love than we've been through most of our nearly 40-year marriage. If dogs as old as we are can learn new tricks, surely you can too.

Go for it.

Right Here Waiting

RHW:

Thank you for your kind and reassuring words.You are correct someone had suggested to Sunflower that I become involve in this aspect of MB-so I did.As everything else along this journey writing from the heart and then pushing the send button was difficult but worth it-even if only one or two respond to me-I am grateful. I want you to know that I do think that way-that my Sunflower was in a terrible accident and that I now stay at her bedside,praying and working to do whatever I must do to nurse her back to complete recovery and beyond. For you see not only am I her nurse but I WAS ALSO THE DRIVER OF THE CAR WHO WALKED AWAY FROM THAT ACCIDENT WHILE SHE HAD TO REMOVED FROM THE CAR BY THE 'JAWS OF LIFE'.PLEASE NOTE: we are also planning to attend a weekend, hopefully in mid-March.Again thank you for kind and thoughtful response...Remorseful For What I Have Done.

rfw,

You are on a good path. Maybe the only path that leads to a good place for both of you.

I just posted about patience to sunflower. The best thing I can offer you is to follow this path with patience, not the feeling--the practice of it.

Everyone here is cheering you on. One step at a time. As they say around here, "It's not a sprint...it's a marathon."

Keep the faith.

Right Here Waiting

RHW: excuse me-I am so confused. I replied to you on Sunfower's computer and board. //////I hope you knew it was me. Regarding your last response-I told Sunflower I am here for the longrun; I will go only if she insists. I am going to show her that miracles still can happen.Practice,patience & faith. I will not give up. Again thanks so much!!

Hello Schoolbus and thank you as well for your thoughtful response. Thoughtfulness; I now recognize how important thoughtfulness is. Many of my "mess-ups" occur as a result of very bad habits or thoughtless acts that I developed over alot of years.For instance,I suffer from a sleep problem (falling asleep at inappropriate times). I promised to take signifcant action when a sleep attack occurs(this IS a love buster)-ie., I promised to stand up,take a walk or excuse myself and take a 20 minute nap-instead of following through on my promise- I try and fight off the sleepiness-so as not to miss anything or have Sunflower think she is not important. And then bum-I nod off for just a second-Sunflower sees it and then I am a liar,not able to keep my promise etc,etc. Bad habits/thoughtless--- bad habits-things that I MUST break once and for all.I do like your suggestions of sitting down and working out our lists-hopefully it an idea that Sunflower and I can go over and possibly develop tonight. Clearly, it is the doing and not just the saying that in the end that will make the difference.
And so, I remain committed to do whatever it takes to be successful. Please continue to provide suggestions and ideas so that everyday I can read and digest each and everyone of them. Hopefully, I will learn and remember and do things properly so that my original partner IN life remains my partner For life. With dep appreciation. Remorseful For What I Have Done #1.

Oh, it was so clearly your voice that it didn't confuse me at all.

About the nodding off...have you ever wondered what makes you so tired? We often assume it's a passive-aggressive/avoidance thing, and maybe it is, but what if it's physical? A touch of narcolepsy, even? I had a friend like that once. Drove his wife crazy till he was diagnosed. Why not get a complete physical, and mention the nodding off to the doctor.

Just a thought.

rightherewaiting: thanks for the response. I have been and continue to be treated for this sleeping problem. In fact in March I will be seeing a physician who will determine (hopefully)if it my diet that is helping to cause this very frustrating problem. Thanks again.

Good morning Schoolbus-I am returning to your board as I do need your advise. I like your suggestions in moving forward-but I am finding that getting to water is one thing and drinking it is another. For instance, conversation IS very important-in fact the most important need for sunflower. I do write down things I think she would like to talk about during our uninterrupted time in the evening. However,she complains my topics are not correct or boring or unfufilling-and she feels strongly that I must come up the topics to discuss not her. Do you have a suggestion as to how I could re-approach this topic so that I can draw from her topics of interest and then hopefully discuss them in a way that reassures her of my interest. I really need to break through this impass. Further, I would also appreciate some elaboration on your suggestion on "extraordinary precautions"-I want to approach this topic in the right spirit as well. Look forward to hearing back from you-and thanks!

rfw,

Good to see you're getting medical advice. And that you also have an MB weekend planned.

I know you addressed schoolbus for help on the question of conversation, and I'm sure she will offer good tips. My FWH and I had trouble with this one too, so I hope you don't mind if I offer something that helped us.

I would read him a passage from a book that contained an idea that was interesting to me. If it didn't engage him, I would read a bit further into it, moving on to other passages I'd marked earlier. I'd ask him, "Do you agree with that?" He usually didn't, but it would spark a conversation, which would lead us off on tangents. Before we knew it, we'd spent an hour or two talking, ending far away from the original topic, but I didn't care. We were talking, and sharing our thoughts, opinions and occasionally, even feelings.

You might want to read posts on the forum that addresses specific EN's. There's one on conversation. Might be something good there...

ETA: Whoops! Just went to check and discovered that the Conversation forum is available only to couples who've done the MB weekend. It will soon be available to you!

Right Here Waiting

rhw: thanks for the suggestion; I will try it tonight.-May I discuss yet another issue ? I just made a couple of love busters that has sunflower very upset which of course now has me very upset. It began last night -we were looking through family pictures with our daughter-I felt a myself becoming sleepy during this period-so, the deal is I get up, excuse myself, and take a quick nap; I asked sunflower to kindly wake me in 15 minutes. The problem is I didn't wake up when she tried to wake me. Now she upset because I asked her to be my alarm clock AND I didn't care enough to wake up.---We start the day with her being upset with me.......Love Buster 2:
My daughter is in a school play today. I took off from work so I could attend. I went to this play knowing one of the OW I had been involved with would probably be there. In my mind,I went over the list of extraordinary precautions that I would ensure as we walked into the school together.......stay next to my spouse,hold her hand,no eye contact, no discussions....her needs first. Fortunately, there was no contact with OW at all. After the play,Sunflower and I were talking with one of the mothers; the mother mentioned that her camera was not working properly -and here's where the mess up came-she handed me the camera and I TRIED TO FIX IT.--Upon walking to the car shortly there after, SF went off on me-I violated an extraordinary precaution by trying to fix the camera of another woman....Jennifer our MB counselor(Dr. Harley's daughter)cautioned me about extraordinary precautions...Schoolbus brought up in one of her responses to me. The AO began and when I tried to respond....well,it became futile and exhausting. I really didn't mean to cross any barriers-I felt terrible -but I did it-...Any suggestions? I need to turn this around. Thanks.

Until YOU put your list of EP's in writing this area will cause you both grief.

Dr. Chalmers (Jennifer) is right in the fact that EP's are needed, and the ACTION of doing them is critical. She cannot MAKE you do this. You must WANT to do this.

Have you begun putting them together?

Were you explaining WHY you did what you did? Were you justifying what you did? Did you have excuses that it was the lady with the camera that caused this?
OR
Did you sit and listen without trying to justify? Did you apologize quickly and say that you have no excuse for what you did? Did you thank your wife for telling you/reminding you of the boundary?

What becomes futile and exhausting is when we try to justify crossing a boundary.

When we want our S to understand us and our action rather than us trying to understand what our S is actually saying. That really does become futile. Also triggers your wife into the mode of "this is just more of the same, you have NOT changed"!

The reality is, you have NO rational explaination for what you did. Acknowledge THAT and you will usually find it easier to move forward with an apology. And she will be much less likely to trigger.

tst: thank you for response. Your answer was presented to me in a way that it was like you were there listening to me mishandle my conversation with my wife right after I mishandled the camera situation with the other mom.I must break all my terrible habits and the EP's will help me get there.Yes, I went over EP's with Jennifer and with my wife and earlier this morning- my wife and I made a list of EP's that I will follow; I will place them on an index card and will keep with me for the forseesble future.-Thank you for response,your insight and your honesty-it is really appreciated.

How about posting your EP's here. Sometimes it helps to get others perspectives on these things as well.


BTW, when did you start coaching with Dr. Chalmers?

tst: started with jennifer about a month ago;have had two sessions thus far.

Regarding my EP's----Here's my list thus far:


(1) No caring for someone of the opposite gender-even if I have to be rude. No speaking,no eye contact, let my wife place the order in a restaurant if waited on by a waitress.No "hello's or how are you? etc. No affection, no admiration.....

(2)Ignore all female contact except when I am with my wife.
(3)Always put my wife's feelings first.

(4)Do not allow anyone else to care for my needs.

(5)Absolute no contact with any woman I had been involved with previously-stricted barriers.


That's my list thus far....I look forward to the any feedback that anyone may be willing to share.

I'm posting a copy of my own EP's to see if you can use them to help you expand on your's a little more.

This is a very critical process..... for healing and for the protection of you wife.