Amazing how things that we (as BS) wouldn't have batted an eyelash at before an A can hurl us into a tailspin, isn't it? I have been through similar scenarios several times myself since D-day.

Only advice I can give is to confront him and give the same arguments that you just voiced in your reply. Most likely, he will stick to his story, but try to do your homework before addressing the issue. Google "signs of lying" Do you know him well? Can you discern when he is lying? Do you have a "gut" feeling about the situation? Be sure to confront him in person if at all possible.

It is understandable (and wise) to immediately question something that is atypical for him, given what you have been through. Again...been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. Trying to find the balance between being understanding and denial is a difficult task to undertake-I wish you well and pray for wisdom for you.

lmm thanks for your words of wisdom. But now i feel really bad about the whole thing because it was a DJ. But like you said it is a hard thing to try to find the balance between being understanding and denial. I DO however feel i know him well enough to know if he is lying, i knew all during the A.

I do not know if i have stated this in my thread but i have posted it on other threads, my H is EXTREMELY technologically challenged. He is not good with phones, the remote (besides how to change the channels :RollieEyes: ), the TV, the DVD player, the computer, i mean none of them.

So he dropped his phone yesterday morning and it came apart, he put it back together and went on about his business. As he was getting ready to leave the office, one of the guys he works with noticed it was not together all the way. He had actually put the battery in wrong and that is why is did not close all the way and why it was not working.

But because it triggered me back to the A, i let it snow all day yesterday (thanks TJD). But then Mr SC melted it all away when i got home instead of making it bigger so that was wonderful . He was the one that brought it up and eveything, he said me not answering my phone today was a trigger for you wasn't it and i told him yes. Then he said some really mushy stuff that makes me think that he has FINALLY "heard" me.

And i told him so also, i thanked him for being so understanding about the whole situation and we had a lovely evening.

I'm impressed with how you two worked through this. Congrats.

This is another data point that your H's intentions are to be with you and to not make you unhappy.

You might want to think about how you will handle the times when he isn't as in tune with you and doesn't realize this was a trigger for you and that you hurt?

So, instead of him bringing up the issue you need to bring up the issue and communicate to him with no DJ's. If you DJ him, he will most likely become defensive and it will escalate.

You are correct of course. Thankfully this time it did not but i do need to communicate to him when i have a trigger.

I just always worry that he will think that i am NEVER going to quit having triggers.

But like you said if i use DJs against him it makes things worse so i would be better off to just tell him to begin with.

My goodness sometimes things that seem so easy are difficult to put into practice !!!

If you keep working together like this and keep making progress there comes a time when the issues from the A go away.

These are then replaced by the issues of the marriage. Great huh?

You are practicing to care for each other and that is always a good thing.

You are correct again. If things keep going the way they are now then June 1 will just be another day and that is what i truly want.

SC,

I told you that your plan was falling apart. I'm glad it appears that I may be right! Congrats!



Want2Stay

You did at that W2S!!!!

I too am glad that it appears to be falling apart darn it!!!!



I also am that it stays that way, which means i need to do my part too!!!!

This crap is so hard sometimes. So like I said last week things have been going good, my H is trying really hard to make me feel cared for.

So I had the issue about his phone last week and we handled that well. And there still has been no over “friendliness” when we have been going out. And we both have been feeling good about things (at least I am assuming he is because he never tells me if anything is bothering him).

So we had a couple of things this weekend that really bothered me. I sometimes think that I just look for things but I just am afraid that I will never feel safe in my marriage again.

I have issues with “confidence” over my physical appearance when it comes to my H. Not with anyone else (for one because I do not care what anyone else thinks about my physical appearance except my H and myself) but when it comes to my H because of all the things said to me in our marriage I do not think my H finds me “sexy”. I do not think he finds me ugly but I also do not think he finds me “hot”. And I think everyone wants their spouse to think they are the “sexiest person on the planet” (I think of him that way).

So first was all of the sudden he had to work on Saturday morning, he did not find out about this until Friday afternoon and he is taking comp time instead of overtime. So there will be no way for me to check if he really went to work.

The next thing was my DD and I went to the store and was only gone for a little while, when we got back my H had rented a movie. My DD and I asked him what it was and he told us the name of it and that it was a horror flick (which is his favorite). Well it seem more like a porno movie than a horror flick so my DD went to the info to see what it said about the movie. The first words on the info section was “four beautiful co-eds…..”.

I looked at the info for all the movies available to rent and there were SEVERAL horror flicks that SOUNDED way better than the description of this one, just the description you knew that it would be a “B” movie at best. Well this bothered me (even though I am sure that it should not have) I mean my goodness gracious how can I stop the man from watching TV for goodness sakes I mean that is all that is on TV all the time is “beautiful co-eds” But somehow I just felt like he picked this movie specifically because it had “four beautiful co-eds” I mean really if you could have seen the movie it was HORRIBLE but of course he continued to watch it because the “four beautiful co-eds” were naked throughout most of the movie.

Then Saturday evening we went out for a little while, when we were at one of the places we stopped he asked me if I worried about him “working” that morning. I told him that it was a little odd because they were making a lot of cutbacks at his place of employment but whatever. Then he wanted to know if I thought anything else was going on and I told him I did not know but that I am to the point now where I expect it to happen so I am not letting it bother me as bad. Well of course he had a simple response like well you are right there is no point worrying about things you have no control over. And he discussed the FOW as well.

So now I do not know if he was trying to make me feel better and wondered if I triggered over him having to work on Saturday out of the blue or if I should be worrying about something. But it has made me withdraw again.

So here I sit wondering if I am (like I said earlier) just looking for things or if there is something there. I just hate this stuff darn it!!!!

Well he did show me a paper last night that showed the hours he worked on Saturday and i think that he just brought up the conversation that evening because he wants me to feel safe and he still doesn't understand how he let it happen (or so he says).

So i think maybe i am just being too hard on him and i need to ease up some. I need to BELIEVE that he loves me as much as he says he does.

It is just hard after an affair to think everything is ok. I mean it seemed to happen so easily and it seemed to end so easily that it just throws your whole belief system out of whack and i think that is what my problem is now.

I never believed that my H would cheat on me and now that he did it makes it hard to think that he won't do it again because i now know he is capable of it, i would have never thought that before.

I know i have said this on my own thread and i just read it on another thread and i so believe it is true.

JK was talking about how Dr Harley says we are all "wired" to have an A. She said she does not believe that and neither do i, i think we all have the capability to have an A but some of us just "never" would.

I truly believe that WSs all have a little bit of selfishness in them and that is how they can have an A. That is how they can justify hurting the person they supposedly love.

I know my H has a lot of selfish tendencies. I do not, i am not selfish about anything that i can think of (except my H of course, i don't like to share when it comes to him).

Don't ignore your feelings. They are telling you something important. In this case I believe they are telling you that your H needs to rebuild your trust.

See the data points for what they really are.



He needs to talk to you about the reasons for the A. You both need to understand the EP's.

You also need to tell him about the movie. He is being tempted and he is giving into his temptation. Maybe you can ask how he would feel about using the POJA the next time you pick a movie? That way you both can be enthusiastic about it.

Well, I hesitate to comment on this. It brings out so many different comments and beliefs from folks.

When it comes to you I have this to say. My W is very similar to you. Probably the least selfish person I know. I know of no one who would say otherwise. In fact, most would likely say I am the selfish one. I am much more likely to have IB.

But, now, after everything I and we have gone through, I recognize the inherent risks in sacrifice.

Well i agree with you that he needs to rebuild my trust. And i also think that i am not sure that any of his actions (until of late) have done that.




I have conceded that he will NEVER talk to me about the reasons of the A. He just won't and every time we come close (and he is the one who brings it up not me like this past weekend), he will just say that is behind us let's quit talking about it. But i think if he brings it up it must still bother him in some way. I don't know if it is because of the hurt he caused or what it is, but i feel it is something.

Right now we have been listening to Nickelback a lot because we are going to their concert soon and there is one particular song in the chorus that says "I'll fight for you" and every single time we are together and we here that song he says, you fought for me. It is all just strange.


I did talk to him about the movie after the fact, but this was not a POJA moment. He rented the movie while me and my DD were gone, i think he thought we would be gone longer than we were so it was not very far into the movie when her and i got back home and we both said something to him about the choice. And the fact that he should have known by the info for the movie that it was a cheap budget movie.

And maybe this is how he is filling his need for admiration since he is not being "friendly" in my presence anyway. Like i said before i feel he has an EXTREMELY over exaggerated need for admiration. I mean he asks me on a daily basis if he is looking good still or if he is fat or if his muscles look fine (several times a day even). It is more like a woman than a man.

Well you shot my theory down .

I do not know i just know that i have basically no IB, if i am not at work, i am at home or with my H. I do not do anything outside of work that does not involve my H.

Not that he does either but his job allows IB, he is out on his own all day long just driving around to different locations. He could very easily do whatever during the day (not all days but some days he is just killing time and he has told me so).

And i do know that my sacrifices builds resentment in my marriage and i should not sacrifice. That is easier said than done sometimes though, but i am working on trying not to sacrifice (and i am improving in that area).

I never conceded this. And I don't understand how you can concede it. It is critical to do 2 things. Establish EP's and then never bring it up again.

I have always felt that the WS tend to bury this and just move on and not deal with it as it is painful. I also have felt that the BS tends to want to bring it up and rehash it and want to dwell on it. Both positions make sense.

You can't just bury this and you can't rehash it all the time.

You fought for him. He feels guilty. Now you are asking him to fight for you or you will leave on June 1.

Makes sense to me. Love in marriage is not unconditional. You don't stay if you are treated poorly. It is not about commitment to stay in the marriage. It is about being committed to extraordinary care for each other despite the positions you find yourself in.

It is what he did when you were dating.


I think he should have used the POJA or have done nothing. This is a good habit that the two of you need to develop.

If he would have said, SC, how would you feel about this movie, you could have provided him input. You both could have agreed enthusiastically. The IB would have been addressed and your feelings would have been considered and he wouldn't feel controlled as he would have enthusiastically agreed to the movie selection as well. It would have been good for both of you.


Kind of like his feeling that you over exaggerated his flirting?

While i agree that i think it is necessary, i have tried and tried and tried for the last two years and i get the same response which is i was drunk most of the time and do not remember a lot of it and it doesn't matter anyway.

I asked him if he told her he loved her and he said he did not remember but then later when i asked him another time he said i think i told her that i might love her.

I really have not gotten much detail from my H at all. I figured out most of it on my own and asked and he did tell me i was right. But there are many questions he just WILL NOT answer because he says he does not remember (although he has a good memeory about a lot of things he can tell me anything you could think of when it comes to sports :RollieEyes: )


I agree on this one as well and quite frankly i don't like it when he brings it up mainly because i know nothing will be resolved because he will not tell me anything and it just makes me think he is thinking of the OW, not about feeling guilty (which is probably an DJ but darn it i don't know why he brings it up and it is usually out of the blue when we are not even talking relationship talk).


Actually it is not, he has never been committed to extraordinary care if it at all involves him having to give up anything.

In the beginning of our relationship i was a "softball widow" during the summer months and i mean he played ball all of the time (3 days a week and at least 3 weekends a month), heck he even played a game the morning we got married.

I did not mind him playing and most of the time i went with him to his games. During the week would usually stop after the game and have a couple of beers with the team (him not me i do not drink) and get something to eat or whatever it was a good time for both of us. When he would play in tournaments on the weekends i went with him to those as well, his team was good so they usually place first or second so they were in the tournament for the whole weekend sometimes we would not get home until midnight or so after playing ball all day long.

This went on for years (from the time we got together in 1983 until our DS turned 5 in 1996) and i was alright with it EXCEPT for times when we had other things going on (like a family get together at one of my siblings house or a party someone was having or anything). I would ask him not to play in a tournament but to go with us to whatever instead. I NEVER once won against the ball team, he chose them EVERY single time. His excuse was "well you knew i played ball when we got together" or "the team depends on me being there".

This is just the way my H is, as long as he is "happy" then the whole world should be "happy" i mena what is wrong with us.


What i meant about this not being a POJA moment was i did not know he was renting a movie at all and i was not at home when he chose what movie to rent, he just rented a movie while i was gone and it was on when i came home so there would not have been a chance to POJA.



Touche. But i am telling you i really think it stems from his FOO, he has serious issues with his mother.

Its not acceptable to lie to your S and yet that is what he does.


If this is still his belief about marriage, then you need to leave him as you will never be happy.

From buyers, renters, and freeloaders"

"These are some of the beliefs that support the freeloader's agreement:

1. There are romantic relationships that are right for me and those that are wrong for me. Those that are right for me make me happy without my having to put much effort into making my partner happy. He or she should be happy with what I do that comes almost effortlessly for me. But romantic relationships that are wrong for me require me to do things that do not come naturally.

2. If I am in a romantic relationship with someone who criticizes me, it is a sign that the relationship is wrong for me. It's a mistake for me to change my behavior to accomodate a critical partner, because I'm only prolonging a relationship that isn't meant to be.

3. A romantic relationship that is right for me requires unconditional care and acceptance. If my partner expects me to do something in return for what he or she has done for me, it's a sign that the relationship is not based on unconditional care and, as such, is wrong for me. It's a mistake to try to change my behavior to make a relationship seem fair to my partner, because I should be unconditionally accepted for who I am and what I do."


"The relationship between a buyer and freeloader is a disaster for the buyer. While infidelity is usually the most obvious problem, simple neglect can also make the relationship impossible for the buyer. Freeloaders live their lives as if the buyer doesn't even exist. Sometimes they leave the buyer for weeks at a time and return without so much as a "hello". No one can survive a thoughtless relationship for very long.

A buyer can be an example to the freeloader of how romantic partners should treat each other. Plan A and Plan B are my recommended strategies for buyers who have freeloaders as partners. But in the end, if a freeloader is not converted, the buyer should terminate the relationship to avoid a painful life of neglect."

Well that is what he tells me every time i try to discuss anything regarding the A. He does not remember.

And that is the way he views marriage i guess. He will not give up anything ever and he never has, i am the one who gives up if there is any giving.