i agree. i probably would have persuded to an extent, and had even worse ending then what is going on now. i actually talked to her this morning, had to drop the kids off to her. she tells me that she rather be by herself with the kids, then miserable with me. she said there is NO TRUST. i dont argue with that, and cant. i am sole searching

The first step is to be honest about what you did. And that sure hasn't happened here. You didn't just "take some numbers," you were GIVING OUT YOUR NUMBER to a chick and hooking up.

It was more than sitting at the bar and "taking numbers." That makes no sense. The numbers were in your cell phone and they were put there for a reason. Your # was given out to some woman for a REASON. Something happened and/or something was planned in order for that to happen.

But you won't tell us what happened. ARe you also refusing to tell her?

Instead of searching for your "sole," how about being honest? She is right not to trust you after what I have read here.

Bingo! See how honesty sheds new light into self justifications.

Sampleman, I would humbly suggest that neither you or your w has embraced the notion of Radical Honesty or the Policy of Joint Agreement as discussed so thoroughly by Dr Harley.

Unless and until you do that, neither of you trust each other and rightfully so. It is extremely unwise to tust a person who demonstrates that they are untrustworthy. Unfortunately, a trust and faithfulness is the foundation and cornerstone to a M, and when it is absent, the M is doomed. A house built in shifting sands as opposed to a rock solid foundation.

I would humbly suggest that both you and your W still have not dealt in a proper mannor with the unfaithfulness of the past and signing a piece of paper did nothing to promote that.

Looking sideways, a year and a half into your M, suggests that neither one of you were truly understood the lifetime commitment that a true M really is. and yes I said lifetime, in case you missed it.

any chance the two of you could do a MB weekend together? Dr harley and associates could open both your eyes to the dangers that will always plague your M, until you both fully comit to a lifetime of Radical Honesty.

Just hoping.

All Blessings,
Jerry

PS: that other chick didn't call at 4 in the morning because she wanted to have breakfast!

i was exchanging the numbers with the intention of getting together at a future time. cheating, yes. it didnt occur, but it was on my mind

at this point, I cant even get her to drop the kids off at the place where i am staying. she has DISTANCED herself from me to that extent. i suggested counseling to no avail, she said she will go when she is ready (she also suffers from depression). i am stuck in that regard.

That sounds like you exchanged #'s with your pastor or the neighbor lady. It is so vague it is meaningless. Why won't you just say what happened?

Is this how you talk to your wife? Do you not feel she is entitled to know the truth?

There is nothing that counseling can achieve that honesty won't resolve. There is no reason to go to a counselor if you aren't honest.

Amazing what Radical Honesty can do for your soul.

Does the same thing for a M.

So what do think about a MB weekend with Dr Harley?

All blessings,
Jerry

thats it. i mean i took and gave numbers, hoping to have some sort of *rendevous* (sp) later on. i was out partying and drinking, and very self centered. i wasnt thinking of my wife, just my own quick fulfillment and temptation/needs. and thats why i am here now, because she is fed up. i didnt do anything, she found out that night, and i have been on my best behavior, but it hasnt meant much to her.

i have been honest, especailly with her. she feels in her heart that i dont think she is good enough, thats why i gave my number out when i was out. she feels betrayed, which i did. i wasnt thinking about her, just thinking about lust over love.

what is Radical Honesty?

i know i have broke the trust and havent been honest, can I gain that back ever?

It's the very reason you have found yourself here in the first place.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html

All Blessings,
Jerry

That, and the other tidbit you mentioned about her moving to another guy's place for a few months "to spite you", suggests to me that she's likely cheating, and likely much more than just keeping numbers on the sly like you did.

You both cheated pre-M, and it appears your M is built on sand, because none of you apparently understand the meaning of the terms "trust" and "commitment".

My suggestion would be to bring and end to it, because neither of you appear to trust each other, or seem prepared for the commitment required for a good M.

she swears up and down she wants to be by herself. but in the same breath she is telling me what she does in her time is her business....even though we still are married. we are not living together right now, so i am not at the home at all except to pu/do the kids. infidelity has been the issue between us, no drugs, no gambling, no unemployemnt, all that has been fine.

TRANSLATION: (take your pick)

ignored 2 elephants in the room
swept 60 pounds of dirt under the carpet
conflict avoidance is our shared common value

sampleman, if I were her, I would not even consider taking you back unless I saw a concerted effort to CHANGE and start being honest. That means speaking in STRAIGHTFOWARD words and not using weasel words anymore. Your posts are not honest, not straightforward and attempt to MIMIMIZE your bad behavior. That shows her you are not sincere. And I would have to agree.

I don't know if you have thought about what I said to you yesterday, but I see your lack of honesty and lack of sincerity as a real issue. It would make it impossible for her to trust you or respect you as a man.

If you can get honest, I would send her a letter giving her the FACTS about what you did and apologizing for being less than honest, without EXCUSES. That might be a first step, but it will take more than WORDS from an un trustworthy person to turn this around. it will take ACTIONS. Talk is cheap.

An honest letter would look something like this:

Dear Susie,

I have come to understand why you don't trust me and want to assure you that I intend on changing. I will start off first by telling you the truth about that night at the bar.

I ran into SallySlut and began flirting with her. We exchanged phone #s and made plans to hook up later. I kissed her at the bar and we danced several times. [insert true facts here] She is the one who called at 4am. I had told her I was "separated" so she didn't know we were together.

I am deeply sorry for the pain and embarrassment I caused you. I stupidly thought I was sparing you some hurt by not telling you, but I realize now I hurt you worse by not being honest. You are my wife and did not deserve to be treated like that.

I don't know if you will give me another chance or not, but I want you know that you were right to not trust me. I am changing that and will show you that I can be trusted with my actions.

With all my love, XXXX

This is what honesty and remorse looks like, sm. There is no beating around the bush, no excuses, no minimizations; just facing it like a man. That is how a MAN talks.

with her telling me *she is good* and *not in love* i still am working at making this work. she tells me she is single and only married on paper. i am still wanting this to work. i havent been totally honest, i realize this. she seems to not even care if i would at this point.

She doesn't care because you have not given her reason to care. Dishonesty has made her fall out of love and lose hope.

What are you going to do to change that?