BF (and Holy Heart too),

My heart aches for you. Although my FWH ultimately DID come out of his fog and slowly recommit (for which I thank God as fervently as I begged Him to save us), I remember the agony of where you are now.

What got me through was the endless love and support from my grown kids and some very dear friends, and working my hardest to learn and integrate the MB principles. I made it a full-time job.

I will never know which had the greater effect on turning my WH into a FWH--the changes I made in me, or prayer. So I continue to do both.

I pray you both have a good resolution. In the meantime, keep the faith!

Right Here Waiting

Hi BF,

I know you have a heavy heart about the way your WH is treating your children and it seems that they are seeing through him at the moment too.

It must feel horrible as a dad to be rejected by your children and I hope that it speaks to him as God would intend. It must take a foolish heart to not feel the rejection and I hope that he is not on that level. I hope he FEELS it all.

Focus on being singular and be proud of the way you are holding up. You're doing a wonderful job and your children will always know what you have sacrificed for them and one day, they will acknowledge you for the amazing effort and balance you have achieved.

You're wonderful!

Hey, all, the kids situation is an interesting development and I talked with them a few times the last few days and what DD13 finally said today is that since there is no chance that we are going to R since he wants the D, they don't want to have anything to do with him.
I asked her if it had anything to do with how upset I was the other night and she said, no, its about that he's really going to D me.
Even DS11 doesn't want to talk to him. DD13 texted him tonight a little, but she said it very quickly went to his, "i want to be a better person," thing, but she did not seem to be buying it.

I don't know how much to encourage them to have contact with him or how much to let it go, but even MIL has said that that is one of the consequences he's going to have to deal with.

This whole thing is just so sad on so many levels...I know we could rebuild a healthy, happy family since we really did have a good foundation and we have good support, but I cannot do it with WH if he's not interested.
I can, however, do it alone, if need be...

He'll be over a little this week since our childcare for DD4 is in vegas, but the older kids ASKED that he not be here in the evening, so we will see how that goes...

BF439

I'm so sorry. I guess I would tell the kids to always tell the truth.

Hey, all, just a quick update...
DD13 and DS11 are still not talking to their dad and he has continued to push, through text messages and the IM, for me to encourage them to talk to him. DD4 has not been spending the night, just visiting for a few hours.

Even MIL, is like, this is one of the consequences and if they don't want to talk to him, don't make them! So, I am just trying to support them and not focus on it either, because I think they are tired of thinking and talking about it right now. They just need some normal...

They both start with my counselor next week for family and maybe IC, so I hope that helps them.

A friend of mine observed that he really does seem to think that he can make these choices and everyone will get in line and be "cool" with it and he won't have any negative consequences. Seems like reality is catching up with him.

I am going to work very hard to stay very dark because I don't help myself at all when I have contact with him. I think about what a poster said here about BS being their own worst enemy sometime!
BF439

Just came back from a pretty intense IC session and have been crying quite a bit, for a couple of reasons:
1. As sad as I am, I don't think that I have allowed myself to really grieve what I've lost at this point. I focus so much on what to do to R marriage, that I am not dealing with the feelings of loss that are so real and so present for me.
2. As my IC pointed out, my WH has probably had a lack of committment to the marriage for many years and that is why his response to this crisis is to just leave and start over and that will probably not change. So her suggestion is that the M is likely to not R because he is not committed at all (which would explain why he 'moved on' so easily).

So I am sad and I am scared and I really don't want to do anything more today except curl up in a ball in my bed with my pug, but I can't because I have to work and take care of the kids and all those other grown-up things....

There just is not much for me to report over here in Plan B! I kind of wish there was, like WH trying to find excuses to see me, but like he has said many times, he has "moved on."

I hate that phrase!! How could he have "moved on?" I am thankful that I get through a day, let alone, "move on!" I was thinking about this the other day in terms of trying to picture myself with another man and even the thought of a date, let alone a kiss or SF makes me want to vomit! Is this a difference between BW vs. BH -- a sort of biological response? How could he not only have been with someone else sexually while he was with me, but how could he be with her (and try to be with others) when he knew I was completely devastated at home with our kids?! Is that moving on or some sickness?

I know I will likely not have any answers any time soon or even ever, but I am still so sad every day and even sadder because what I imagine is that he's not sad at all.

He hardly sees the kids now because they don't really want to see him or spend the night at his apartment and I think if I were him and losing my family, I'd be on the floor praying so fast it would make your head spin!

I guess this is just a quick vent and I can probably even provide some answers here:
ITs the Fog!!! All WS's do it!!!! Stay Dark!!!!

But it feels good to just dump some of those swirling thoughts sometimes....

BF439

bf,

So sorry your H is still unrepentant, and that you are facing the depth of your loss.

I question what your IC said, though. While your WH might very well have been emotionally disconnected from the M for a long time, it doesn't mean he won't ever see the light. (My FWH claims he was emotionally disconnected for many years before his A.) Whether he sees that light before you are over him is an entirely different question.

He may never see it, but the odds are against that. There are posters whose WH's have gotten the divorce they wanted, only to have the affair implode shortly thereafter (believer, I think, is one). WH then wants to come back, but BW has built a better life in the interim, and is happier on her own. Tragic. Mostly for HIM.

I hope Mr. bf gets his poop in a pile soon. It is only a matter of time before you decide you are better off without him. And the poor fool doesn't know what's coming.

Prepare for a better life, bf. You can control that!

Hugs,

RHW

"gets his poop in a pile.."
That made me laugh, so thank you!

I think what I am experiencing is just the rollercoaster. I have not talked with WH since valentines day and I am continuing to just try to focus on my own healing, but it never feels like a steady climb out -- just a step forward and half a step back. Some days I feel like I took three giant leaps ahead and then slid back near the bottom.

But, I can say that I am separated without crying; I can say, yes, he is likely to divorce me without crying and there are times I can't even imagine having him in my life after what he's done.

I want to get my power (over myself and my life) back, but I know that doesn't just happen. Or does it?

At least today was warm enough to open the doors and get some fresh air. And, I've been on a curry kick lately and my kids and I can't seem to get enough of it, so at least I'm eating!

WH is unrepentent and proud, as far as I can tell, but I think he's always been like that. The kids and I go to the counselor tonight and she spoke with WH last week about a family session (WH and kids) so it will be interesting to see what came out of their conversation.

I'll update later after curry and counseling!
BF439

P.S. to anyone following my thread, who has a thread, I am following others, but have given myself permission to not post so much, just because I've been pretty low. I am thinking about everyone though and you are in my prayers!!!

BF, you are in my prayers, too.

It may be easy for our WHs to forget us because they've redirected their energy to new people and a new life. They're very busy "being happy." And we, you and me and all the other left-behind WSs, feel the void in our hearts (and beds) AND the extra responsibilities on our shoulders.

As for what we're missing -- at times, I think we're way better off. We're missing someone who did not want to be a part of this wonderful family anymore. Who thought it better to lie and cheat his way out of it. Someone who traded himself from a winning team to a losing team.

And with the D begun, my new phrase is that he's not sitting at my table.

bf,

Even though you've been actively working on your own healing, I'm sure that personal recovery is no quicker or easier than reconciling would be. Parallel rollercoaster. WH hasn't even begun, although he has no idea about that. He'll get his turn in the barrel, for whatever that's worth to you.

I don't thing getting your power back can "just happen," any more than a marriage can be healed in one fell swoop. Because of the depth of the trauma, both take a lot of time.

You are on the way, though.

Note the progress in your being able to say you're separated, or likely to be divorced, without crying. That's huge.

Methinks that wayward hubby of yours is about to lose the best thing that ever happened to him... Hope it helps you to remember that, against a closed mind, God Himself is helpless.

Post when you need a cyber hug.

((((bf))))

RHW

RHW and Holyheart, thanks for the support. Today is a better day and I have had some interesting conversations and thoughts.

For instance, I have been thinking more about my self-esteem and how I allowed WH to treat me as less -- he wasn't abusive or unkind, I just was obviously not a super important part of his life. But then again, neither were the children. And it was not always like that. Here's my thinking around this: for someone to act on feelings of attraction and continue an affair, they must have some issues with making their needs a priority over others. When I reflect back, that is certainly a pattern of his.
When I look at how he's handling the children right now, its the same. He wants to talk with them and he is suffering -- no stated concern for the children. Yes, he gets they are angry and don't want to talk to him, but he really wants to talk to them ASAP, so no real understanding of what they need right now.

WH talked with my counselor last week (she's going to do family with me and the kids and I said it was ok) and she was able to say some of this to him -- that he needs to allow the kids to drive this timetable. So I get a message from the IM that he wants to take all 3 kids next weekend to visit with his friends (which they would find unbelievably boring -- these friends have no kids), but he knows they may not want to and he's not sure how to ask. So, it hit me (and the IM) that he wants me to help and I realized that I have been softening his consequences 'for the kids' sake.' So I put that work back on him -- 'yes, it will be difficult for him to ask them,' since DD11 won't talk to him, but I'm not going to do it for him. The kids have said they do not want to go with him, so why would next Saturday be different? They know they can see or talk to him whenever they want and I am going to really let them drive that and stop asking for him!! Oh, I'm so angry at him!! he has devastated their lives and he just pushes and pushes!

So, I'm continuing to think more about what do I want and need and trying to see him more objectively. I tend to think about what I miss about him and focus on how crappy if feels to be dumped, but there is a whole other side to who he is that I have to start seeing.

I try to remind myself and am working on believing this: "he does not deserve me right now." That's still kind of hard for me to truly accept...

BF439

Exactly, bf. It's important to let the consequences of waywards' choices fall squarely on their heads.

You've certainly been dealing with the consequences of your WH's choices! Your kids have too. Why shouldn't HE experience the downside of them? Own your power and use it to minimize the harm he's inflicted on you.

Don't push your kids at all. Why should they--or you--do anything to make HIS life easier, when he's destroyed yours?

You know how it helps YOU to stay dark? I'm guessing the kids have realized the same thing. When they're with him, they hurt. When they don't deal with him, they hurt less. Just like you. They're telling you that, by their not wanting to be with him. At least for now.

Let him figure it out. Or not.

I think seeing more objectively his actions help me stay dark.

DD13 once jokingly said she wanted to Plan B him, too, so maybe she was on to something!

I think early on, I bought into his version of how things should go "for the kids' sake" and didn't even really see that the kids knew what they needed. Now it feels better to step out from in between them, but be there for the kids.

There are still moments of self-doubt, but when my kids said last night that they thought I was strong, I felt so encouraged. I express my feelings and sometimes that's hard, but its real and it doesn't make me weak.

I hope spring brings us better days because the kids and I are happy when we don't have to deal with him as he is now.

Hey bf,

While you're waiting for spring, why don't you and the kids do a couple of "new" things to change the atmosphere you've all been living in? Hit some local attraction or activity you've not done before. Don't know what's available where you live, but we have a place called "You Do The Dishes," where you can paint pottery and they fire it for you. Kids could do it. Or maybe something that your local YMCA/YWCA has going? The kids' teachers might even know of things locally you might try.

Anything to "mix it up" and create good memories that involve just you and the kids.

Once the weather warms up, you'll have more options.

RHW

Yeah, we been trying to do some of that. We went to a plant conservatory, which my kids really loved, but we need to come up with some other fun stuff.

I'm also trying to think of things we can do that would be hard for the little one to enjoy (certain movies, the art museum etc)for the big kids and I to do when she is with WH. That way, we can make something positive out of a yucky situation.

It will be a little easier once spring arrives -- at least they can get out of the house and air out!!!

Hi BF... just caught up on your thread. I've been thinking, every time you mention the counselor I wonder if her only goal is to facilitate the divorce and "help you get through it". What does she think about recovery? Does she know about MB principles? Have you thought about calling the Harleys for some coaching?

Hey, Princessmeggy! This is a fairly new counselor and she is for me and the kids. WH and I had one last summer for MC and that was pretty ineffective because he had never stopped the affair! He sees her for IC now.
I think my counselor would be supportive of R, but she seems to grasps how 'out there' my WH is and really supports me keeping my distance right now.
She seems pretty familiar with affairs and some of the patterns, which is part of what I 'interviewed' her about before choosing her, and she really seems to get the wayward part.

I talked with the Harleys in the fall and WH talked with Steve once, too. I think what is very much missing for him is the belief that it can get better or that committment is something you do, not feel. I've thought about talking with Steve again, but being in Plan B begs the question, what would I do differently?
What do you think he might say?
BF439

Oh I see, I guess I missed the part where it is "family" counseling as opposed to "marriage" counseling.

As far as calling SH, I have no idea what he would say. I was just throwing that out there because I was concerned about the counseling thing.

Carry on with your Plan B (and your life!) and be paaatttiieeennttt.

(((BF)))

Sounds like your counselor is approaching this like the Harleys would. While H is actively wayward, he is DANGEROUS to BW. And she should stay away.

That is exactly what Steve told me at one point, so you are doing the best thing possible, given the situation.

Glad to hear you are proactively doing things that will get your minds off what H/Daddy is doing! Awesome, girl.