I'm not that excited about mediation either when you consider WHO the mediator might be. Perhaps YOU can choose the mediator, or your solicitor has a recommendation for the mediator. I think that is the ONLY way you will have an equal footing in the mediation process.

And do NOT sign anything in mediation...

Still praying Tully.

Not exactly true.

The mediator's job is to bring things to a conclusion. To get each side to "negotiate" until they reach and end point. It is nOT the mediator's job to see that things come out "fairly".

If the mediator presents any ideas that Tully fully disagrees with, but the mediator thinks are "fair", it WILL look bad for Tully. Even if they end up going to court, the events that occurred during the mediation attempt can work AGAINST Tully.

You can cetrtainly bet that NO mediator is going to agree that Tully be given as much money as her WH originally offered.

It really is NOT a matter of hearing the mediator out and then saying, "OK, I would like to go away and think about this." If mediation works at all like it does in America, the idea is to go in and come out with a solution on the same day. And if you do NOT, you are looked on as hostile, unreasonable, etc.

Mediation sounds good on paper, but it assumes that both parties genuinely want to come to a solution that is good for both of them, that at some place both parties do not want to hurt the other. I think it is a far stretch to believe that Tully's WH does not want to hurt her.

Remember that he is getting his advice from the radical group.

Tully, of course you should find out WHY your solicitor is so dead set against mediation.

But you should follow her advice. AND, if she is at all wishy-washy or NOT a barracuda where YOUR needs are concerned, get another solicitor as soon as possible. (I say this because I am VERY concerned about her colleague who told you that you should leave your home and then did nothing to get the PIL out.)

Blessings,

I hear ya W2LE.

There are certain risks either way. Although I would not hold the advice of the colleague, against tully's solicitor. She may know very little of tully's case or simply didn't want to be held liable or cupable by telling tully to return to a house with violent people in it.

Unfortunately we know very little how the system works in France. tully, is there a website that provides French divorce/mediation info? Perhaps having a dozen set of extra eyes could be helpful to look at it from multiple angles. We all have the common goal in helping you and seeing the sitution from every point of view is an advantage.

It was to look at things from WH's perspective. The story TA told is almost certainly the one WH will present to a mediator or a judge.

All of us would be wise to re-read TA's post and consider that this is what Tully will most likely be up against in mediation or a custody suit.

TA did bring up a lot of valid points as to how WH will likely agrue his position. That is a good thing...know your enemy. Where it got kind of muddled, at least for me, was the switching between what WH would present vs what TA's opinion was. Perhaps the message got lost in translation.

That might be where he is coming from but it lacks responsibility for the choices he and his parent made by choosing violence for and answer.

As far as I know the only time a judge will consider violence ok is in self Defense. In this case he cannot claim it as there were witnesses who can account to the contrary.

Tully trust in your solicitor.....she has a vast more knowledge of the mediators and of the solicetors playing in this game. Remember WH is getting this advice from his solicitor who's primary goal is to keep the children IN FRANCE.

AS far as the POSIL....like I said before tully if there are guns in your house HIDE THEM. I do not trust these people to go further in there violation of your person. I wish I was there with you....trust me no man or woman has Ever laid a hand upon me and most who thought about it changed there mind quick. I still think you need someone with that type of command presence staying with you.

Holding my breath here, waiting for news that the evil IL's have gone home...

Ooo, now I LOVE that idea. After all, that is EXACTLY what WH is doing. He has an entire organization working for him.

Also, My DDIL's 1st language is French(she is from Morocco). If the site does not translate, I would ask for her help.


That is exactly how I felt too. At first, I thought it was a good idea to look at things as WH did, but then it SEEMED to deteriorate into TA's opinion of Tully's actions.

Sigh. It is so hard to communnicate WELL through a forum.

I wonder what the organization would do if they know he's assaulted you.

Many of the father's rights organizations in the States WILL NOT aid anyone who has an abusive record. These organizations want GOOD fathers and role models - not abusers...that's just not good for publicity.

One final thought on mediation. The parties usually agree going in that nothing that is presented in mediation (especially settlement propositions) can be used against them as evidence in court. In other words, one side or the other can't say, "but Judge, in mediation she/he proposed this or that, etc." That gives them more freedom to negotiate.

The mediator is not allowed to give his opinion other than to notify the court that mediation did not work out. However, he/she can report that the case settled and provide the details on that IF it settles.

At least that's the way it works in Texas.

One more thing...

Tully, I know you aren't frightened of what he might do to the kids, but as another mommy I feel that I HAVE to point out that your oldest is becoming a "tweenager", and that means mood swings and feelings and an burgeoning sense of independence.

That also means that she's not always gonna want to do what her parents think is best.

I've a tween myself, and she's as stubborn as her momma and twice as good looking ( ). Now having seen what happens when your wh feels like he can't control a situation, do you really think that he is capable of ALWAYS keeping cool when dealing with your daus?

I don't. Once he's used abuse and gotten away with it, he'll keep doing it...add that to HIS OWN PARENTS brow beating you with him and you've got a pack-mentality and a humongous sense of entitlement to go with it.

Just thinking...

I have bad hebejeebies about this whole situation. Bad ones.

I hear ya there cinders. I have been feeling the same way and spoke on it now a few times. Something feels wrong. The sense of forboding has been like a great weight or pressure nagging just in the back of my mind.

It's just not right...it's just not right....I don't trust this man...I don't trust his parents...I don't trust his advisors...I don't trust the law enforcement officials....I don't trust anyone (but Tully) in this mess.




Praying night and day for Tully. And Chai. And Queenie



I know there are others and they get generic prayers right now....these three women are the ones I am naming specifically....many times every day. When I type here, every post gets sent with a prayer. When I drive, I pray. When I do my training walks, I pray. For lots of y'all here.

TJ/ Cinders, you have got a heart of GOLD. May God bless you richly.

/TJ

princess meggy

You know, when I walk, I have a lot of time to think....and I thank God that I am physically healthy (let me tell you, I'm not 25 any more and my body hurts a lot of the time - if it weren't for medication, I don't know that I could walk 5 miles much less train for a half-marathon), that I am emotionally healthy, that I am free, that I have friends, that I don't have cancer (never have - I'm just raising money to provide support services for cancer patients), that my children are healthy and smart and normal, that I am loved, that I can be there for y'all, that God has blessed me so richly, stuff like that....for the flowers and the clouds and eyes to see them and birds that I can hear with my ears.

I know, also, how much it matters to know you have people praying for you. I remember how depressed and desperate and alone and lonely I felt during my marriage's death. If my prayers can help one person then two (or more) lives are blessed by the miracle of prayer....mine and the person for whom I pray.

I guess my mama did raise at least one good girl.

Y'all are special to me.

In Michigan, my SIL and her boyfrined (baby daddy) kept going back in front of the judge, and she (the judge)was getting angrier and angrier, it was obvious she knew what the problem was. She made pointed comments about things to them.
She ordered them "back to the table" 3 times in one afternoon!
it was BORING!

It worked out, in the end for my SIL benefit- so I am not complaining. But this was a court appointed mediator...and this case had been going on a few years...

Tully, I'm well aware that you don't like my posts because they don't tell you what you want to hear. You're looking for support for your sense of pain and injustice and the awfulness of your WH and ILs. There's certainly plenty of that kind of support here on MB, and probably in real life too.

That kind of support is soothing and warm, but it won't help you deal with your situation. Let's be blunt. You're in a deep hole. You don't have the luxury of emotional wallowing. You have to get down to thinking with a cold, realistic head, and no amount of 'Poor Tully' posts will help you there.

I doubt if there's a court in France - nor Ireland - that will think 'Poor Tully'. Their focus will be on the welfare of the girls, and you will be expected to comply. If you don't agree with their opinions, you will have to come up with reasoned, persuasive arguments not based on emotion or your pain. Unfair as it may seem, the infidelity is unlikely to affect their decision-making process in any way.

Let me make quite plain, as I have throughout this thread, that I believe your taking the girls to Ireland was unfair to them, and a tactical mistake. No matter how poorly your WH has behaved, I can only sympathise with his desire to have the girls returned to their home. You're perfectly free to disagree with me, but how sure are you that a court will agree with you rather than me? And that's what actually matters, in the long run. Isn't it?

Your WH has focused on the removal of the children for what are likely to be mixed reasons. Yes, it gives him a way to see himself as being 'the good one', but I doubt very much, from reading his emails, that this is the only reason. Because the situation with the girls disturbs me so much, I can easily see why it would disturb him. Projecting only evil intentions onto him does not help your cause.

Tully, I will be blunt, and probably engender pages of angry posts. Over the course of the last few months on here, in my view you have demonstrated a tendency to avoid seeing what you don't want to see.

1. The obvious one - that your WH would 'abduct' the children back. How many posts warned you of this? It was blazingly obvious to everyone else on this thread that he hadn't got involved with a militant fathers' rights group for the bowling night and quiz evenings. We screamed at you, but you were certain that it wouldn't happen, because it would be hard for him to live with the hostility of the village. Well, he clearly wasn't bothered about the village's feelings, was he?

2. Your WH has behaved in ways that suggest a deeply selfish and entitled nature. All BSs are surprised by the uncharacteristic selfishness of their wayward spouses, but after 20 years, most would be aware of such major personality flaws. Over the last few months, you have been recognising that he has always had these tendencies. For you NOT to have seen them in all that time, you had to be deep into avoidance.

3. Your lack of reaction to the many useful, sensible posts from Silda, informing you of the pragmatic reality of your legal situation. She made several excellent, if alarming, points about your vulnerability, and you refuted them on the basis that your WH wouldn't want to pollute his children's relationship with himself and you. Silda's words may not have been nice to think about, but they were spot on.

4. Your assertion that the girls are seeing the current situation as benign, just a visit with family. Tully, unless your children are completely different from all children I have ever known, it is absolutely impossible that they would not know that something pretty odd was going on. A 12 year-old, taken abroad without being forewarned by her mother, thinking it's all normal? Come on.

5. Your assertion that the girls are safe with WH and the ILs, while you are not. You may be right, but how likely is it that a court will take the view that it was wise for you to leave your children in the charge of people you believed to be dangerous and capable of violence, especially when you had your sister with you and would not have been on your own? Whether you like it or not, things like that can count against you in trying to get custody of the girls.

Tully, you are likely to hate this post and be very angry with me - and so will many among your support group here - but I hope it will do something to get you to start thinking rationally and realistically. What's happening to you is not fair, people ARE behaving appallingly towards you, you have been betrayed and mistreated. But you simply can't afford to make comforting assumptions and then be shocked when they're disproved. If you had no children, I'm sure you would wash your hands of the whole business. But you do have kids, and you have to start fighting.

You are in deep waters. You need to enlist the help of mature, toughened professionals, who have experience of the kind of high-stakes situation that you're in. You need to listen to THEM - not your family, or your friends, or kind MBers. We are all out of our depth here, but it's certain that telling you how unfair it is that you were thrown off the ship will not keep you afloat.

TA