I was on my way to the gym after a week off fighting bronchitis and I decided to turn around and finish this while I was thinking about it. Please, any thoughts and insight are welcome. I am planning to give him the final draft at the airport on Tuesday.

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<<Version 2 posted later in thread>>>>

Hi OH,

You've done a really good job at being clear about your requirements, and accepting responsibility for your part. The main suggestion I would make, though, would be to shorten it. I know that's hard, you are wanting to tell him every word that you've written - but what if he just glances at it? What do you want him to read if he isn't inclined to read more than a few seconds before getting angry or something?

One way to shorten it is to put your list of requirements as a separate document. That helps hold his attention for the rest of the letter.

*hugs*

Thanks Jayne. I'm shamelessly bumping in the hopes that some others will comment.

I actually was thinking there was MORE stuff I'd like to include,not less! Then again, brevity has never been my strong point: verbal or written.

His LBing behavior: the DJs and AOs are the biggies. Should I even address these specifically? He knows nothing about MB or the terminology. Yet, these are big things to me. They hurt me and I see them hurting my kids.

OH, my prayers are with you and your family. I think I need to say something, but I feel in over my head and don't know what else to say, so the best I can offer is my best wishes to you and let you know I believe in you.

That would be included in the part about new ways to fix your marriage. I like Jayne's idea to move the requirements to a separate list. A second page. Good letter, though.

Why not???

(sorry if that's been covered)

CWMI, he has not been involved in my MB journey. Any discussions we've had where I've used any MB terminology have just been diverted by him into a discussion about "you read it on a website so now you think it's true" so I tend to stick to layman's terms to avoid that.

I like the idea of putting the list on a separate page.

I don't like the idea that the senior class of our high school is taking advantage of the unofficial "senior skip day". I had a SSD when I was in high school--it's not sanctioned by the administration but I guess I feel you're only a HS senior once. It's a small public school and most of these kids have known each other since kindergarten (one elem, one middle, one high). But now because the kids couldn't agree on a date, they've scheduuled several. The principal just sent out an email that a bunch of kids were absent today and my son is telling me it's next Friday. His a$$ had better have been in school today!

Look at that. I hijacked my own thread. Kids. grrrrrr......

OH:

Good job on taking the time and making the effort to write down your thoughts. Not easy to do when you are so upset. It helps clarify your thoughts for yourself. Which helps when you bring them to your spouse. Kudos.

You have done a good job of stating your needs. You have stated them from the "I" perspective, which is good. But for me, I would cut down on the "I need you to ...." format. This can be very off-putting and likely to trigger defensiveness on his part.

Try switching that around to the "I feel ____ when you do (or don't do) _____" format. Tell him you feel overwhelmed by the financial burden of supporting the family by himself. Tell him you feel abandoned when he leaves you with all the responsibility. Tell him that you would feel more like a team if he got a job, but leave an opening for him to address your stress level in some other way.

Tell him how you feel when he drnks. Tell him you can't stand the pain you feel when you see the impact on his health. Tell him you may have to separate so that you don't have to see it on a daily basis. Don't tell him what he has to do. Tell him what you need to do to protect yourself if the situation doesn't change. He still gets to decide whether to change.

I think "here are the things that cause me pain, and I will have to leave if the pain continues" is more likely to be well received than "you need to do _____ or I'm outta here".

Good thoughts Hold and they make sense. I will try to work them into my rewrite. Many have told me to be upfront and direct in my listing of things that need to change and it's very difficult to write that in a non-DJ manner. I struggled with it for the past few days. That was the part of this letter that was holding me up. I finally decided today when I skipped the gym, that I was just going to power through it and get feedback here. So I do thank you!

I liked the letter and think you did a great job. I do have a few suggestions:

1. I would leave room for negotiation if necessary. While not trying to waffle on your boundaries and be clear about them, they do come across as just some arbitrary number that you came up with (job in 90 days, 1 glass per day). I don't think it's the numbers your after, their just indicators of showing progress and something measurable. Are you really ready to end things if he has a job in 92 days instead of 90? What you want him to do is actively be seeking a job and get one. Are there other marks of progress that you can use? (x number of resumes out per week, x number of phone calls, at least a part time job by x). Could he help you set these even? They are your boundaries, but... Now if you firmly believe in these numbers, stick with them. But if they are just arbitrary numbers, working together on them might provide some degree of cooperation.

2. I would also take out the "I think it's not unfair" statements. Besides being a double negative with not and un in the same phrase, it kind of sounds snobbish. Keep in mind that this is what you think, not necessarily what's right or correct for him. Perhaps a sentence like "I have tried to be as fair as possible when coming up with these boundaries" at the end of the whole list rather than at the end of each boundary. Depending on what you think of suggestion #1, maybe even an "If you feel these boundaries are unfair, I would welcome your thoughts and feelings on these matters as long as we can have an intelligent civil discussion".

Once again only suggestions reading it as maybe he would read it. If you're happy with it, send it as is. It is your marriage and you know best.

Hi JCat:

I think I really need to be specific about what I mean when I say "find a job" "cut back on the drinking" or it just becomes like another vague statement. We've been married almost 21 years and he's been unemployed for half that time. That's pretty scary.

OH,

Boy, letters like this are always a tough challenge. I remember posting some letters I wanted to send to my W early on and getting some tough but helpful feedback from Star and Takola especially. Those two longtime posters aren't around any more, and I really miss them both personally. That said, let's talk about your letter.

My first recommendation is generic. Whenever writing letters of this nature, it is critical to remain 1st person using "I feel xxxx when yyyy occurs" type statements. If the word "you" exists, it may be worth re-examining the sentence as oftentimes "you" statements can come across as too direct, especially if you and H are having a tough time right now and the love bank balances are in the red. You statements may inadvertently set him on the defensive and the entire point of writing the letter may become a moot point if this happens.

Second, stick to yourself and stating the problems within the context of your EN's first, and then if necessary help your H to understand how to effectively apply himself to improve the situation.

So, in the name of helping, let me see if I can give some actual examples now.



Strong statement, and maybe you're at the point where this is what needs to be said. There is definitely a time to be this straightforward. I'd probably elaborate a bit more, something like this:

"At the same time, I am really hurting right now because our marriage is suffering. I'm at the point where I cannot see a way to dig ourselves out of the whole that we've been in for quite a while now, and I'm starting to feel as though there is no hope for our marriage."


Okay, what specifically do you mean by "I miss the feeling of being head over heels in love with you." Can we describe what this looks like to you and to your H? Example: "I miss the times when you'd take me out to dinner and a movie, or just for a nice walk together to be with one another." Maybe paint a picture for him of what you being head over heels in love with him looks like. The tough part about letters like this is that we're attempting to mix some tough love statements yet also avoid tearing our mate down and actually try and give them some motivation to change for the better.


Hmmm. I don't like the "remain married" part personally. I'd probably try to re-word it, something like:

"However, the things that I am asking for in order to reverse our downward spiral and give our marriage a chance to survive and even thrive are things I feel are very important to...."


Okay, here's where I'd recommend stating the first sentence in terms of what your emotional needs are rather than making a "you" type statement. For example: I need financial security. For me to feel as though we're financially secure, we both need to be gainfully employed on a consistent basis...I need both of us to be gainfully employed within the next 90 days if at all possible in order to feel as though there's some semblance of hope...a light at the end of the tunnel that's not a train bearing down on us.


Again, what is the EN that is being met by him not drinking? Something like: I need to feel as though we're both committed to the welfare of our family. Part of this need for me is to set a good example for our children with respect to the use of drugs and alcohol. I want us all to be healthy and happy together as a family unit. It really scares me when I see how much you drink and I'm really hurt because of the way I'm treated when you're under the influence of alcohol. It would really mean the world to me if we could cut back on the alcohol consumption to perhaps a glass of wine in the evenings, I'd even be willing to enjoy a glass of wine with you if that would help.


Again, what is your EN that will be met by this change? Example: I need for us to be as open and honest with one another is is possible. I'm really struggling daily with the emotional effects of the affair that took place not too long ago, I was really hurt and in many ways I'm still really hurting today. I need healing to take place and the only way that I can foresee any opportunity to heal is for us to be completely open and honest with each other about what happened. I need the whole truth, however painful it may be for me to hear it, and for you to say it.

Letters like this in my view are somewhat about emphasizing the fact that marriage is supposed to be about teamwork - and right now one of you - in this case you - feels like you're the only one on the playing field right? So, I tend to use "I" or even "we" type statements instead of "you" type statements. Any statement with "you" in it can too easily come across as an LB.

Please understand that I've not read many of your posts so I don't know the hurt and the stories behind this letter. If your H is in fact an alcoholic then I don't really believe any plan A will work in all honesty. Harley is pretty straightforward that the MB system will not work very well, if at all, if either spouse has an addiction or any kind of personality disorder or compulsion that first needs attention. That said, the feedback here is my best shot at helping you to couch what you have to say from your perspective and your feelings, an actively attempting to avoid any statements that could bring about a defensive posture on your H's part which could easily defeat the purpose of writing the letter in the first place.

*hugs OH!*

OH, perhaps rather than making it about timelines like a strict 90 days, you could craft a sentence that states a timeline but doesn't necessarily put him on the spot for a job per se. Something like:

"After having done the financial math with respect to our current financial circumstances, we can only last about 90 days before our financial situation becomes much more dire, and we'll be faced with much more difficult choices. Right now we're coming up xxx $$$ short each month, and I really need your help to do whatever is possible to make up that difference, the sooner the better. I really need to feel a sense of financial security moving forward in order to feel safe..."

You get the idea. Just thinking out loud here of course. When it comes to delivered bad news, or difficult statements, I tend to use a sandwich approach. The "meat" of the message that will be difficult to hear, is surrounded by two pieces of soft bread to cushion the blow so to speak. So, you start with a statement that emphasizes something positive surrounding the topic at hand, then deliver the hard news, then follow it up with another statement that is positive in nature. Hope this helps!

Hey OH - Good luck with the letter. I'd pay close attention to the things Hold says. Frankly, I think he might be the smartest person here (makes me sad that he won't take his own advice, but that's neither here nor there). In any case, his points are spot-on IMO..

My feedback: Check your rationale for the specific timeline and boundaries you list. Why 90 days? Is there some specific logic associated with that? Impending change in your finances or budget? Just be prepared to explain that timeframe.

Also, the one drink per day boundary. If he has a full-blown problem, this won't cut it. Consider asking to either cut it out entirely for a while. If he can manage to go cold turkey, then maybe you can trust him to maintain a moderate drinking pace. If not, he will need to seek help.

My $.02 - worth every penny you paid.

I agree that you should be direct as to the fact that things need to change. I think you need to be direct about how you feel. And about what you intend to do if his behavior and your feelings do not change. The only thing I suggest you be less strict about is the WAY in which he changes.

Mostly I am concerned about the power relationship you are establishing. A boss might walk into someone's office and say "hit your sales targets by the end of the month or you are fired". A partner is more likely to say "times are tough and if things don't improve we are going to have to let some people go. The rest of us feel you are not holding up your end, and are inclined to let you go at month end. What are you willing to undertake to improve your profitability?"

Suppose he IS willing to change. Do you want to be his boss or his partner?

Hitchhiker, I've read your posts on CFIO's sexual fulfillment thread and I've always thought they were so right-on, so on target. So I really appreciate you chiming in here. I know that you've said you have narcisstic tendencies and I believe my husband does too so your feedback can be crucial in helping me word this letter so that it sits well with him. His defenses go up at the least provocation and that's one thing I'm trying to avoid doing. I don't want him to get 3 sentences into the thing and then wad it up in disgust as just more "blathering" from the whiny wife.

I feel as though I do need to draw a line in the sand about what will happen if things don't significantly improve. He can be the king of passive-aggressive and if it works for him to just bump along, miserable in this marriage until something more convenient comes along, then I think he could do that. The kids and I have experienced enough stress and hurt and my reluctance to draw a line in the sand could make that worse. As so many people remind me, my kids are taking their future relationship cues from watching us.

I could probably reword this letter 'til the cows come home and still not get it exactly right but I'm going to take the great feedback and work on it later tonight and tomorrow and perhaps repost it.

I just hope he doesn't refuse to accept it when I give it to him at the airport on Tuesday.

Hey, $.02 is a bargain these days!

I don't know why 90 days. I guess it seemed fair on the job front and I felt I really had to put a deadline on it. No, I'm not going to walk if it's 92 days but if I just say 'please get a job, any job' then what assurance would I have that he would do it?

As far as the alcohol, I've seen him not drink when he's on certain meds or sick (though lately he has been drinking when sick...) so I don't know if he's physically addicted. Psychologically, yup.

Of course I want to be his partner.

But right now I'm his doormat.

A while back a poster posted from the AA Big Book about there being more than one stage of drinking, I think it was 3. And the 1st stage or 2, they can still take time off without going into DTs.

I'm not saying that to be negative, or to say anything about your H, I'm sorry that it came out that way. It was more of a general thing, that there are folks in general who have gone without drinking for two weeks who are addicted to alcohol and benefit from AA.