What do you believe the number would be?

90% failure rate is not really exorbantly high considering.

((Catgirl))

I have no idea if it will make you feel any better but my SIL was in an affairage, together about 9 years, married 5+ years, had children together. From the outside they looked like they were very happy, especially the first 3-4 years.

Last year they had a very very nasty divorce. She told us all she realized she had never loved him ~ and he told us he found out she was texting/emailing with an old flame.

She is already re-engaged (to that old flame I might add). He is taking her back to court.

Please don't convince yourself everything is great for your WH or will be. I have absolutely ZERO faith in an affairage having long-term happiness.

Hang in there. I have a feeling good things are coming your way

You mentioned going to church, so I'm guessing you were a believer, at least at some point. There are some texts I would like to share with you--not to make the pain go away--that might help to put this into perspective. If you would like, I'd be glad to do so.

tl

Unknown. I wouldn't put such a low number on it, though.

Why? Well, for one thing, excluding my own family, most of the people I know have been divorced at least once. All affair marriages? I doubt it, there are other reasons people divorce.

But in my family, nearly all of the married couples are from an earlier generation. The youngest generation has only just now started to settle down and get married, in the last few years. I'm about in the middle of all of that--my Mom had me at 16.

I just believe generation has a lot to do with it and as time marches on, the institution of marriage has become less valuable and disposed of with more ease.

Like: Hey, let's get married! If it doesn't work out we can always divorce! Hell! We can even do it online!!

That kind of attitude. You know?

Charlotte

But then wouldnt the number be about right. You talk of the divorce rate rising because it doesnt put much stock in being married, so I think that right there shows that it can be right.

50% of first marriages therabouts will end in D. Not that big a deal to really see A marriages end at the 90% rate. Plus the divorce can happen at any time no matter how long they were together. Until death, everyone is a possible D statistic.

Forgive me, Charlotte, but I am afraid you are incorrect.

Facts:
75% of AMs divorce within the first 5 years.
90% of AMs divorce within the first 10 years.
After 10 years, 50% of surviving AMs eventually divorce (about the same rate as 1st Ms).
It is statistically MORE LIKELY that an xWS will be back with their xBS within the first 5 years than still AM'd to the OP.

Pencil it out...that means that only about 5% of AMs last "till death do us part".

If you look at the subset of AMs that are co-adulterous (i.e. BOTH partners are on their 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th M), involve "blended families", and contain vast age differences (>15 years or so)...and the survival rate is even lower with these added stressors. The info I have read puts the rate of life-long "success" in these situations at about 3%.

It is not impossible of course, but AMs like Catgirl's xWH's (and my xWW's as well) are virtually doomed from the get-go...no matter how "perfect" they seem to everyone during the honeymoon period.

Nope. I disagree. I think that a whole new study should be done to get numbers that are closer to accurate. As close as possible, anyway.

Aside from my family and a few people here, MOST of the people I know have been divorced at least once. Granted, not all of these are "affair marriages" but I know some of them are.

What bothers me, though, and I know I'm going to get slammed for this...is...the numbers are pushed again and again and there are many people who hang on to false hopes because of this and let it drag on and on and on and they are miserable and any little crumb thrown at them by a WS is like a gigantic asteroid of hope and speculation that maybe that means that the WS is having second thoughts.

Yeah, giant run-on sentence there but I can't sleep and I'm not caring about that just now.

I know we here all like to believe otherwise, but people do fall in love with other people all of the time when they should not. And yes!! The plans here work!! I'm not saying that they don't!!

They certainly worked for me for personal recovery, although I started out wanting to recover my marriage. But when I found out about the affair...well...that was just it, really. He loved someone else and sometimes...people just go nuts. (I jumped into the plans wholeheartedly, though, because I was desperate. I'm glad I did because I might not be here right now, I might be in a mental institution.)

I would be curious to see a study on different countries to see if it's universal or that people in America go nuts more than others when it comes to affairs, since mistresses are common in a lot of different countries but it doesn't "interfere" with the family unit, so to speak.

But anyway, bunch of random thoughts on a night when I'm having trouble sleeping due to the problems of others--not MB related, LOL!!

Charlotte

About 2 weeks ago I went to an NBA game with a buddy of mine. At halftime they had one of those promotional gigs sponsored by a local radio station. A random fan had been selected for an opportunity to win $79,000 if he could hit a shot from behind the half-court line (which is of course a highly unlikely event even for a pro).

The guy was short and chunky, completely unathletic, and could barely dribble the ball standing still. My buddy and I joked that it would be a miracle if he could manage to launch the ball with adequate distance to even reach the basket's general vicinity. Heck, I could probably barely do it and I am a decathelete compared to this dude's physical prowess.

The guy got a running start, hurled the ball UNDER-HANDED toward the basket, and nearly fell over after release. The ball arc'ed on a perfect trajectory, at a perfect distance, and SWISHED THROUGH THE BASKET--NOTHING BUT NET!!! The crowd erupted--I have never seen such a miracle shot! I will guarantee you that Mr. Miracle couldn't repeat the feat with 5000 additional chances and probably couldn't even hit the rim with 100 more opportunities...

Exceptions exist to every rule and I'm sure every AM participant believes "they are the exception!" at the outset and during the honeymoon phase. IT IS A REALLY, REALLY BAD BET...

Thndr,

Yes, I would like to view the passages you have, however I really have given up the faith. Not that I think God is a genie and that we ask him for stuff and he delivers, but I just can't understand how he would bless ExH and OW with a baby after they each broke their wedding vows. I really can't understand how they are being rewarded for this...

Bitter pill,

Thanks! I do hope you are right.

I've always been one to speak what was on my mind no matter how far fetched it is. After you hear this you all will probably think I need to be committed, but here goes...

I am having a VERY hard time moving on because I resent the fact that OW got what I should have had. She got the baby, the H, the M, the lifestyle. She gets to grow old with someone. They did everything wrong and they get it all. I did right and I get the crap.

That being said, if I knew 100% that their M would fail, I would move on in an instant. Not that I would hope for him to come back to me, just to know that he got what he deserved in the end. I'm sure all BS's would love to have that guarantee.

I try and do stuff, go out with friends etc. But at the end of the day, ExH is stil on my mind. Nothing I seem to do to move on is working...

I feel like they are laughing at me, knowing I'm alone, I wanted more kids, and they have what I wanted. Trust me, I put on a good front when I have to see ExH. He thinks I have moved on. If he only knew...

I just think he will be the minority that makes the M work...

Catgirl--If you have lost your faith (I prefer to think of it as temporarily misplaced!), that adds a new wrinkle into things. I am, without apology, a political conservative and a Christian. I'm not ashamed of this, nor afraid to speak up about it. Having said that, I'm also quick to acknowledge that both political AND religious "conversations" on this site can very quickly degenerate into verbal brawls. Many of the mudfights that get threads locked down around here manage to incorporate one or both of those subjects.

I am 61 years old. In my long and checkered life, I have done more than "lost" my faith. I did my level best to drive a stake through its heart, without regard to the consequences to myself or anyone else. And yet, it--and I--remain. So I feel I can understand a lot of what's going on in your head. But if I tried to enter into that sort of discussion with you here, disbelievers and skeptics would pop out of the woodwork like magic...at least if things ran true to course. It would be counterproductive for you, unpleasant for me, and useless for them, to try to have a discussion on faith and fairness in that environment.

So I'll offer you an alternative--my email address is sportkanga@yahoo.com, and you are welcome to contact me there if you like. You are struggling with the two topics that I have wrestled with the most...although technically I should probably say that they have wrestled with me, and were on top most of the time, too! :RollieEyes: If not uniquely qualified to talk with you on losing faith and life's unfairness, I'm certainly adequately qualified for it! And I will tell you that it's better to walk in faith than to stumble around in the dark.
Whatever you decide, my prayers are with you.

tl

Catgirl, I am probably one of the most pathetic and sympathetic on here.

But COME ONE girl... WAKE YOUR SELF UP.

Yes, what was done is awful. Yes you are getting the short end of the stick, but I would engage you into thinking it's your ATTITUDE and lack of commitment to yourself that keeps you stuck in this black hole of a space.

WAKE UP... This is YOUR life TODAY. Go make of it what you want. You have two legs, you have a heart, you understand right from wrong, go out and live LIFE. If I can do it, ANYONE can do it.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, go volunteer at a food bank, go volunteer where people are hurting and you can feel good about yourself. Get out and talk to G-d, but do something that gets you out of your STINKIN THINKIN.

I am so deeply sorry you are struggling, but today you can't change what has happened, what is happening. Find the serenity prayer and read it. Make a wish list for yourself. Write a gratitude list. Anything that will bring the focus to you and not on them and certainly not what you DON'T have.

Show your kids what to do when life is unfair, show them how to build a new life. If I can do it, so CAN YOU.

Don't be bitter. I lost, I lost my beautiful house, I lost money, I lost ALOT... But I found myself and I found my G-d.

Please stop this and just move forward one minute at a time. Shake your head when negative thoughts creep in, force them out, pray them to be taken away, but wallowing into it will have you be a bitter old lonely person and they you still lose.

We may not get what we want, but G-d gives us what we need. And maybe you need this in your life so you can learn about what you are made of and how you can fight through this and learn to smell the coffee again.

You don't know this for sure and as mentioned earlier the chances are low that they will make "until death".

And Cat, you can grow old with someone too.

(2nd)And...FWIW, a man who doesn't want kids will CRINGE at the first wake up call at 1am, then 3am, then 5am....

It's not all ice cream and cupcakes.

I know you've heard it before but you MUST get out of this mindset!! Find a mantra and stick to it!! Something along the lines of: "I AM important and I WILL have a good life. They have NO power over me." Then...when you start to think about THEM, just say your mantra...over and over and over again.

"She got the baby." So? Babies don't guarantee a rosy outcome.

"She got the lifestyle, the man and the marriage. She gets to grow old with someone."

You don't know that any of this will happen. There are NO guarantees in life.

They did not "get it all" and you did not "get the crap." You need to change your way of thinking. Yeah, I know, easier said than done but you are NEVER going to get there if you keep wallowing in THEIR pig sty.


Would you really? Then take that and run with it right now because 100% of ANYTHING in this lifetime is not guaranteed.



You must ACTIVELY purge him from your soul. Get a mantra and repeat it EVERY time you start to go there.



I doubt they give you much thought at all. You are out of their picture-the X. You have been x-ed out of their world, with the exception of dealing with the kids. Don't let them continue to live in YOUR world, it is not healthy for you and it is putting a lot of stress on your system that may end up backfiring. We can take a LOT of stress but it can come back on us in spades. I know--I blew my thyroid out because of stress. Don't blow yours out, too.



Yeah, and you might be right. But again, there are NO guarantees in this life. Except that we are all going to kick the bucket eventually.

Charlotte

Good posts Charlotte and Queenie.

Cat, have you read THE SECRET? Your negative energy is attracting more negative energy which is going to put you in a death spiral of sorts. Please try to get out of this phase and get to a better, positive place. You will then attract others who have positive energy as well. Only then will you begin to get beyond this.

I once worked in a company with a lot of older salesmen who had been with the company a long time, and who had made a lot of money over the years in the technology field. The trend was that many of them had left their families and married younger women, many of who were secretaries in the company. It seememd to be everywhere. They all wore gold Rolex watches, drove Beamers etc. But guess what? Most of them drank themselves silly and didn't seem all that happy. Here they were fast approaching retirement age but they couldn't retire. They all had second families with little children and young wives who had gotten used to and liked the jewelry, cars, houses etc. Not a fun position to be in, so keep that in mind. Your ex will probably be in the same sitch someday. You can then look at him and be glad that you can retire and have fun. He'll still be raising kids and having to worry about college etc.

I am not sure I understand this. So...you disagree with the demonstrated facts by asking for a recount? Please explain...


The purpose in posting these FACTS is to show that the WS is living a fantasy in the AM--one that very often does not last. It is not to advise the BS to "hold on forever" or not move on with their life. Most WSs seek out the BS at some point--whether reconciliation happens or not is usually up to the BS at that point and is related MORE to the length of the A and the BS's mindset rather than to whether the WS's AM "succeeds" or not because few AM truly do succeed. [From "Private Lies" by Dr. Frank Pittman]




"Falling in love" proves NOTHING. Vulnerable, needy people (the fodder of affairs) can fall in love with a billy goat. There is NO CORRELATION between "falling in love" and the long-term success of an affair-marriage. FIL is very predictably TEMPORARY.

Well, I believe the numbers are outdated, so yes...I demand a recount!

I don't want to even argue about it, there's just no point.

Charlotte

Thank you, Chai. I would like to read that book sometime. Maybe I'll have a chance on Spring Break.

I like you post...you could make a sitcom out of that!! Or another nighttime soap opera, based on MEN instead of women, LOL!

Or is there one already? Unknown. I only watch 24 and that is IT!!

LOL!

Charlotte

Wow, I am just here to give support, I don't think there is any advice I can give.

I'm sorry you are questioning your faith. There is one lady here, I remember reading, (but can not remember the exact post) who used to pray nightly for (first herself and fam) but her xh and ow.

She said she prayed something like...
"Dear God; Bless (ow and xh) so that they are happy and good things happen for them....you know, God, that I don't mean this, right now, but please help move me to the point to where I can really mean this..."

...Now that is what I call a woman of faith. I remember her post all the time.

Chai,

I do have the book The Secret. I've been reading it on and off for a couple of months, about 1/4 of the way through it. I'm not sure I buy into that. I have been visualizing something for a long time now, not ExH related at all, and it doesn't seem to be working. It just seems too good to be true...

Also, supposedly, OW left her H because he didn't make enough $$ for her. ExH did, thus why she latched onto him. She likes VERY expensive things. So I'm sure ExH will be working a lot in the next several years to keep her living standards up there.

Barbie,

I am not at all ready to wish ExH and OW well. I have nothing but hatred for them right now. Don't know if I ever will want them to have a good life.

Discrepancy was probably due to a hanging chad