OH...saying this gently, but it could be that you've been enabling him too, by putting up with this.

History speaks for itself, and the common denominator in all those breakups is him and the fact that the women left him, not the other way around. There's a reason for that. He needs to see that and stop kidding himself if he ever wants to improve himself.

Perhaps he needs to take a look at his past relationships and be honest with himself. Bottom line...would he want to be married to someone like him? What does he bring to the relationship? What does he consistently do that makes it worth your time and money to keep him around? Something for both of you to ponder...is your life better with or without him? That is the question...

It is fairly certain that his life is better with you, but it has to work both ways, you know?

I have no idea what to do with this little nugget of info. I thought about starting a thread over in GQII but then I have to explain myself all over again.

H's EA was conducted mostly with one, and then later two, secret gmail accounts. Part of the purging after D-day was closing down both accounts. Yes, I verified that they were closed. He once opened another Gmail account at his job and I asked him about it and he needed it because everyone at work was on Google Calendar. I checked and he had only a Google account, not a Gmail account so he was on the up-and-up about that.

This trip he's taking is triggering and I've explained why in this thread.

He has to print his airline boarding pass/itinerary and our printer isn't working. I suggested he go to the library to do it. So he thought that was a good idea. Now, I know he has a Yahoo acct--he was using it when he was working and didn't want to use company email for personal. He doesn't use that very much anymore. I have the password for that. He also has an email account through our home ISP and I no longer have the password for that, but I spot check his computer and have seen nothing.

I can't put a keylogger on because he has a Mac w/ an older operating system and I'd need access to the computer to read the reports.

So he just emailed me (I'm in my office today) and he said he was going to send the itineary, etc, to his gmail acct and print it off there. HUH? Did he mean Yahoo? Probably not. I think he suspects I have the password to that acct.

So I'm wondering if I just hold on to this little nugget for now and try to check his email on the computer tonight to see if in fact he forwarded the itinerary to a Gmail account or do I just email him back and say

"Gmail account?"

I'm sitting here just STEWING over this "gmail" comment on the email he sent to me.

Why are you even worrying about it? Have you or have you not made a decision on what you'll accept? This is irrelevant because if he does come back, it will have to be as a new person.

Because getting sandbagged by another affair--particularly if he's been going behind my back this whole time to set it up with her to meet him out there---is really humiliating. And how much am I to believe then that there has been NC since Oct 06 when he said there was last contact.

It's not going to make a difference in whether or not I take him back (in fact, it would go all that much more against him) but the last thing I need is this last little shred to my dignity.

OH, I hear you, and I'm sorry it's rough today. When I had moments where I was angry with the new information, I'd ask myself, is this really new information? Or information that I already knew, and finally feel safe or detached enough today to acknowledge?

I take it that you haven't decided on an action about this comment today, like deciding whether to look further or asking your H to clarify for you, or something else. Do you have the information to make an informed decision? Maybe you want to take a little time to think on it? He may or may not remember what he's told you and what he hasn't.

I'm not going to say anything right now. I am checking the Yahoo acct to see if it shows up there. I have no idea why he'd say "gmail" instead of "yahoo" unless it was a slip.

I'm going to check the boarding pass when I get home to see if the header tells me what acct it went to.

I will check his Apple Mail acct (his main email) to see if I can find out where he mailed it to himself (though he could have gotten better about covering his tracks)

I could sandbag him as he gets on the plane tomorrow.

I could continue to say nothing and check his phone's message box while he's away to see if I can snag a tell tale phone message (I have that passcode).

I could cancel his return flight. I could change the locks.

You could:

Buy a new printer!

They are only 50 bucks.

Hey, here's a letter I could write to him that he could read on the plane:

Dear Unemployed most likely wayward spouse:

I've decided to quit my job. It doesn't pay much and it's beneath me anyway. I gave my two week notice today and as of the end of March, will be out of a job.

It's your turn to figure out how to support us.

Have a nice 3 week boondoggle.

I loved it!

LOL! Actually there is the seed of a plan there. You can just stop doing certain things that you resent. It takes guts, but you really can just stop.

I would still talk to an attorney before changing the locks (or doing anything else that you might regret). If you decide that you need to leave, doing it one way vs another can make a big difference both for you and the kids.

OH, and others, I feel sad and frustrated about the direction this thread has taken.

You arrived here Judging Blaming and Condemning your H, while acknowledging that this habit of yours was a problem for your M.

You continued to JB&C him here, and explained why this was justified in your case - if only people knew what you'd been through, surely everyone would agree.

After a few pages, others joined in JB&C-ing him.

I'm pretty sure none of this will help your M.

Maybe he is a terrible H, beyond redemption, and you should divorce him. The Divorce board would be a good place for support there.

But I refuse to write him off because I haven't heard from him because HE ISN'T HERE!

Sure he's done some dreadful things. I'd like to think he's a good guy in a bad place.

Maybe your treatment of him is part of the reason he's 'there'.

Read your posts - you still judge him.

OH I don't mean to beat you up and I know first-hand how much AOs, SDs and DJs hurt.

I do mean to look for ways to help your M. If you've given up - fine. Quite understandable.

If not - well, from what I read here, there are still some things you could do about you that might work. I think you know what they are.

Good post. We need to be brought back to reality once in a while.

I might put more credence in 5/6's posts if I saw him applying these values to all posters across the board.

I came here wanting to learn about MB and myself.

It's a work in progress.

I'm not perfect.

I've readily stepped up to the plate to own my issues.

Cat, you are the one who has repeatedly reminded me NOT to be a doormat and you have chastized me several times for making excuses for an H you have deemed as abusive.

So please people--apply your value judgements equally across the board.

And 5/6--as you said--he's not here and I am. That does mean you only have one third of the story (my side, his side, the truth). That doesn't mean that he just gets a free pass.

OH, it can be a tough balancing act. Respecting the person even when you don't respect the actions. It gets easier, I promise. I look forward to when you get to Alanon. You get to know folks in person who see what you see. And see what you don't see! It's such a wierd but cool thing. My sponsor told me that she didn't like how my then DD11 was talking to me, that I needed to set clearer boundaries with her. It wasn't until I set the boundaries and then DD11 pushed back that I even saw how they were being crossed! Such an interesting thing!

If I understand 5/6, the problem is when we look at the person and see a person being mean instead of a person being sick. I've heard many times to picture the person with the word "sick" on their head, to remind you that they didn't choose to have this disease, this compulsion. To remind you to treat them with compassion and respect and dignity. Including not protecting them from their consequences.

OH, that wasn't a dis at you. It was a reminder to be completely honest with yourself as you go on your journey, so that you don't make mistakes, especially the kind that come from misplaced reasoning.

If you read my thread from the beginning, you'll see how misplaced my hatred for my H was. Yeah, he's got a lot of issues. But no, he's not abusive (I thought he was). No, he's not even mean (I thought he was). It was all about MY filter. Now, I am strong enough to look at him and see HIS issues, which guided what he does, AND see my contributions to his issues.

Because I was finally able to admit my role in his unhappiness. I may make myself out to be a saint here, it's human nature. But I have a lot of faults. And I can be honest enough now to look at myself with a critical eye. It's taken a long time. But I did it cos I knew my marriage nor I would ever improve if I didn't.

It's all about humility, OH. Are you humble enough to look honestly at yourself?

Truthfully, what I've seen you write about your H, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. BUT, it is possible that you have had a hand in creating the H you see. That's all he's trying to say. Honestly, I wouldn't EVER take or keep a man who could live with NOT having a job. Sorry, but true. Men are preprogrammed to care for their family. A man who doesn't has a serious flaw.

I just don't want you to go ahead with this without some serious soul-searching, so you don't end up hating yourself 20 years from now. What about IC?

Ears: I am planning both Alanon and Alateen (for the two older) while he's away. I thought the first meeting/meetings would be easier to arrange.

Cat; I agree with what you are saying and I don't think it's a 'dis' at me. And while I'm far from perfect and have freely admitted here what I knew to be my faults and have freely admitted discovering numerous new ones since coming here, I try to reflect on others' posts by applying the same value system. I don't see that with 5/6's posts so it's hard for me not to discount what's said in them.

And yes, his not having a job is a huge issue. And his constant AOs and DJs are a huge issue. Now 5/6 could come back to post that I might be creating my problems. And I freely admit that I have. How have I done that? Well, thanks to all the helpful people on this board, I realize that my universal inability and reluctance to set and apply consistent boundaries has got me to where I am today. I am the consummate enabler.

I don't want to be told how I'm the cause of all H's problems. I am not. Have I excaberated (sp?) some (perhaps many) situations? Most likely so. But we didn't meet and start dating until he was 30. I think the mold was fairly well formed by then.

You know the old adage about watching the way a man treats his mother? Well, H is always nice to her on the surface but nitpicks and nitpicks and nit picks and fault finds and is convinced that everything she says has double and triple meaning that after a 15 minute phone conversation with her (where he interrupts constantly), he is seething.

Sure wish I had recognized that one earlier.

I firmly believe that his past history with women is yet again repeating itself with me, only I was too stupid or timid to do something about it until now.

The letter is written. It's in his luggage. It takes a firm stand. If he calls and says "let's discuss when I get home" my answer will be "all my discussion is in that letter. The ball is in your court."

Cat, that's why I'm glad to have you as a mentor. Because I still see my H's actions as punishing and yes, mean at times. I'm working on it

OH, I was thinking about what 5/6 said, and there's another huge freedom, too, when you separate the person and the actions. Iam thinking that you may well already be experiencing this, what do you think? Plan B separation protects your good memories, too. It was so cool to read you talk about your good times, in the Plan B letter. So awesome that no one can ever take that away from you.

OH, in Alanon, you learn the 3 Cs - you didn't Cause it, you can't Control it, and you can't Cure it. His actions are his to own.

I could be off, but I don't think 5/6 meant that you alone cause the situations. We are 50% of the creation of the conditions where these things can happen. Just like if we aren't wearing a seatbelt, we can get hurt in a crash. Not that not wearing the seatbelts causes car crashes. They happen or don't regardless, and we get the knowledge here and IRL to protect ourselves if they come.

If I understand, you are still feeling a lot of pain in these situations, and continuing to practice what you learn here replaces that pain with freedom. That's already starting, right?