Can a mod please delete Jilted's post from my thread?

Ok someone please tell me if this is a red flag:

I emailed my WW this:

Have you ever told me that you think OM is a piece of crap for doing what he did? Taking advantage of a vulnerable married women while in a marriage himself? Instead of being a good man and stopping it from happening? You have never expressed to me how you feel about OM and I need to know the truth.

She replied:

No I haven’t said that about OM because I don’t feel that way. If I did I would be saying the same thing about myself. I don’t blame him for my mistakes. You know I still have feelings for him. You also know that I am trying to work on these feelings.


Please someone tell me what this means???

Is this part of fog? Since she doesnt think he is an absolute moron? Because they spent 2 1/2 years in EA and 1 1/2 PA?

Yes! It feels too good to be wrong!? They don't even think of it as an affair. It's a new relationship that was meant to be.

If she does come out of the fog, she'll probably think she was crazy.

I just sent her an email that said I will not be sloppy seconds any longer, and when she decides I am #1 to her she can contact me. I will not play this game of not living together anymore.

Husband4life

I have just spent some time catching up on your considerable thread and just wanted to make some comment, good or bad. First of all, I am glad you finally got your thread moved here where I knew you would get considerable responses by some very savvy vets.

I cringed quite a bit as I read your posts about how convinced you were that the A had actually ended. I saw just the opposite merely by the fact that your WW prefered to be sepearated. These are not the actions of a WW whose had an epiphany and is now Godly sorrowful for her her actions. They are in fact, just the opposite.

I sorta kept hounding you about 16 pages ago about who was the friend that she kept disappearing with for three days at a time. I always had my suspicion, but you never answered that Q. The Q was posed because I always believed from the beggining that during those 3 day absences she was not with some mytical friend, but rather with OM.

Now you have found evidence in your recently vacated appt, that OM was there and had sex with your WW. You continue to deny the overwhelming evidence in front of your very own eyes, because you cling vehemently to Plan HOPE.

Do you now understand that MC is a complete waste of time and money while your WW continues her A behind your back. Your MC is as duped as you are. Because as a Wayward, if their lips are moving, they are lying!

I say to you H4L, you are continuing to dupe yourself. And because your WW is so aware about this aspect of your personality, she will continue to lie and cheat, because you are so easy to cheat on. Harsh statement, but did you hear clearly what I just said?
You are easy. And she knows that!

I Q'd you several times about who and why she would disappear with for several days at a time and you skipped right over that, as if in denial, and never answered that. So now you KNOW what I suspected all along. The A was not over, just driven futher underground so as to hide it from you. She is eating cake in much larger proportions than the Queen of France, who ultimately lost her head.

You should at the very least, contaact OMW and at least warn her that the A continues unabatted.

So young into the M. What it is you hope to come out with on the other side o this?

I would only hope you move on, and find the real women of your dreams, who could remain loyal and faithful forever.

Sounds tough, I know, but reality has to sink in somewhere. If Dr Harley could save this, I would really have a lot more respect for him. But I doubt it.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Your wife is in an affair. That's what this means.

Why do you believe her at all when she says she's trying to get her feelings in order?
Why are you bringing up relationship talk at all?

I guess I just feel that since they have been good friends or even more for about 3 years that there will be a long withdrawl period. Im just being patient and me and the OMW are watchin every move to make sure NC is in place.

H4L,

Listen to the previous posters please. Your chances going to go down with you being "patient". What you need is focus and your focus is not correct. You are NOT doing plan A, you are not even really aware of what Plan B is and you are in fact lowering your chances of saving this marriage.

She has all she needs right now. You supporting her and being her safety net, and OM meeting all of her physical and emotional needs. Perfect. If she keeps it up for a long time, which she will with no changes in the situation, then be the time the affair dies and it will, she will have no love for you, and YOU won't have any love for her. THEREFORE...the marriage will be over.

If you want to save this marriage you need to play to win, not pacify your own insecurities.

Playing to win is: Starting with Plan A

1. Set your boundaries and maintain them.

2. Do not talk about relationships with her.

3. Since she is gone, if she calls be civil, if she sees you be nice. If she ignores you. let it slide.

4. Pay attention to your own feelings with regard to love. If you feel you are starting to lose the determination to save this marriage and your feelings for her are waning, go to plan B.

5. Plan B is not contact and it not meant as punishment, it is meant to buy you more time for the affair to end. It may before your love for her leaves. Plan B slows the lose of love via no conatct.

6. In neither plan are you to try and educate her, brow beat her, nor even discuss how she feels. Let her bring up any such conversations.

Son, the email you sent to her was a step back in your attempts to save this marriage. You will not receive an intelligent or useful information from her until the A ends and it has not ended. There is no problem with you going to a counselor now, but it is a complete waste of money for you two to be in MC now. She is eating cake and enjoying it very much.

You keep thinking words will help, but it only actions that indicate anything. The fact that you have not filed divorce is the ONLY real indicator she has that you might love her. Your words are like water on a ducks back.

Time to quite talking, develope and hone your plan, and then execute it. A good plan has milestones, evaluation points, time lines and decision points. I don't see any of that from you yet.

It is time you got serious and learned to play to win. Right now you are just playing around and incase you haven't figured it out yet, we know you have done nothing serious about this, and therefore she KNOWS you have done nothing serious about it. Hence she proceeds with impunity.

Time to change up the game and play to win.

God Bless,

JL

H4L

It still seems that you are denying she is continuing the affair. My H denied it for ages whilst mine was still going on. I was dropping not very subtle hints, looking back I think I was almost begging that H stopped it. Your wife seems to behaving in a silmilar way. Either that or she is just being exceptionally cruel.

Admit to yourself that it is continuing and get your plan A totally straight. Write down every detail. As JL said:

A good plan has milestones, evaluation points, time lines and decision points.



Look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself she is still having the A and recite your plan over and over.

ST

Ok, thanks for all the help. I am going to set boundaries but I do have a question.

How do you KNOW the A is still going on? The simple fact that we cannot live together?

I am not angry that you still think its going on, but want to know what signs specifically tell you that.

Let me tell you what I am doing to ensure it is not happening.
I am in contact with the OMW and we have both checked cell phone details to ensure there is no text or phone calls. The OMW has blocked both my W's cell and work number from the OM's phone. Myspace and email are checked on a daily basis by both myself and the OMW. The OM is living with his parents who will not support him in the A. The OMW has told the OM that if there are any signs of the A continueing, the OM will never see his kids again, and the OM's family has told him they will not have him around for holidays or any other events with any other woman than his W. The OM wakes up every morning and gets to the OMW's house by 5:00, lays in bed until 6:15 when she gets up and take the kids to school. OM then goes to work and is home when he gets off, stays until 11:00 that night and leaves to go to his parents house. A text is sent by the OMW to the OM's parents when he leaves to ensure he arrives at the right time.

This sure does seem like a huge amount of work if the A is still going on. Tell me what you guys think.

APs love a huge amount of work to maintain the secrecy because that's what makes it so exciting. That's half the thrill.

I am in contact with the OMW and we have both checked cell phone details to ensure there is no text or phone calls.
They could easily have bought throw-away phones that both of you have no knowledge of.
The OMW has blocked both my W's cell and work number from the OM's phone.
See above.
Myspace and email are checked on a daily basis by both myself and the OMW.
With a keylogger? Because it takes a whole 30 seconds to set up a secondary email address or myspace persona.
The OM is living with his parents who will not support him in the A.
So he doesn't bring her there.
The OMW has told the OM that if there are any signs of the A continueing, the OM will never see his kids again, and the OM's family has told him they will not have him around for holidays or any other events with any other woman than his W.
Threats like this mean absolutely nothing if they're still getting their drug through each other. How many people throw away careers, homes, families, just to keep the drug flowing?
The OM wakes up every morning and gets to the OMW's house by 5:00, lays in bed until 6:15 when she gets up and take the kids to school. OM then goes to work and is home when he gets off, stays until 11:00 that night and leaves to go to his parents house. A text is sent by the OMW to the OM's parents when he leaves to ensure he arrives at the right time.
And this will last how long? Don't count on it. Does he also meet her for lunch every day?

APs love a huge amount of work to maintain the secrecy because that's what makes it so exciting. That's half the thrill.

I am in contact with the OMW and we have both checked cell phone details to ensure there is no text or phone calls.
They could easily have bought throw-away phones that both of you have no knowledge of.
This is not possible as we still have a joint bank account and she makes no cash withdrawls, checks I can see who they are payable too. I have thought about this but I know about all the money and where its exactly going so she wouldnt be able to pay for it. I work at the bank we use, if that helps!
The OMW has blocked both my W's cell and work number from the OM's phone.
See above.
See above.
Myspace and email are checked on a daily basis by both myself and the OMW.
With a keylogger? Because it takes a whole 30 seconds to set up a secondary email address or myspace persona.
I am very computer savy and have a keylogger installed and have had for quiet some time.
The OM is living with his parents who will not support him in the A.
So he doesn't bring her there.
Not sure I understand what you mean?
The OMW has told the OM that if there are any signs of the A continueing, the OM will never see his kids again, and the OM's family has told him they will not have him around for holidays or any other events with any other woman than his W.
Threats like this mean absolutely nothing if they're still getting their drug through each other. How many people throw away careers, homes, families, just to keep the drug flowing?
This is true and I understand your point, but he is going completely out of his way to work on things and they live about 45 minutes apart so it would be noticeable time on both sides if they met somewhere.
The OM wakes up every morning and gets to the OMW's house by 5:00, lays in bed until 6:15 when she gets up and take the kids to school. OM then goes to work and is home when he gets off, stays until 11:00 that night and leaves to go to his parents house. A text is sent by the OMW to the OM's parents when he leaves to ensure he arrives at the right time.
And this will last how long? Don't count on it. Does he also meet her for lunch every day?
Again, the lunch thing is out of the question.

Ok, so here is where Im at after the MB site break:

We are at a point where we both agree that temporary seperation is best. I want to talk about things and come to a conclusion, and she wants to wait and see how things pan out in her mind.

I have a hard time understanding how she feels and why she feels the way she does. She said it upsets her when I want to talk about things and I see advice all over this site not to. I dont know why it is so hard for me, but it just is.

Seperation for me right now is more bearable because I wont be able to hurt her more by wanting to talk about our problems constantly.

I hope this works...

Yeah, you won't hurt her affair any more.

meh

I think I really dont understand women and never will.

My WW can give up one of the most important things in marriage but now takes it all away from me. Won't live with me and doesn't know what she wants. She has stated that the one reason she is still considering working things out is the fact that I am willing to forgive her for what she has done. Is this ok or should she automatically feel more than this? I am having trouble understanding how long all of this will take. I hear it takes as long as the affair happened, to get over it. Well the PA was 1 1/2 years and EA for much longer possibly.

History here on MB have shown that more often than not that temporary separation = ongoing affair and PERMANENT separation.
If you are apart how can your WW demonstrate total and transparent honesty that's required to show her desire to end the affair?

While your WW is not a prisoner and you cannot stop her going.... please tell me you are not leaving the family home?

Sorry but I don't trust those 'we need to be away from each other to work things out". Does it make real sense? If you are apart how can you talk and discover what each of you need and to have the other meet those needs? IMPOSSIBLE.
Now if violence was involved then yes ok there would be a reason. Just make sure YOU don't leave the marriage home.

If she leaves you it's a bit harder for her to present YOU as the problem. But she will try anyway. Understand that

You must understand that this woman you are dealing with is not YOUR wife. She is a liar... a cheat ... an adulterer ... who will do ANYTHING... say ANYTHING .... to get her way.
She will smile at you... agree with you ... pretend to be working with you if you only be so "NICE" and do what's SHE wants you to do because don't you know .... its for the best. Well HER best interests anyway.

Why do I know that and why am I so sure? Well I won't sugar it coat for you.. its because I was exactly like your wife to my husband and family. I do feel you are being manipulated right now. If your ww wanted to work on the M right now she would.. I don't feel she does.

The longer you are apart the wider the gap grows between you.
Have you considered this may actually be her plan? Maybe she wants out and hasn't the gumption to tell you. It is such a short period to be married and to have an affair.

While I love marriages to recover and push that pretty hard maybe too hard at times... YOU may need to consider what you see your future is with your WW.

However I will say if she was willing to work on the M it would probably recover if she put in place those things to ensure you felt you were safe to continue in the M as you do say you would be willing to forgive and go on with the M.

Please consider your options here... thought about getting the Harleys involved? May be money well spent to find out if your WW is just leading you on.

Has the affair ended? Has she ended contact with OM or is she still cake-eating?

We are not living together right now, so I cannot truly confirm that NC is in place. She has given me complete access to all email, myspace, phone records. I also do snooping of my own and have found nothing yet. I have been in contact with the OM's family as well and they are giving me confirming words that NC is in place as well.

We had our problems while married, with me not giving her enough attention and she has stated that she has wanted out for a while. She did say though that she never realized how much I do love her and care for her because I didnt show it (I agree with this). I know its certainly not an excuse for what she did but I do see why she wanted out, she just never confronted me about it and I didnt do anything on my own to make it better.