I've actually been reading on the MB site more than looking at training routines. Been talking to my husband about things rather than hiding them and journaling. I trained twice this week rather than the usual 5x.

We also have children that require a fair amount of our attention.

I understand your point, tst but your vision or my division of time isn't accurate. Was that a DJ perhaps?

He doesn't want to throw up. He wants to help. I asked.

I'm also asking him to start his own thread but he does not want to. I'm here, so you'll have to read from me instead.

What tst says is right on the money. You dispute it because you choose to keep the blinders on. It's still about you.

It's easy to come to this forum, almost fun isn't it?

Blah, blah, blah,........ Your acknowledging exactly what I said. Pleanty of time for other activities, NO time to read and implement the MB program.



Found LOTS of time to be with OM even with those same children around! That one doesn't work...... just another excuse!



If you'll read SAA, HNHN, FILSIL then you'll learn that DJ's are Love Busters that cause you to loose LOVE FOR YOUR SPOUSE.
I'm not your spouse!
Yes, I meant to :twobyfour: you!!!!!


Ya, I'm sure his is excited everytime he hears you are still going through withdrawals for OM.

I hope you pull through the fog at some point and get busy with some actual, productive, actions instead of excuses.

If your husband hits the anger stage of grief and you are still making excuses and haven't found time to do anything other than what YOU want to do...... You may need to find another place to live at that point, because the thudding sound you will hear is going to be your rear hitting the edge of the curb.

Sparky...

I KNOW you don't want to hear it, but there is much TRUTH to what tst said to you...It stung you and it's obvious because your answer was very defensive...

It's HARD to take a very honest inventory of yourself...I understand...Hey, I was a long time attention/approval junkie myself, so I do get it...

What I see is that it was VERY important to you for others to know that you are a body builder and have been in magazines and on websites...Is it fair to say that that stuff is important to you because how others view you is of great importance to you? That the opinions of others is how you've determined how to feel about you over the years? That your looks are what tell you that you are worthy? I ask, because that was true for me for many, many years...I think it's a wayward trait actually... Makes it very easy to succumb to FALSE admiration...you know, like the kind you get in an affair...

What do you think?

Mrs. W

I guess I'm not seeing what some of you are.

Sprakster and Spartan are spending far more time together now it seems. She's not working out even half as much as she used to -- and working out is a huge part of her life from what I've read. She's instead spending more time with her husband. She is working with her H to find an alterntive to the gym. They are looking for alternatives together. They have been to the movies, a restaurant, bought new bedding, go to church, are filling on the ENs questionairres, Sparky called Spartan when she was going through a really rough moment instead of falling back toward the OM...

If she hasn't read the books does that mean she is being selfish and is not investing in the marriage?

This is what I've seen, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding her efforts. She's letting her H know where she is at all times. She's providing transparency. Sparkle is reading the Bible. She's working full-time. She's taking care of her two boys, one of who has special needs and who requires extra attention, she's spending more time than ever with her H, she did NC, she's withdrawing from OM (as we all know this happens) she's reading MB, she's posting on MB, and she's trying.

Sparkster, how are you spending your free time?

And what did the ENQ reveal?

PLEASE!

L4, why don't you get out the powder and pamper her bottom too.

With all due respect L4, you and Sparky are pretty close friends from what I understand...It may be tough for you to be objective because of that...dunno...

Also, you aren't all that far into the recovery process yourself...You guys should be mindful that you are both serial cheaters and be VERY careful not to enable each other...

JMHO...

Mrs. W

Well I'm not sure about the ENQ but looking4 this post reveals a LOT of fog on your part.

Around these parts we call this ENABLING. You are not far enough along in this process to KNOW and your discernment is a little OFF.

I suggest you shut your pie hole and listen and learn from MrsW and TST. You and Sparky would do very well to listen to those former waywards who have totally defogged and have recovered their marriages.

I'm SO thrilled that sparky now only has 40% the chnce she did of "bumping" into OM. :RollieEyes:

I was trying to encourage her to keep doing the good things that she is doing.

She has a long way to go. Among the 2x4s she's getting (and deserves), recognizing positives can't hurt, can it? I'm not encouraging bad behavior am I? I didn't say don't read the books did I?

I also did not assume that she's spending all of her free time researching and pining for body building. I don't know how she spends her free time which is why I asked her before jumping to that conclusion.

I agree she is in a fog. She herself has admitted it. It also sounds like she's fragile so while she needs to look directly in the reality mirror and see the bad and the ugly, if there's a glimmer of good, can we see that too, to encourage her to keep looking into that reality mirror?

Just wanted to share some positives I was seeing, hoping they woulnd't be overlooked.

Remember, along with her affair, perhaps they never dealt with his affair where their neighbor lived in her marital bed for 2 months and established a relationship with her kids. The FOM lived across the street, is married now, but is still trying to contact Spartan. They have a special needs boy whom they are also trying to help.

They have plenty of stress in addition to her reprehensible affair.

So yes, I wanted to try to give a bit of encouragement. I by no means think she's done with trying to help her H heal nor is she doing all she can to recover. I was tyring to support what she has done in light of everything else.

As I said, she and her H have a long way to go.

So much for my opinion. I'll step aside and let y'all work on her.

I completely agree with BK.

These two WWs would do well to look to those who have RECOVERED for HOW to make this work instead of making excuses as to WHY they can't do what is suggested.

MS, tst was a black belt and an instructor at our dojo. He COMPLETELY LEFT it all the day he came home and was willing to give it up forever. Now that we've past the year mark in true recovery, he and I have POJA'd his return to that hobby--where, when, and how much.

tst left it all because he understood that his ENTIRE focus needed to be on our marriage during that first year or more of recovery. Every moment he was at the dojo he saw as missing out on being with me.

He started reading the books immediately and completed ALL those he listed to you in the first WEEKS of recovery. Then he went back through them again and again. He was able to do that because he was not sidetracking himself with his all-important hobbies.

MS, we have 5 kids, so we know what it takes to care for children.

Your excuses don't hold much weight with him or most people here, except maybe other new WWs. That should tell you something.

All I've seen on this thread is someone who indulges in all the drama of missing OM, and isn't really all that interested in learning the program that will help withdrawal end.

MS, why don't you take an honest look at the character of OM. Then ask yourself why you are still missing him? My bet is it's because you still allow yourself to fantasize about OM in some way.

You are right on the money with everything that you've said. Absolutely true.....

Yes, it can, because MS uses the few positive steps she takes as a "see all that I'm doing" justification instead of looking at all that she COULD AND SHOULD be doing. And your posts encourage and support that kind of thinking.

It doesn't help her recover her marriage in any way.





Well, actually, yes.

You both would do your marriages good to focus on your own threads and your own marriages and invest all you have (time and energy) into them.





But she isn't investing the time doing the things she needs to do to get unfoggy. She has the power to speed this process up. She also has the power to drag it out because pining over OM feels so good, in a very sick kind of way.




See, here's where your own fogginess gets in the way.

First, she isn't "fragile". That statement is LAUGHABLE.

The only reality mirror MS needs to look into is the one that shows her the truth about just how ugly and evil adultery is, the one that shows the demage affairs cause to the family unit that God built. All this "but I'm a good person" stuff just gives a wayward justification to EXPECT something that, right now, she doesn't even deserve.

All that feel good stuff can come later...when there's something to feel good about.




There's been so much positive stroking on this thread I everytime I read it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling that way.

I've avoided posting because I figure the FWS's like tst and Mrs. W might have an impact. But enough is enough. Coddling her isn't going to help her recover her marriage.






See how enabling you are being. You are giving her excuse after excuse to continue feeling entitled and justified.




Don't we all.




You spent a lot of time in this post justifying yourself, and I see much defensiveness on your part as well.

Okay...here a few things that helped me a TON in that area...

1. Stop focusing on yourself by focusing on OTHERS...Namely your spouse...DO what tst has suggested and go to the library, get those books and READ them...

2. Understand that when you place your self-worth into the hands of others you give away all of your own power...Because just as their compliments send you soaring into orbit, any criticism, even perceived criticism also sends you into a downward spiral...those criticisms stay with you longer than the compliments too, don't they? Remind yourself that the "lady in the mirror's" opinion counts the most [thanks to Mel who drilled this into me]...obviously your spouse's opinion counts as well...

3. You have ALWAYS had approval where it counts the MOST...God says that you are "wonderfully and fearfully made"...and made IN HIS IMAGE...Trust God...He NEVER lies...Trust Him like you would a CHAIR...Do you ever doubt that a chair will hold you before you sit down? That's trust...that's faith...When HE says you are worthy and He DID say that and even sent His son to prove it, that means YOU ARE...You always were enough...You just didn't know it...Decide today that you will TRUST God about that...

Hope something I've said helps...

Mrs. W

P.S. Great posts SMB!

Sparky...

Couple things:

Quit the gym TODAY...NOT later...TODAY...There needs to be NO CHANCE of running into OM...NONE...And this is an ACTION that demonstrates to Sparty just how serious you are...

And stop the fantasizing...I know that that is where your head goes when you are having a "bad day"...you go to that place in your head recalling what you still think are "good memories" with OM...NO...EVERYTHING with OM was SICK, TWISTED and WRONG...and AGAINST God's plan...evil, Sparky, that's what it was, pure evil...

Find other ways to "self-soothe"...PRAYER is where you go instead...THAT is what will fill the God sized hole in your heart...He is the only thing that will fill it...Keep your focus there...

Mrs. W

I will cancel my membership today.

Thank you so much for being here for me today. I have felt your words in my heart and I know how right you are.

I do not have my bible here with me today, but I know that there is a scripture where it talks about people pleasing as a sin. I will look that up online after my meeting.

On the way home, I am going to pick up His Needs, Her Needs. I'm not a fast reader, but I will read it front to back. The other books that tst listed will follow. Another book that one of my coworkers suggested is The Power of a Praying Wife. I have a lot to immerse myself in.

{{{{MS}}}}

I know it's not easy to hear what you need to hear sometimes.

I read Power of a Praying Wife and it is a great book. Just don't let it REPLACE your MB book reading.

Sparky,

When I'm not able to use my bible and have need or time to read, I use Bibe Gateway

(((((Sparky)))))

Good girl! And you're very welcome!

Mrs. W

All is not well on the homefront. Lots of AO'S, DJ's and blameshifting on both of our parts.

Spartan insisted last night that "if I hadn't had my affairs, he never would have had his." He has held me to that for over 2 years and it's just cruel. He know that I have fully taken responsibility for my affairs that the damage that they've done.

No, this is not a DJ against him. This is fact. Everything that goes wrong is blamed on either me or the kids. If he's late to work, it's because I didn't get up on time, then it's the kids that made him late. Meanwhile, he's laying on the bed watching TV until the very last minute to leave the house leaving no room for error. Today, he curbed a wheel on the van which dumped his coffee all over him and the steering wheel and it was because "some broad didn't park right".

There are times in my head where I wonder who he would blame for the things that go wrong in his day of the kids ad I weren't around. I know that's an awful way to think, but right now I'm just upset. Even the kids keep their distance from him. They'd rather spend their time with me and that makes him mad. I don't ever say anything negative about their dad to them. They just don't want to be around him and that hurts him I'm sure.

Before we left for work, we got into it about sharing housework and who does what. That escalated into an arguement of "well, I do this and you don't". I asked him if what he wanted was a chores chart with points assigned to them so that we could keep an even score. That's definitely not what I want, but he was angrily spewing the things that he does versus what I do.

He's had a series of things go wrong today. Lost his wedding ring, ruined a wheel on the van, smashed his finger at work and now he is going home without pay for the rest of the day.

I have a business lunch and am taking a female coworker with me that he knows.

Not a good day for either one of us.

I got HNHN's last week and we're taking turns reading chapters. Not very far in it yet but we're working on it.

MS:

Undersatnd one thing. Your here. Spartan has to post his own thread, for me to talk to him. But you get me right now.

He had an A. That was his choice, just like it was YOU Choice.

When Spartan said this: "if I hadn't had my affairs, he never would have had his."

I'm sure you said something along the lines of: Do NOT! That's NOT FAIR! WWWWAAAAAHHHH....!!!!

Your right, your not responsible for HIS ACTIONS. He violated his vows, just like I did, and just like YOU did. What are YOU doing to make sure that that never happens again. What are you doing to de-escalate the drama?

Your to blame for everything? Then just agree. "Yes, I spilled your coffee" and "I bumped the curb" "I didn't get up on time" and answer calmy and without inflection. Spartan KNOWS where the mirror is. Give it back to him.

And please, don't argue about the housework anymore. Until you have read HNHN, or LoveBusters. There is a worksheet in there to help YOU TWO decide who does WHAT around the house. YOU EXPECT him to DO IT. Because you don't want to, and it's important TO YOU that it gets done. SO YOU WANT HIM TO DO IT. Because your doing ???what??? Running a household in tough. Especially with two people working. Heck, we have a maid that come in every two weeks. It makes our life possible. The worksheet details all the household tasks and how important they are to you and to him. How important that they are to get DONE, and how important they are to you or him that the other person does it. Believe ME, if its more important that the kitchen floor is spotless to YOU then to him, then you better resign yourself to the fact that YOU have to do it.

Those worksheets went A LONG way to reducing that stress in our household.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. If the anger is high, its time for disangagement. Your disengagement. Your trying to build a better marriage, right? Start there.

LG

PS: Tell your friend looking4 to drop a line. Not if hubby disagrees with it however.


LG