Left again for a few hours to come back and see the sh*t hit the fan ... again.

But needed to drop you a note.

For some time L4, I've noticed a slight change in your posts. I would have to sit down and look at a timeline, but I think it might very well have started when you be friended another poster.

You both agreed to contact outside of this forum. In my mind I thought this was dangerous, I said nothing. I wish now that I had.

The glimpses of fog that I started to see in your posts, scared me. I held off because I am so new here and I questioned my thoughts. I can still be somewhat sensitive due to my still new BW role. I did not want to judge your thinking wrongly and do damage.
I wish now I would have.

I do believe that this new poster friend has shared her selfish fog with your brain, and you have allowed it to enter. This is sad because it will be your H that will suffer the most from this osmosis of thoughts. Thoughts that you worked very hard to eliminate.

I know your intentions were genuine, because you have a genuine sense about you.
I also know that you will get your brain back on track. Muscle memory. I'm quite confident in that one. You are a smart cookie. I know you will be fine.


Take care
We can both learn from this.

I am so sorry that you're going through this! I can see how your H has triggers with the computer just as mine has with the gym (which I canceled today).

Please know that I will be praying for you, H and the lil ones.

Hey there L4 - so sorry to hear of your argument this weekend. Know that there are folks here thinking of you and hoping the best for you. If I had something more to offer I would surely do it - you're much further ahead of me in this marathon.

((Hug))

Cowgirl up!

L4,
I understand where you are coming from re computer, Flick triggers when I am on it, and I am the FBW. I gather OW used to neglect him with her internet boyfriends and thats why.
I also try to do MB when he's not around or otherwise occupied.

When we met in Seattle you mentioned that you had told your H I was a FBW and might have something in common with him. I am open to talking to him about MB and how it has helped me and Flick if you think it would help.

If he does email you Lil, include Flick in all replies and suggest that L4's H include him in communication with you.

BTW, L4, if you think he would take a man's POV better, have him email me.

Mark

Hey L4

Just thinkin' bout ya.

L4, the fact that you are so honest with your feelings, has given me insight as to what is in my H's head.

The question 'why' is such a tough one. I have a better understanding now, I hate it since I have to face my own shortcomings.

It sucks, but facing and eliminating my faults is necessary if a better M is to blossom.

Like you, I have to also not focus on myself and the selfish behaviours I have done.

Don't be too long gone.

Hello Vittoria,

Your above quote is so true and , I believe, the #1 reason most recovery efforts fail...

For the recovery to be successful there MUST be bilateral participation in the recovery.

HOWEVER, most of the time SOMEONE must start the effort toward recovery...

If the wayward is not repentant it falls on the faithful spouse to initiate the first steps.

Which is VERY hard to do but necessary for ANY chance at recovery.

When the faithful spouse admits to the wayward that they, too, could have done a better job at taking care of the marriage it SOMETIMES will open the wayward up to confession and repentance of the affair which is the first step to recovery.

I know in my marriage my admitting that I could have done a better job was key in opening my wife up to changing the way we managed our marriage.

Hope L4 comes back soon and lets us know how she is...

Jim

Hey L4 - Come back soon y'hear!!

L4,

In case you stop by I wanted you to know that we're praying for you guys...

Mark

Thanks everyone.

I know the timing was suspect so I need to be clear... I had NOTHING to do with the forums going down and the removal of the fun icons. It was purely coincidence. Really. ...Now I just gotta get used to this new look.

POJA is in place. It's been a meaningful and difficult break. I had to look hard at things -- things I've been avoiding -- and I really missed everyone's feedback. I know how much I look upon y'all for guidence and smarts. By stepping away I was hit square with the reality of how much I value your words.

I'll write more later. So much has happened, mostly with my frame of mind. I don't want to scare you off though, so I'll ease back into this... <wink> I have a teacher conference this morning and have work to do today, as in work that pays bills kind of work. Plus I have much to catch up on here.

Missed you.

And thank you for the prayers and good wishes. I felt them.

(Why have an "Edit" button on here any more if you can't edit?)

Goodness me! I've missed an awful lot. Hope things are back on track L4

ST

Hi.

I don't know why I've been putting off writing on my thread here. Maybe avoiding reality. You’re going to get several days worth.

I think I've been really good about avoiding LBs. Not perfect, but really good. I’m working POJA so I’ve been looking closely at ENs. Am I meeting H’s?

I’m pretty certain my H’s top ENs are Financial Stability, Physical Attractiveness, and Honesty & Openness. Sexual fulfillment must be up there because, well, he's a man. But this has dropped off (to my chagrin) and he has gone for months in the past without it so I'm pretty sure it's not top 2 or even top 3. But I am fulfilling that one, regardless of where he lists it.

My part-time work bothers H in that I’m bringing in a mere pittance of what I was making. So the FS is rocky. H is paranoid about losing his job and I think he resents me not making what I used to as he now feels trapped in this job -- that he has no options.

I am an A+ on the H&O. H doesn’t know this as he doesn’t trust my H&O because of my cheating. H&O is constantly in question.

The PA is well… Not good. When I’m stressed, I don’t sleep. When I don’t sleep, I eat crap and am tired and I talk myself out of working out. I gain weight. I’m not obese. I’m cute in the face and average in size now (size 10), but I’m not where H would like me to be in body size or shape. He likes high school L4.

And I think this is where I'm subconsciously sabotaging. I am actively looking for a job, I'm being honest, but am failing with the PA. Why is that? I hate to admit it and hadn't until this last week, because it makes me face that I am not doing EVERYTHING to save this M. Am I testing my H to see if he will stay with not-skinny L4? Why on this issue am I not working my a** off – literally – especially when the kids and I benefit from me being healthy too?

I think I figured part of it out. When weight became an issue after our son was born, H told me he was not attracted to me. The touches and intimacy stopped. I NEED the touches and intimacy. It was so hard and made me really worry about our future. Because, I think, what if I were to suffer a debilitating injury? Will H stay by me? I will always worry about this – and he knows this. So am I testing him? Trying to force his hand one way or the other? (My food issues go much deeper than wanting or not wanting to please my H, btw.) I went to the doctor this week and learned the medication I’m on can accelerate weight gain so we’re changing up my meds and hope that will help. Changing my nutrition and exercise patterns will certainly help too.

If I am correct in identifying H's top ENs and I can completely control only one of his tops (and that will take time to show results), what are my chances?

H seems to be holding back. Yes, he hugs me more, but I’m initiating the hugs 97% of the time. The other 3% are by him when he sees I’m sad or feels I’m down about something. I feel it doesn’t happen just because he wants to hug me and wants to hold me in his arms.

We had our deepest relationship talk in weeks last Monday. The bullet points:

• H is pretty sure I won’t cheat on him again. He’s not worried about that.
• I again offered to take a polygraph. He doesn’t want it.
• I offered EPs and he's not interested.
• Still doesn’t desire the transparency I’ve offered with passwords and access.
• H won’t forgive me for the cheating.
• H is mad that I’ve gained weight back that I worked so hard to get off. (I think he’s forgotten that a hunk of the weight loss was when I had oral surgery and couldn’t eat solid food for 3 weeks followed by stress when our daughter fell out a 2-story window and was in PICU and the hospital for 5 days. Several people thought I looked sick, my H thought I looked hot.)
• H cares for me. That’s the most he’ll give me.
• I asked H why he is here a few times (nicely) and all he could say is for the kids.
• He still can’t believe how stupid I was and doesn’t understand why I cheated.
• H can’t look beyond the affairs. I asked him if he can look at the last 5 months, or any of the time before or between the infidelities – that out of our almost 25 years of knowing each other, while I don’t expect him to forget about the 7 months when I’ve lied to him, I also don’t want him to forget about the other 24 years. H said he’s stuck in last year at this time. He said he can’t see the now because he can’t get beyond what I’ve done.
• H will not commit to wanting to save our marriage. He said he can’t do that.

Here is a sample of our convo -- and it's a good example of how our "touchy" conversations tend to go…

H asked why I didn’t divorce him last summer – after NC had been in place and I was going through withdrawal (we didn’t know this then). I said because I must have known there was something there to make me want to save our M. H said that wasn’t the reason because I wanted to be with the FOM. I said that wasn’t true because FOM had chosen his W and FOM was not an option. I repeated it was because I wanted to see if we could be saved. H said again that that wasn’t true, that I stuck around because I had lost my job and wanted his money. I pointed out that I could get money through alimony and child support and pride would never stop me from going back to waiting tables to survive. I reiterated, there was something still there that I couldn’t let go – I had to make sure I tried everything, which eventually also let to my confession. H said he doesn’t believe that. He asked me again why I didn’t walk out. I said, “Why don’t you tell me what my truth is since I apparently don’t know my own feelings.” He said, “I don’t know why you stayed because you obviously hated me.” I have never hated H. I have never told him I hate him. But he thinks for me and talks for me. He asks me a question, my answer isn’t what he thinks, so my answer is wrong.

Speaking of… It bugs the s*** out of me when he does this… He adopts a real smarmy, sarcastic tone and talks as if he’s L4, saying what he thinks I’m thinking. He has out loud conversations playing L4 as a real smarta** and it’s chalk full of DJs. I HATE this. And I have told him so more than a couple hundred times. (In fact, he did it again this afternoon. I said, “Stop it. You know how I feel about that.” He said, “Why? You know it’s true.” It drives me nuts.)

So where are we?... We’re doing okay. Better than a year ago. But I’m worried. We’re coming up on the dreaded 6 months mark which happens to coincide with the anniversary date of when the EA became a PA. (H knows the date). My H also has his most stressful trade show coming up.

I seem to have H’s attention because he is still here, but I don’t believe I have his heart.

My H won’t commit to working to save our M.

He can’t or won’t tell me he loves me.

H seems more independent. He seems to like being with me but is also fine not being with me. He can take or leave my company.

I don’t think I can meet his ENs.

I’ve ripped his guts out.

He keeps his distance.

He isn’t meeting all of my ENs (he doesn’t know them so how could he) and when he does, it sometimes feels forced or noncommittal. (I’m tolerating this because it’s not about me right now.) He’s much better, but there are things I’m doing without.

I’ve gotten some great advice offline with drive-by comments and to live MB in hopes that M will follow my lead. But late at night I wonder…

How are we going to be able to recover if this is how we continue? Is there more I can do to help him heal? I feel like I’m flying blind while in the meantime my Giver is losing some of her spunk.

Help me help him. Please. I know it’s only been 5 months but let me know if there is more I can be doing because he’s not showing me and he’s not telling me. It's like we're stuck.

I don’t want to lose him.

L4,

I wish there was something I could say, some sage advice to offer you. I have nothing. You appear to be doing everything right. The barrier to your recovery seems to be your H. I would have thought that 5 months past D-day he would have a more solid idea of "stay or go" but it doesn't seem that he does. He's not at all interested in MB, that I know. You're working your plan. Have you made an appointment with Steve or Jennifer? Of course I don't know from personal experience if that will help or not but others think the world of them. Perhaps it's time to give it a shot?

Thinking of you and wishing you the very best...

L4

L4

Just wanted you to know that it's good to see you back.

You know that night the cross was lit up? That was for you. Know that God has forgiven you and He is big enough to help your BH heal.

I want to give you a verse that carried me through some of my darkest times.

Job 42:2: "I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted."

Hang in there-

L4

"“Why don’t you tell me what my truth is since I apparently don’t know my own feelings.” He said, “I don’t know why you stayed because you obviously hated me.” I have never hated H. I have never told him I hate him."

His statement shows that BH does is not aware of or does not understand how compartmentalization and justification are used by a WW.

another can't edit grammar