no, please, don't. that won't do me any good.

no, please, don't. that won't do me any good.

Fear not, I won't be able to shut up for long.

PS: I am married to your east coast twin.

well, if it's true I have a doppelganger (hence same song, different singer - I am too common), maybe since I know the behavior all too well, I can point out things you may not realize as well in regards to my twin's behavior.

I'm certainly cyclical. this has been my first downward spiral in about a decade - and it's a doozy. the recent smack to the face (literaly - my face hit pavement) is a constant reminder that this isn't me - this isn't what I aspire to and I refuse to let it define me.

I choose to move forward in the healthiest and most benefitial to my BH as possible.

yes, I know to you this is lip-service - so I ask for advice on the showing.

Thanks for coming here. You may get some posts from folks that seem raw and over the top. A fresh FWW is coming out of the fog and may trigger some BS's...just know you may be confronted more readily than some, but please stay.

I have, what I think, is a very important question...

Are you prepared, for the rest of your life, to have only one man in your life...no matter what, no matter what excuse, no matter what happens with you or who you meet, or how you feel?

If you can't answer yes to this, then figure out what is getting in your way...what rationalization, what gate, would allow you to allow someone else in your life...

oh, I expect many are at different points of anger, sadness, agony and will give me different levels of response. I'm ok with that.

one man - yes. I am ok with that - always have been a serial monogamist. it's not the one man that I have an issue with - it's the entropy that I have an issue with. no, constant doting does not thrill me - it's the little things. Zenwolf is a great, wonderful sensitive man who spent years letting me do the laundry, let me contribute more to the relationship, let me work more.....etc oh, sure I'd get the occassional trinket that was sweet - but it would be great if someone else would clean - something, anything. while this is no excuse for an affair, ask him- he was certainly part of destroying what was there before. I haven't been like this the entire 10 years we've been together. you will read this as me being defensive - again, I have no excuse for seeking happiness in another man. there is no excuse. I did bring up the unhappiness before the affair, but was ready to check out at that point anyway. it isn't an issue with one man. it's an issue of co-maintaining the marraige.

cohosalmon: I've followed Zen's thread from the beginning as he and I are facing life along a similar timeline. We do bounce ideas off one another and frankly he's been a great help to me as I deal with my wife's affairs.

That said, it really pains me to see the way you are treating him and your family. If you REALLY want to work on your marriage and your family there are some things you must do to begin the healing process.

First, establish a rock-solid *no contact* with the OM. Have Zen help you write a NC letter and mail it. Heck, even call the OM on speaker phone with Zen in the room and tell him it's over. Don't just do it lip-service, make it count.

Every time you have contact with the OM you force yourself to start over at ground zero. And you force Zen to start over at ground zero. It's painful and horribly detremental to your marriage to have to continue to go back to start.

Second: Account for 100% of your time. No more "going out with the lady friends" at the bar. Go to work, come home, period. End of sentence. End of paragraph. End of chapter. End of book. Spend as much time as you possibly can with your husband. Not friends. He's the one that matters in your life, not friends.

Third: And this may be one of the most important...get off the alcohol. Join AA. You have proven with your ACTIONS that alcohol and you are a bad combination. You cannot control yourself when you have had some liquid courage in your body. Nuff said.

Fourth: Read, read, read and post here. You are going to get 2x4's up side the head (I'm trying to be nice and objective here...but it's hard being a BS and seeing the pain you have placed on Zen).

Fifth: Your ACTIONS are going to speak louder than your words. Words of waywards are worthless. You can say all you want about NC, loving your hubby, loving your kiddos...but when you get drunk and leap back into bed with the OM, well, your ACTIONS are speaking volumes about what you value in life.

Show Zen and show us that your ACTIONS will define who you are. Words are cheap. ACTIONS are what will define you in the coming days, weeks, months and years. If you want this to work, then prove it to us and Zen with your ACTIONS.

That's all for now. Frankly I'm amazed that you are even here. But I'm also impressed that you have choosen to show your face here...and get ready...there are more 2x4's headed your way. Put your hard hat on and hang in there.

Coho,

It is suggested that NC be established by letter, witten by you and approved by your husband. Then the two of you should mail it together or just et him mail it for you.


This from Dr Harley:

Full article here.

Any contact you have with OM, even fleeting contact, does two things. 1) It sets ZW back to the state of when he first discovered the affair. It is like stabbing him in the heart over and over again. His love for you can only take so much of this before it dies utterely and then there will be little you can do to save your marriage. & 2) It resets your clock back to zero with regard to withdrawal from OM. It is like an alcoholic who falls off the wagon and is intsantly back on the bottle.

If you want to remain married to ZW then you can never have any cotact withOM for any reason ever again.


Mark

OK,

But there are 2 issues...there are problems with a marriage, and there is an affair...and one does not explain the other.

If you truly are resolved to NEVER having another man in your life except zen...and I mean truly resolved...no looking at other men in fancy red sportscars, no oggling at Brad Pitt, no casual 'hi's' to coworkers, then this may resolve one issue.

My thought is this is easy to say or answer, but to do, is quite another...

The problems in the marriage are quite another thing, and can easily become a huge string ball of resentment that gets added to it every day. But it's your ball, and no one can unravel it for you...and even if zen were to do all those things perfectly, it is up to you to unravel it. Sure, he can help you. But it's time to figure out what it will take for you to unravel it.

So you say you resent his lack of help around the house...what does that mean to you? What is the message you get from him when you are doing all the work and he is not pulling his weight?

Feeling unloved, uncared for?

How can you let him know this? Perhaps showing you he cares about you can come in another form for him? Or perhaps he doesn't know how important it is to you?

actually, that's the easy part. and, yes, one has nothing to do with the other.

see, we have this all out on the table. it's always sticky in forums, regardless of forum type, because they're small windows into the actual life of the poster. I think we're doing well addressing many issues in the marriage. it's now about the work to repair the betrayal - my work.

"I think we're doing well addressing many issues in the marriage. it's now about the work to repair the betrayal - my work."

Sorry my dear, but you are completely fogged up. You had an argument with hubby and saw the OM this weekend? And you think you are doing well? YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see you have some little ones, time to grow up and work out things with hubby without running to yet another man.

I'm sorry, I thought I was clear in differentiating marriage issues with my issues.

If I were you, I would do some serious counseling. You are young, and on your second marriage, which was born from an affair. You are STILL (in the last couple days) seeing your adultery partner.

You have young kids who depend on you, and you have been out at bars, and driving drunk.

I don't care how awful your husband was, not helping, blah, blah, blah. You are on the path to destruction, and the destruction of your family too.

Insert 2x4 here ---> :twobyfour:

[nice work believer...right to the point!]

How have last few days been for you and Zen?

Serial monogamists do not cheat on 2 husbands. By definition, you are a Serial cheater. Things don't go your way and you bail. The question now becomes, do you want to become a Serial Monogamist?

Also, a marriage born out of an affair does not usually end well. Maybe Karma, maybe personality types. I hope you guys can change for the better, change soon, and be the exception not the rule.

Hi Coho, I see the last few posts to your thread before the boards went down have been lost. The last thing I remember writing to you was something like the below in response to your request for help and guidence.

You said in an earlier post that you are reading SAA, I wondered where you were up to with that? Also, have you and Zen filled in the ENQ and LBQ? Have/are you making some time for UA without the wee ones? Have you written your EP's (extrordinary protection) and a NC letter to the OP for Zen to look over?

Cohosalmon,

I have read your thread and a bit of your H's. I am sitting here thinking I should say many things to you, but realize something very important.

You have never stated WHY you had the affair. You have never stated what you told yourself to allow your boundaries (I assume you have them with regard to marriage and fidelity) to be overrun.

You have never stated what you feel a good marriage would be.

You have never stated what you feel a good husband would be.

You have never really stated why you want to remain married to your H.

You have never stated why you have issues with "controlling" things. My question would be is what do you fear. Most controlers fear many things most of them things they cannot control.

So I would like to inquire as to your take on the things I see missing from the information we would need to really offer you advice.

God Bless,

JL

thanks for asking, imagine.

I think we're doing as good as one can possibly expect. I'm doing my very best to make sure ZW/BS feels good and is comforted. When I see his look go off in to the distance, I try to bring him back. We're frank with each other, but I try to keep it optimistic on my side and hold him up. he actually said he was happy today - while it was for the moment, that was good. one day at a time.

yeah, it's too bad so much was lost in the forum blackout.

I'm around 1/2 way through. Yes, ENQ. No, LBQ. yes, time alone and date nights. No, EP. Yes, NC and sent to Dr. Harley. I haven't read Zen's ENQ, he's read mine. we're certainly in early, early recovery - if not earlier. ha. sorry. I know it doesn't seem humble to have a sense of humor, but jeez, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying.

We talked a bit today in the car to get Indian food for lunch together....

it's interesting that the BS is shocked that the relationship was so damaged in the eyes of the WS, time and time again this is what happens in these disasters. I did bring up that I hadn't really been talking to him for years. I felt he had always dominated the conversations, that he'd cut me off and never ask me to continue or care what I had to say, that I thought he was hyper-critical of anything I did say (any factoid I ever had wasn't real until it was verified by a reliable source such as a friend with a PhD or a respected news source he read himself), so I quit confiding and talking to him long ago. I got mad at first, but then just let it go. it's all those things that added up, that leads to a WS letting themselves be open - letting down boundaries and letting those needs be met by someone else. at first it was just girlfriends that met those needs, but the more I became disillusioned in my marriage, the more I just didn't want to be in it and went to the habit I knew to break it.

it's risky opening up on this forum - and to answer a question below, yes, I have control issues; yes, my therapist told me that's just too bad (he had a great sense of humor) and that I need to realize I can't control the world; but I still don't like to rely on other people. never have liked it. it's a long legacy in my family with many stories of why and all that, but it's there. my grandpa left my grandma for another woman, my dad left my mom...my first husband cheated on me first...it's a big box of ick. most of the time, when I'm myself, my true self, I don't let it get to me. what I do is my responsibility and I'm better than my family history - I am responsible for my actions and life doesn't "happen to you", you control your own life. when you're in those downward spirals, or when I am, those cycles that hit...it's so fuzzy and foggy that a control freak who is used to looking down every option like a line from point a to b and is able to surmise the outcome can't see those end points anymore and that is so scary. I'm a thinker, not a feeler. Point a to point b. do not deviate, be efficient and practical. but when fuzzy and foggy, I can't see point a or point b and will withdrawal more and make a bigger mess until I break something because in that chaos, I can finally fix something...or not as the case may be here, but at least finally I can see point a and point b again.

ok, so, that was a huge ambiguous tangent unless you get where I'm coming from. then it would make sense.