I am not quite sure really. When it boils down to it he is afraid to look at the affair at all. He claims he put it behind him and would like for me to do the same and both of us just act like it never even happened.

My thoughts are that there are many reasons he will not share all the details. First and foremost i think is because he "thinks" it will "protect" me (at least that is my hope), secondly i think he is afraid that he would have to look at himself and i am not sure he can do that. I am not sure how to say one of the other reasons that i want to say and make it come out right but i do not think he has ever gotten to the point where he feels any "bad" feelings toward the FOW. I do not know if that is a good thing or a bad thing or something i should be concerned about or what.

I see a lot of FWSs here on MB who post things that they realized were bad about the FOP, but my H has never spoken a bad word about her and does not even really agree with me when i say bad things about her (he does not disagree but he does agree either).


You are right on this one and part of the reason i am sure that i am having a hard time giving him my trust again.

But it has been so long now since the affair that i wonder if this is my hold up in "giving" him my heart again. Or is it all the other things that have been said and done in the past that i still hold on to and then added the affair crap on top of it.

I don't know anymore who is the problem or what is the problem or even if there is a problem .

All i know is that i live my life a nervous wreck most of the time that my H is not in my presence wondering if he is "being friendly" with someone who is like the FOW and is taking his friendliness as "flirting" (which as you know is the way "i" view it) and tings will happen all over again.

When we are together (now that he has been being not so "friendly" out in public) we get along just great. We enjoy one another's company and do most things together. All of his time is accounted for, he hands me his cell phone as soon as he comes in the house.

I am just rambling i have so many thoughts all the time about my M that i just don't know where i am from moment to moment.

The reason I asked you the question relates to your wording - when you say you will probably never know.

It has always bothered my that you say things like never. Because he can chose to or not chose to and he can choose to change if he desires.

But, at the same time I also understand your point. It sounds like he is the keeper of whatever he chooses and if it effects you you have no say.

And that is what bothers me.

If you two had a discussion and ultimately decided not to go there and you were both at peace with it then I would come to the conclusion that there is no problem. You would be a team working together and in agreement. No secrets. No wondering.

It is you not having any say or choice in the matter that really bothers me.

It is the not even having a discussion about it that bothers me. Its like the answer is no so don't bother me about it.

I guess i am confused about your post.

Are you saying that it bothers you that i say "never" all the time and i shouldn't because he is capable change.

Or does it bother you that he (or at least that is what he has said) will not discuss it.

Believe me i have tried many times and ways to get him to answer my questions. In the beginning (when we were first starting recovery) he would get so pi55ed off if i even asked anything about the affair.

The things i have found out have mostly been through other sources but he has never denied anything that i found out. Also in the beginning of recovery if HE brought up the affair we could discuss it. He still does bring it up sometimes and i try to get answers but he always then just shuts down and says it's in the past let it stay there.

But if you are bothered by me always saying never when i shouldn't be then while i would have to agree with you i just know what i have done up to this point to get what i ahve gotten from him.

Actually it was both.

That you say you will never know. Like it is predetermined. The only possible outcome. I know you have this opinion because you have tried so many times.

And that he gets to choose.

It would be so much better if you both discussed and agreed to discuss or just put it in the past. But, its that he gets to choose instead of the two of you.

Or that he was willing to do whatever you needed.

I'm not sure why I was thinking about this today. Just something that gnaws at a person once and awhile. Why doesn't a person share or why doesn't he work with you on a core issue.

Just the willingness to share whether you chose to go there or not would be a huge step.

Here is another idea to approach this. One things my W and I did was the personal history questionnaire. Sets the tone for no secrets and creates openness.

Personal History Questionaire

Well the only thing i can say is that i will try.

Up until now it has been difficult to even talk to him about the A or M issues because according to him everything is "fine". And if i just want to talk about anything there has to be something "wrong" and "what has he done now". So a lot of times i just drop it because like i said before i do not want it to be confrontational in any way.

He has seemed to have "heard" me FINALLY (after almost 25 years) about his friendliness while he is around me and that was a discussion that HE brought up and he was not defensive.

If this is something you need, then bring it up and try again and keep trying.

If not, then drop it and move on.

If you talk to him, tell them this is about you and your feelings. Not due to him or inadequacies in him. It is what you need.

You want to trust. You want to heal fully.

I will keep trying because i am afraid that it is something i need in order to ever really trust him again.

I think i could still have a decent marriage however not a great one.

Ask him how he would feel if he did this with you? Use those words.

See new response

He actually has told me the answers to most of the questions in there. And there were lots of issues with his mother that he never dealt with.

We are both very intimate that way, he has shared things with me and i with him that no other people on the face of the earth know about us.

I am not sure about the last few pages though starting at page 14 i think he does have a lot of things on those pages he does not share with me.

I try to share all of my feelings with him although i may not got about it the right way sometimes.

You say that admiration is a very important need for him.

I think Dr. Harley's mentions the quote that behind every great man is a great woman.

My sense is that he sees you as a great value to him. You make him better and why he fell in love with you even though you say your simple.

Maybe at times you tend to be critical of him. And he feels it tears him down. Maybe as you say here you feelings come across as critical of him instead of how you feel about something.

I think you are correct.

I have always felt that my H loved me (and i still feel like he does) for who i am on the inside.

I think he does not deal with emotions well mabe i don't know. I think he does feel like i am "attacking" him somehow when i am telling him my feelings.

I do not know if i go into the conversation wrong, if it is his frame of mind at the time of the conversation, or what but he gets defensive so then i shut down. Mainly because i do not want it to appear to be a battle.

However if HE starts the conversation and i can put my feelings into it he does not feel "attacked" it seems.

But he does not like to talk about things much so those times are few and far between.

That is a good observation. How does he feel about himself? Does he have alot of confidence?


I think you would be surprised how much he likes to talk. Maybe not all the same things you do.

I do not think he has much confidence in himself. It stems from his FOO.

I should look for more openings to get stuff in there.

"My thoughts are that there are many reasons he will not share all the details. First and foremost i think is because he "thinks" it will "protect" me (at least that is my hope), secondly i think he is afraid that he would have to look at himself and i am not sure he can do that. I am not sure how to say one of the other reasons that i want to say and make it come out right but i do not think he has ever gotten to the point where he feels any "bad" feelings toward the FOW. I do not know if that is a good thing or a bad thing or something i should be concerned about or what.

I see a lot of FWSs here on MB who post things that they realized were bad about the FOP, but my H has never spoken a bad word about her and does not even really agree with me when i say bad things about her (he does not disagree but he does agree either). "


I was thinking about this over the weekend and i think the "bad feelings" toward the FOW go hand in hand with him not wanting to look at himself.

The FOW is truly the definition of "a no good white trash ho". Her personality, where she lived, her actions, all of it. And i think if he were to really admit to what kind of a person she truly was it would make him feel even worse about himself and his actions.

I still have just been trying to plug along and we had another really nice weekend together. We will see where this road continues to takes us.

I really worry about never being able to move past it, too. I thought a long time ago I had forgiven him for his EA, but find I'm still struggling with anger, hurt, and "why? "why now?"

BS I wish i knew why myself.

I have been going along pretty good now for a few weeks and then ever since the day that he was telling me that he knew where the female co-worker lived and that she rode to work with her boyfriend. And then one day last week there was a voicemail from a different female co-worker which did seem very business like. However i am not sure if both things bothered me so much because they are triggers or because i think he still does not feel the need for boundaries, or am i expecting his boundaries to be too small.

It is all just really hard sometimes and you just want to say what the heck it is not worth it anymore. But yet here i am still plugging away at the M and at this website (which i missed btw) to gain more understanding and knowledge.

I forgot to add that he also did not answer his phone for about two hours this morning. So of course my mind is thinking the worst.

I hate this CRAP!!!

Well we had a bad weekend this weekend. I can't really say what the problem was but he got upset on Saturday and wsa just a grouch all day and kept saying that he didn't think we could ever get past the A and he was tired of it all and he wanted to be himself again and that he still doesn't know why it happened and that bothers him.

It just was not a good day at all.

I told him about the fact the i did not like the fact that he knew so much about his female because i felt that his boundaries are not "tight" enough and he just got upset. He said he can't even tell me about his day most of the time because he is afraid that i will be mad if he tells me he speaks to his female co-workers.

I told him that i would not be mad if it is was just work related (which is how i speak to my male co-workers) and not anything personal like where they live for instance.

We had a better day yesterday but i do not know where my head is right now let alone his.

I am so tired of all of this crap, i just want it all to be over with.

The one thing that I hear you both saying and that is important for both you and your H to understand and understand deeply.

Your H feels this as do you.

What is trivial to you may be vitally important to the other.