I also wanted to say one thing about his drinking and his "raging" regarding our children.

He hates his temper as much as the rest of us do, so we BOTH have ALWAYS told our children that the stuff he does we he acts that way is not a "normal" reaction.

And we have always talked to them about drinking and drugs and sex and pretty much everything.

"I" have always tried to protect my children from even being around him when he gets stupid like that, i usually made them go to their rooms or somewhere else.

Besides what i stated before about them drinking together being one of the conditions that was contributed by alcohol, i am sure that it contributed by bringing down his inhibitions, by not thinking clearly, lots of other things.

I think it may have helped contribute to his illness as well. During that timeframe he was staying up until the wee hours of the morning hanging out in his "man cave" out in the garage getting drunk and talking to her on the phone (i found this out after) and then getting up and going to work the next day.

SC, alcoholism has many many effects on children.

If your H's father and grandfather were alcoholics it effected your H in ways you can only imagine.

I'm sure it has effected your children even with all your efforts.

I ask you to simply do a google search on children of alcoholics. My wife is a child of an alcoholic. My wife's mother's father was an alcoholic. All of this has now effected me as well. I was naive. But, I am committed to making sure it stops here and I have the strength to make sure it does.

Well i guess i must be naive as well because i have never even considered that it effected me growing up or my children because i have always been so good at telling them it was "wrong".

Do you think his drinking has effected our recovery as well?

I am going to have to research this because now you have me worried about my children!!!!

SC, I'm not sure if this is you being naive or in denial or just being sarcastic?

You told me that your H is an alcoholic. Yes, a functioning alcoholic but that isn't any different than an alcoholic. You also stated his father was an alcoholic and his grandfather was an alcoholic.

If this is all true the answer is very obvious.

I assure you i am not being sarcastic. I guess (according to what you are saying) i am both in denial and naive.

As i said before i have never considered that it effected our lives that much. He is the one who drinks, IMO he is responsible about it (except during the times i mentioned) as he does not drink on the job or when he first wakes up, it is after work or in the evenings on the weekend unless some sporting event is going on, or he even may not have beer that night (most nights though he does), we have always talked to our children about it, he does not drink and drive, he does not hang out in bars (except during the A).

And i know his parents split when he was 12 and he did not live with his father. I do not know how much he was around that particular grandfather (his dad's dad) as he had passed away before i met my H.

I do not feel that my life growing up was bad in anyway. I am going to research more.

I also wonder why you think it is effecting our recovery as he is the same person i have always been with as far as his alcohol. He probably drinks less now than he ever has.

SC,

You are confusing me at times.

On one hand you say your H is an alcoholic, his father was an alcoholic, and his grandfather was an alcoholic.

And then on the other you say things to minimize it like he isn't an alcoholic because he functions, and he drinks less now, and we talk about it, but that ENIL is defintely an alcoholic because he can't even function.

But, it sounds like he drinks every day. And you seem to believe he is an alcoholic.

If he is an alcoholic that is the crutch of your problem.

Also read up on codependancy.

I am not saying they are not alcoholics because they are, but like i said i consider them "functioning alcoholics" because they never let it interfere with their day to day life. I guess i look at them differently than i look at the ENIL.

To me the ENIL is the definition of a "true" alcoholic, he can not function in every day life, he can not hold down a job because he drinks until he is so drunk he passes out and then gets up and starts all over again at 9:00 am if that is when he wakes up.

To me there is a difference. I am assuming by your comment you do not believe there is a difference.

Yes, I don't see much of a difference.

My wife's father is a functioning alcoholic. The guy has a great heart, means well, goes to work every single day, is on time for work, never misses work, but when it comes down to it he is an alcoholic and it is the most important thing in his life and it has caused all sorts of problems.

But it does interfere with their day to day life doesn't it? Sure they make it to work every day and are on time for work but it effects those around them. It effects their family.

Doesn't it effect you? Hasn't it effected the children?

What would your children say?

I did what you suggested and i asked my children. I spoke to each of them separately.

My YDD said that she lost a lot of respect for her dad about the A and then she lost what respect she had left when they got into it that night because he was "drunk" and that she "loves" her dad because he is her dad but she does not "like" him very much because of those two things and doubts she ever will (and i knew that already we have talked about it before). Other than that she did not feel it had an effect on her life.

My DS said other than that night (because he was present too and had some words with his dad as well protecting his sister) he does not think it has effected his life. He really doesn't notice or know if his dad had been drinking that day or not.

I did not get a chance to speak to my ODD because she was at work.

We all three agreed however that his "rage" has effected our lives a GREAT deal, far more than his drinking could even begin to effect it.

And his "rage" happens whether he has been drinking or not and you never know when it is coming, it is usually out of the blue over something that does not seem to be that big of a deal to the rest of us but i am assuming it must be to him.

Well i guess i am naive or denial because i see it differently. My H has never let his alcohol be the most important thing in his life IMO. He does not have to have it all the time, he can go places and not drink however drinking (unfortunately to me simply because i do not like it) is a socially acceptable and probably even kind of "pushed" thing, therefore he typically does drink along with all the other people drinking.

I am not saying that i agree with it but "i" am the ONLY person that i know (there are a few other females in my family that do not drink) that does not drink at least socially. How many people go "out for drinks" after work or go to "happy hours" all the time? I mean all of my co-workers just look at me like i am an alien or something when i tell them i don't drink.

Maybe because it is all i have ever know but i just see it differently.

SC, to me, going out for drinks socially is different than being an alcoholic.

I don't see this as something that is normal behavior. I see it a very big deal.


This sounds like you. It sounds like she is minimizing it. I doubt that I will ever like my dad again but other than that it isn't a big deal.

He is her dad isn't he? Her dad?

To me, it gets made out to sound like some casual acquaintance.

I would agree with you that by my daughters reaction he just seems like an acquaitance to her but yes he is her dad. Unfortunately during the time that the ENIL lived with us which was three years maybe more my H spent most of his time in his "man cave" in the garage with the ENIL and he was not in the house much interacting with HIS CHILDREN AND HIS WIFE. This was during their high school years when they probably needed the most interaction with him.

But once again he always chose the "man cave" over sitting in the house with us so he does not "know" our children the way i do or really at all, he could not tell you their likes and dislikes, what they are allergic to, besides thier main friends that come to our house who they hang out with. He chooses not to pay attention or whatever to find out more about their lives.

One of the things he said to me which was a reason he had the A was that he did not feel the kids "loved" him. At the time i was angry with him because of the A and i told him that was his own fault for not getting to "know" his children.

Add to that the A (which they all blamed on him even though i told them i was at fault as well for things i had done in the marriage because he is their dad and i did not/do not want them to "hate" their dad) and that night which he said horrible nasty things to HIS OWN DAUGHTER (including telling her it was her fault he had the A). And yes my YDD has no respect for her father.

Though this brings me great sadness i can not change her mind i have tried. But it has been a combination of things not "just his drinking" that has caused her to feel this way.

What is social drinking? If you only do it once a month, once a year, once a day? What is the definition of social drinking?

I do not like the fact that my H drinks (mainly because i feel alcohol itself is bad and i feel it should not be legal). However i still do not feel like he is a "horrible" man because he drinks every day.

SC,

I wish you would attend Al-Anon once a week for 2 months - 8 or 9 times.

I will at least consider it.

I understand. He has a good heart.

If he is addicted to alcohol he has a big problem and as you even recognize the alcohol itself is bad and that is what I am challenging you on.