You're joking, right? I don't even know what to say to this, not2fun, it is so bizarre.

I believe she means the AP's are not abusive to each other. Waywards are known to blame their problems on their BS's - including whatever difficulties arise that keep them from their AP's - such as losing their jobs and respect of their friends and family. OTOH, they view their AP as their "savior" from the whole mess - even though in reality they are completely upside down in their thinking. So a WS leaving their "savior" in order to meet their obligations (marriage)vs. a BS leaving their abusive wayward.

Actually I believe BS's go through withdrawal from their as well. Plan B helps with that (by going cold turkey) and it's probalby the reason why the longer the Plan B, the less likely the reconcilliation. After a period of time, the BS completes their withdrawal and then even if the WS returns, they can evaluate the marriage more logically as to whether they want to persue recovery or not.
It was abusive, but to the BS's, not to the APs. Well yes, I see your point, but the main abuse was directed at the BS's. From the AP's standpoint, like I said above, they are standing together against the masses.

(((((SMB)))))

Now this I can completely relate to. I have found the A itself isn't what hurts the most, but the hurtful things said and done.

I hope you all don't think I disagree about Plan B. I totally agree with it and even see the need for it. In fact, if you anyone has read my thread or followed it, you know I REPEATEDLY wanted to go into Plan B during Plan A. ALL THE TIME. I wanted away from the hurt and pain. I wanted away from WH. BUT.....

the reason I didn't go was because my Plan A hadn't been strong, YET. It was a continueing process for me. It took longer than 3 weeks for me to "undo" some of MY bad habits and thought processes. I also hadn't done any proper snooping/exposing. It just so happened when I DID do the proper snooping/exposing, I was ready for Plan B. EXCEPT, by finding out about COW and exposing, I effectively destroyed the Affair.....

And if I had gone into Plan B BEFORE that, well, I am not sure if we would be where we are today.

not2fun

I have been in Plan B for over a year. I would say, braggingly it has been almost perfect or at the very least almost entirely dark. Not ONE WORD or ONE SYLLABLE has been uttered to my WH in that time. Maybe 3 seconds of eye contact when we went to court for financial reasons. And up until March 1st I had NOT CONTACTED him ONCE.

Was Plan B hard, absolutely. And it was hard because you almost are doing NOTHING. And for someone who wants to do, that was the worst.

Plan B can be the opportunity to find YOURSELF. Learn about YOURSELF. Oh, how I fought this, but what I have learned is that I like myself. Plan B so protected me from the insanity and chaos of that toxic affair.

I got the time to heal, to discover my relationship with G-d. To find out what I WANT in life. What's most important to me.

It gave me time to create new relationships with my children. It gave me time to become the woman that G-d envisioned for me.

Plan B worked because the affair seems to have ended and there is still love in my bank for a recovery if and when that happens. But it gave me the time to know if that doesn't happen, yes I will be sad, but I have a life and I survived the affair.

I think a more important question is how many BS's who did a long-term or indefinite Plan A went on to reach a fully recovered marriage.





PM, I considered myself a very strong woman of faith, who believed it was my job to stand in the gap. I also believed I could take what was dished out.

I COULD NOT SEE the damage that was happening to me. I had no idea how close to the cliffside I was and how quickly I was going to crash to the bottom.

And I really don't see how Plan A is "standing in the gap" and Plan B isn't. I see them as STEPS to REACH the goal of a recovered marriage if at all possible. Aren't they BOTH standing in the gap? Well, actually, I see standing in the gap as PRAYING for the deliverance of that person.

I think you are asking more about the spiritual battle that takes place in our marriages. I believe that we fight those battles on EVERY front--physically, emotionally, spiritually. Physically and emotionally we battle the affair through Plan A AND Plan B; spiritually we battle the affair through prayer, Scripture reading, and fellowship with other believers who are carrying us through and battling FOR US when we are too weak.




There were no conditions because the purpose of that story was to demonstrate that if we return to our Heavenly Father with a humble, trite heart, we will be accepted with loving, open arms.

The father in that story is the Father in Heaven who can see into every heart and already knows the state of it. So, of course, no conditions were needed. God doesn't need conditions because he cuts through skin and flesh and glares right into every crevice of our being.


I think this passage is speaks DIRECTLY to waywards...about the love their Father has for them. I DON'T think this passage is about how a BS is suppose to welcome their perpetrator back into their lives. But I think alot of weak, fearful BS's USE it as an excuse to do anable an affair.

ONCE AGAIN, the purpose of Plan A is not to change you. Its purpose is to DEMONSTRATE A WILLINGNESS to meet the needs of the WS if he ends his affair.

Nor does exposure have to be done in Plan A. Sometimes the best time to expose is in PLAN B.

You're right. I was only thinking of it in the natural. Of course, the Father knew the son's heart. That makes more sense to me. Thanks for that revelation.

Lots to think about here. Thanks everyone for your feedback.

One of the reasons I'm asking about all this is because a very dear friend of mine who's WH was a music minister FOR YEARS, has gone off the deep end. Moved out and is currently living with OW. She calls me often to ask for advice. I've practically BEGGED her to come to MB for help because there are more qualified people here to help with the MB program.

She is asking if she should go totally dark now (after 3 months) or if she should continue to be sweet and nice to him. I didn't want to tell her to go dark before it was time.

I WISH she would come here!!

{{{{{{{PM}}}}}}

It's very frustrating when you know where they can get help and support, and they just won't come.

That was an awesome post, SMB..

Thanks Melody for this. I sometimes visit a website that encourages you to stay in their version of Plan A and I think that's what confuses me sometimes.

Thank you.

Glad you said this. I consider myself a woman of strong faith but it has bothered me that some BSs think they are supposed to put up with unlimited abuse from a WS. I don't ever recall such teachings from Sunday school.

One more wrinkle

What IF, the WH is NOT being abusive or cruel when he comes around BS? Or what IF, the WH acts TORN each time he comes around? In my friend's case, he's clearly lying to OW about his intentions.

Can you think of a better way to destroy an entire family than to tolerate endless abuse from a fallen wayward? One that comes to mind is my SIL, who had a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized in the nutward for several weeks after my brother left her and their 8 yr old autistic son for a 21 yr old skank. My nephew had to endure terrible trauma by being placed in foster care for several weeks before they would release him to my SIL's parents. My SIL's teenage DD, from a previous marriage, got pregnant and ran off. The whole family crumbled instead of just my stupid brother because my poor SIL tried so hard to get my brother back for almost a year.

She allowed herself to be destroyed mentally and physically instead of removing herself from his circle of abuse.

I often wonder what would have happened if my SIL would have gone into Plan B before the nervous breakdown. What would have happened to her family?

PM, he is clearly lying to BOTH of them.

His acting torn is just manipulation to keep the cake-eating going. And it is abusive, and it will cause her damage.

P,

Have you given her SAA?

not2fun

Why you are on a roll today, PM....

pm, the fact that he is having an A is abusive to BW no matter how you slice it. WH doesn't have to literally scream in her face or kick her in the gut to be abusive. His behavior is cruel period. If he is acting torn, it doesn't matter much. He's still lying to BW and OW. Not that I have any sympathy for OW but he's still hurting people and not acting like a man I'd want to call my husband. Being torn has to be damaging to BW as well.

Yes, watching your husband waffle between you and an OW would be incredibly painful. It would tug at your heart, get your hopes up, keep you in the drama, send your emotions all over the place.


It's craziness.

He is doing it because it allows him to cake eat.

No. Either me, my H, or both of us would have ended up in a psych ward or an early grave. My kids didn't deserve that.

Sorry about your SIL and her boy. Are they doing okay?