When we talk tonight, I'm going to ask him if he's seen the letter and the email and if he'll share his thoughts. I can do that, no problem. If he says, as I suspect he will that "we'll talk when I get home", then I have a quandary. On one hand, I don't want to talk when he gets home because that assumes status quo which I have already committed to overthrow. On the other hand, is it realistic to assume we can walk through this minefield by telephone separated by 3000 miles?

This isn't a minefield. All you're looking for is a yes or no, correct? That could be done by morse code if need be.

I think it's time to bring it up, frankly - well before he comes home - to allow several days of discussion if necessary. If he has read the letter and purposefully hasn't brought it up, it smacks of disrespect, disregard, and denial to me. He may not WANT to take it seriously, or perhaps he really DOESN'T take you seriously. It's hard to differentiate.

He needs to know how serious and fed up you are, and he needs to know that if he doesn't have a job by (insert date), you'll be expecting him to find another place to live.

I typically edit a lot and being denied that feature is very frustrating for me. I get the whole yes/no thing. I just have my doubts that you're going to get a yes/no answer. That's why I think it's best that you hash this out while you're apart because once you have him with you again, it's going to be harder to keep your resolve - jmo.

Soolee is right that's not so simple as yes/no, but it stil shouldn't be avoided because you feel it's too complex, IMO. I also agree with Soolee in regards to his disrespect in this issue. I think that works on your side as well. You show respect for him by requesting a response because you believe he is capable of dealing with it. Not that it should be your primary concern at this point, but you aren't doing him any favors by letting him avoid the issue.

You need to distinguish between what you prefer and what you will tolerate. You prefer that your husband respond to your questions before you make a decision. But what if he won't? Is there any point at which you will act in the face of his silence? If not, that is OK. Accept that about yourself. Stop beating yourself up for being willing to wait for his answer.

It took me many years to accept that my wife was not going to meet my needs. Throughout that time I whined like a petulant child that my needs were not being met. Eventually I realized they were not gong to be met if I stayed married. Nevertheless, I have chosen to stay married. I just dropped the expectation that my needs wold be met.

I know it is not easy to draw a line in the sand when you fear your parter may cross it. Drawing the line seems overwhelming when it feels equivalent to leaving. If you aren't ready to leave, then don't draw the line in the sand.

Stop telling yourself "he has to ....." if you are not prepared to take action if he doesn't. Tell yourself "I would prefer him to do ....., but I can handle it if he doesn't."

Best wishes. It isn't easy to live where you are. And changing locations is no picnic either. But you can handle it!

I agree. I need to keep focused on the fact that I have respectfully (twice now!) laid it all out on the line for him--I've shared my fears, my hopes and my desires and I need to tell myself that ignoring it is a huge slap in the face. Telling me "we'll talk when I get home" is also disrespectful, but I'm not sure how to convey that without it sounding like a selfish demand.

I'm trying to give him a small benefit of the doubt here because I sent that email last night around midnight--we emailed back/forth a few times this AM and then he needed to pack up where he was and head out. Sitting in his friend's living room might not have been the best/most comfortable place for him to get into a personal discussion by email or phone.

@^$#%#$^t

QUIT making excuses for him! You've been doing that since you got married. For 5 years of no job. During an EA. Quit it!

Look at it this way (I do). If you tell him - as you HAVE - that he either gets with the program or finds a new life, and then find 143 reasons to let him slip by without doing what you spelled out, you have lost your ONE AND ONLY CHANCE to get YOUR needs met.

Because if you let him come home now without him doing what you've asked for, he will know, unequivocably, that he can forever more do whatever the h&ll he wants - because you have no backbone.

You are not making the distinction between the action and the way it's delivered, Cat. If I've learned nothing else from my share of 2x4's here, it's that no matter what I do, I don't have the right to do it/deliver my message via selfish demands, disrespectful judgements and angry outburts.

It was a long road for me to even begin to see where I am making my own SDs, DJs, etc. Don't start knocking me and assuming I'm going to be a doormat just because I am finally aware that there is a better delivery method and that by using it, I will be a better person.

I need help making sure my message is couched in a thoughtful (read, NOT ANGRY or DISRESPECTFUL) manner.

Further, I think you should take a deep breath before you hit that 'submit' button. For someone who is timid around the feathers in a room in real life, I have noticed you are awfully aggressive over the 'net.

OH, several people have told you that it isn't disrespectful for you to ask him if he wants to work on the marriage or not. Your reasons for not doing so have gone from not wanting the ball to be in your court, he hasn't had time to respond, he hasn't had a place where he could respond in private, the distance is too far to communicate, to I want to make sure I don't LB.

Excuse me? You've been going on and on about how he's used you all these years, and now you are afraid that you're going to upset him?

I don't get it.

fwiw, the reason I'm aggressive over the net is because I see people caving for all the wrong reasons - like I did for 30 years. I'm trying to prevent you for signing up for another 10 or 20 years with him if he is unwilling to discuss the hard issues, and unwilling to accept that you truly are at a crossroads.

You seem to be saying that you expect him to ignore everything you've agonized over here for weeks, just because 'that's the way he is,' and that despite you having written an ultimatum which you very carefully crafted, you are going to be stuck making another decision - all over again - in 2 weeks when he comes home and refuses to deal with it.

Did you mean what you said, or not?

And all of the above are true. It's possible to have more than one feeling going on at once, particularly responsive to the situation.

Most of us are. It is much easier for us all to give advice and see what is best for others, but have a much more difficult time applying that same advice to our own lives.

Dangit. I meant to say that it doesn't mean the advice isn't valid or that the advice isn't coming from someone who cares.

Yes, I do expect him to do that. And yes, it's painful because I know what I have to do. What you are all seeing here is (yes, horrors!) a bit of second-guessing myself because (yes, horrors!) I assumed this was a safe place to work out my case of the waffles and also some trepidation because there is no turning back.

I'm surprised no one has 2x4'd me for the most glaring error I've made and that's to A.S.S.-ume that he's going to take one particular course of action. You know what they say about assuming.

Yes and no. I think that avoiding poor communication is much more important when the message has a decent chance of being well-received if it is delivered well. So that poor communication can ruin an otherwise good chance for a successful outcome.

On the other hand, I doubt that your message is going to be all that well received no matter how artfully it is expressed. So in your case I would worry more about "paralysis by analysis" than about inadvertently rubbing him the wrong way. What you intend to say will likely rub him the wrong way no matter how artfully you say it.

Even model responses like "I feel sad when you _____, and I will take a bubble bath to calm my nerves the next time you do it" can cause a negative response if he really wants to do _____. The fact that the rest of humanity would consider him a selfish pig for wanting to do _____ does not imply that he will stop doing it when you inform him it causes you pain.

What you need to do first and foremost is decide whether this is really your "hill to die on". Are you prepared to leave if he does not offer an acceptable response? Or if he offers no response at all? Or are you going to back down (which, as I have said, I won't hold against you since I am doing the same thing)? Only after you know whether you will back down can you work on crafting your message.

OH, maybe I'm wrong, but I assumed that you told us this was your hill (you have said that repeatedly - that you will no longer accept the marriage you have) and expected us to hold your feet to the fire. As I am doing.

If that's not your intent, please do let us know, and we'll back off and let you take him back in just to have him in the house, no matter how poorly he treats you.

That's not a dis at you. If you want him more than you want your own needs met, then fine. But you've got to tell us. Or we'll be giving you advice you don't want to hear. And a few 2x4's.

OH, you should feel safe here. I don't really know what it is that you want different. I don't think it would be safe to let you cave in on your decision without encouraging you to do otherwise.

Not sure how well this applies, but heard a good sermon at church this weekend. When faced with hard times like this, we have three choices. We can have hope, we can despair, or we can have resignation. I don't believe we are meant to despair, or to resign. What is the hopeful response to this situation?

I don't want the marriage that was in existence before he got on that plane.

I spent two friggin' weeks writing a letter (with lots of input from the people here) that made that clear.

I then bit off all my nails waiting for him to find it because I was preparing myself for an unpleasant conversation.

When no such conversation ensued, and I had previously decided I wasn't bringing it up I slid into a sort of plan A mode--where I kept the convo light and non-relationship oriented. I had already booked my time with Steve and didn't want to rock the boat further until I'd counseled with him. I booked that appt the day after he left.

Steve suggested I quantify the portion of that letter where I admit to my shortcomings and explain how I was going to be accountable for adjusting those shortcomings. He then helped me develop a very simple plan of action for now.

He encouraged me to develop a goal and he encouraged me to assume (and you know how I hate that word) that H has the same goal. He then encouraged me to proceed as if we both shared that goal and to write that second letter that quantifies and qualifies, and send it to him.

That's what I did last night.

More nails bitten to the quick.

More non-response from H.

The ball is back in my court whether I like it or not because I know have to bring up the letter(s). Do I like it? He-- no!

The original premise--I am not returning to the old marriage--stands. The new premise--the goal Steve helped me outlined--also still stands unless and until H tells me it's not his goal as well. Then of course I will have to adjust my goal and go for one of an amicable split which would be next best for the kids.

If I seem a bit stressed and flighty about it it's because it's a big step, a scary step and one way out of my comfort zone. You can 2x4 me to death but it's not going to do a thing for the butterflies in my stomach.