BF,

"Why should he get to heal faster than I?"

What makes you think he has healed at all? Believe me, he hasn't even STARTED!

Heck, he hasn't even figured out yet that love is a decision, not a feeling! It won't be till he takes a good look at the man in the mirror that he will even begin to understand that he needs healing. At the rate he's going, I wonder if he'll live long enough to heal.

And about that 401(k) cash-out. GET THEE TO A LAWYER, PRONTO! Half of that is legally YOURS, for YOUR retirement! He broke your heart--don't stand by and let him destroy your financial future too.

You can do this, BF, I KNOW you can.

Right Here Waiting

Thanks, mindshare, believer, catperson and RHW!
Clarification re: the 401K: He is cashing out to pay back his father some money he owes him and our taxes. The rest is to pay off one of our creditors that we both share in equally (actually in my name).

I asked over the weekend to recieve copies of any paperwork re: the 401K and he agreed. Of course, he could adulterate those, but its pretty unlikely.

I'm not sure what my hesitation is to getting a lawyer, but its there. If WH pushes to move to D, I'd probably be willing to go to a mediator first, which the courts want to see, anyway, before I'd just get a lawyer. Maybe its part of that "watch what he does, not what he says" WH has not made any moves and the 401K might have been something we did before we were separated to get us back on track. It's very hard to know and I don't fully trust my judgement, but that's where I am today on it.

Sometimes I can connect to feeling real, justifiable anger and that motivates me a litte. Most of the time, I feel sadness, but with a growing appreciation for what I have with the kids, my friends, my family. I am calmer with the kids and feel a little stronger every day, but the thought of seeing him directly makes me physically ill.

I think this time away has given me lots of space to heal, but also lots of space to feel the full force of his betrayal. The thought of seeing him brings back so much pain...

So, enough about that, here's the happy update:

I finished fencing in my yard (it was 3/4 fenced,) with the loveliest conglomeration of fencing that I could find! DS11 helped me quite a bit, but I finished on my own yesterday and now my yard is pug-safe!! I love completing projects at home that I would have had WH do in the past!

I got another massage yesterday and am starting to work out some long-standing knots that I didn't even know I had!

Lovely Saturday with my sister-in-law and brother and their kids. A great reminder for me that although I may lose WH's family in this process (unlikely, but a possibility) I still have my wonderful supportive family!

And finally, tomorrow is St. Patrick's day, which my Irish-American family celebrates every year with potatoes and cabbage (and sometimes cornedbeef)and some jolly time together. I now make colcannon for my potato dish and share it with my non-Irish friends, who love it! Erin go Braugh! (Not sure of the spelling or meaning there, but I'm sure our Irish posters will correct/educate if necessary!)

BF,

Sounds like overall you are doing pretty well. That's great! It's a long hard process to go through. Stay strong and keep as much focus on you and the kids as possible.

As for the 401k, I really think you should seek legal and/or financial advice. Most financial advisors will tell you that cashing out a 401k early is one of the absolute worst things that you can do. You might be better off doing some sort of debt consolidation. There are other options. Whether you would have done this if you were still together or not doesn't make it the right decision. Sounds like you left those decisions up to H and I'm telling you that he doesn't sound to financial 'smart' to me. Protect yourself. You need to be looking at any marrital assets as yours as well and you need to step up and become a decision maker in what gets done rather then letting WH steer the ship. Just my 2 cents....

Mindshare

This is such good advice! Part of why I'm stuggling is that I managed the bills up until Fall 2007. I told WH that I was struggling and I carried a lot of guilt and shame as our debt ballooned.
When I finally laid it all out, he was very understanding and all "let's do this together." He then took over the bills and I felt such a sense of relief.

Not long after, the affair started. I think its related, but that doesn't really matter much at this point.

Then, when he would adjust or change things at the time it seemed to be a good idea. Now I just think he was planning on how he was going to leave me for her and do it without destroying us financially. The only problem there, is that I did not want to be divorced!

So when he moved out and later when I went to Plan B, I asked him to continue paying the bills. It was one stressor off of me. We do a lot of on-line banking, so I can track where money is spent.

He does not want to do debt consolidation or credit counseling. Again, I think he has a plan for reducing debt enough to be able to divorce.

The only asset we have is the house and its mortgage -- no real money there -- just a secure place for my kids.
At this point, nothing but the 401k has changed -- he still pays the bills, I can still see his direct deposits, etc.
What I can't see is how much he is paid for consulting work, which he uses for his apartment. I know roughly the total the contract is for -- only enough to cover his apartment costs, but again, who knows.
Even if I got a lawyer, what could they make him do at this point?

I was thinking of changing my post title, but I'm more confused than ever!!

Interesting how genuinely understanding he was BEFORE the affair. But that was your old H. Now that he has OW and complete financial control, I wonder how "understanding" he will be about YOUR financial future.

Is he actively pursuing D? What makes you think he is or isn't?

And your reluctance to seek legal counsel...is that because you "trust" him to do the right thing, or because you think it would push you further toward D? It wouldn't, you know, unless YOU choose to move in that direction.

I worry for you because it's clear he's not been willing to protect your heart (or your kids' either). Why would you think he would protect your financial future?

BF,

FYI - that 401k is an asset.

You should NOT be following WH's lead on financial decisions at this point. You should be protecting yourself. RTW is asking the right questions. Why would you trust him to do the right thing? Why not seek legal advice? Doesn't mean you have to start the D process. But, you need to educate yourself. Knowledge is power!

You should be seeking professional legal/financial advice. You could stop him from cashing out that 401k through legal means if needed. Don't listen to my advice...I'm just some anonymous poster on a board. Go seek professional advice!! You are leaving yourself terribly exposed right now and I would really hate to see you lose more then you already have. You must protect your future! You must protect your kids future!

Mindshare

I don't think he is actively pursuing a D, but I have no information one way or the other. Early on he said he wanted to go to a mediator since it was less expensive. I guess I can't see him shelling out more money for a lawyer without checking with me again about the mediator.

I don't think I want to pursue a lawyer because I think it would push us further towards a D. I also don't know if I have enough strength, yet, to be the cool customer I would need to be to deal with him again.



You know, I don't think he would scr#w us over financially becasue then all hell would fall upon him by his family. His dad was the most emotionally unavailable person imaginable, but he ALWAYS took care of his kids financially. And in his mom's family, it may be ok to leave your wife because you "fell in love with someone else", it isn't ok to finacially abandon them.

So as sick as it is, its ok for him to break my heart (they don't agree with it or like it, but they will still support him in some way) it is not ok to scr#w me over financially...

BF,

I tried... In a strange sort of twisted way you are actually defending WH. You think he is a 'good guy' that won't financially ruin his family. I hope you are right. You are gambling an awful lot on someone that has already betrayed your trust.

Your are offering excuses for why you cannot seek outside advice. Having a consultation with a lawyer is certainly not going to push you any closer to D unless you want it to. It's just a consulation. It will help you understand your rights. You are just giving excuses to not take action. What are you afraid of?

I hope you don't re-read this portion of your thread months from now and regret not listening to the advice being given.

Mindshare

I totally agree.

BF- if you had an illness (that might be terminal) would you go see a doctor for advice about what to do? Or would you let it just get so bad until it's too late, and there's no hope?

Come on... a free consultation with a lawyer to protect yourself is SMART.

Mindshare and Princemeggy -- when you are right, you are right, as my father would say...

I am afraid, but that doesn't mean that I cannot act. In one of the books I am reading, it talks about how some people (those with codependent traits) tend to react, not ACT. That's me in a nutshell and plan B is a little too comfortable for me right now!

What I mean is, I can sit here and say, 'I don't want a divorce, so anything he does, is on him... The problem is, I need to at least know my rights so I can make informed decisions and be responsive INTELLIGENTLY to his requests, as well as make the best decisions for me and the children.

I will look up some local lawyers tonight and call tomorrow for a consultation.

Mindshare, you are right on -- I am defending him. Some based on the H I used to know, some based on his actions even since d-day and beyond, but I cannot rely on what I see and what I hope to make the best choices for me.

I will keep you all posted, but please understand if I leave out some details as lovely WH may be reading here, as well.

Thank you all for the reality check... I read my quote on my tagline and thought, what a hippocrate you are!! You are afraid and you won't act!
I can do this. Thanks also, to RHW, I will borrow your belief in me for a few days and maybe give it back, IDK. If it feels good, I'll keep it!!

Hey BF!!

I hope you are doing good! Glad to see that you are realizing that you must be proactive when it comes to your best interests and not reactive. Your last post was right on and exactly the point I was trying to make.

How did those phone calls go? Any appointments?

Mindshare

I have an appoinment on monday with a lawyer. In the meantime, WH has received his 401K and will forward a proposal to me this weekend.
He stated that he plans to use part of it for a lawyer -- I reminded him that it is half mine, so we'll see what the proposal is.
I let him know that I would rather we each just consult with lawyers (much less expensive) and begin the mediation process. I do not want to add $10,000 to each of our post-marriage debt loads, so I would rather start with a mediator. I have told him, though that I still do not desire a divorce...

It has been a very confusing, but at times empowering, week. My bad days are not so bad and my good days are getting better.

I had decided also that I am going to do my own kind of 'cake-eating' -- I need help around the house and yard and he has offered. I can arrange for his help without having to see or talk to him and then I can work on my goal to have more fun and enjoy my kids more. Otherwise I am spending all my time taking care of house, etc, and I have had enough. I am a single parent, but I can at least have some help.

I think the time off of the boards this week also gave me a little better idea about what I want -- not what is the 'right' thing to do. Plan A and B make a lot of sense and the distance in B has been hugely helpful. I think I am on path to recovery, but I think it will be without my WH. I think I am starting to be ok with that, because I know I want a healthy, loving partner and WH has only shown his selfishness. Even his financial care of us is more about wanting to be seen as a "good guy" -- not really about caring for me and the kids.
I don't know if I've lost the love for him, but I have lost all respect for him.

So, I got the proposal yesterday from WH. Pretty straightforward -- some in savings to pay the tax on it next year; some to his dad to pay him back; pay off one of our larger credit cards; annddd about 1500 for 'lawyer/mediation/divorce filing'. I knew that would be part of it, but it makes me sad to see it. To know that he wrote that. To imagine that I am nothing to him other than childcare so he can live his life as he wants. To imagine that I am just something to get rid of in his life with 1500 dollars and a meeting or two.

Saturday, when he came to pick-up the kids, I just bawled for about 10 minutes. And then I "did something different" (as my friend suggests) than I normally do -- I went running with DD13. I have not run since August and even though we walked more than ran, it felt wonderful!!

I had a good weekend otherwise -- dinner party and some gardening. Cleaned the house with DD13 and relaxed a good bit yesterday. I pay close attention to the positives, because the sad things in my life are so overwhelming right now.

So that's about all I have to say this morning... I'll update after I meet with the lawyer...

Ooh, bf, I just had to comment. I take walks with D18 all the time; usually at least once a week. It has been an incredible time for us to bond and for her to feel safe to confide in me. If I were you, I'd seek to start making that a weekly activity - so very good for the kids.

Good luck today!

Just a quick note -- WH created a new savings for the money we'll need to pay on taxes next year at our regular bank so I have access to it as well.
Geez, except for the cheating and lying, he's a pretty good guy.
BTW, I am really struggling today. I'm starting to have those "shivers" I had in the summer after d-day. I'd start shaking and couldn't stop... Not sure what's going on...

I feel soooo much better after meeting with the lawyer!!! It was hard, but mindshare and RHW and all who encouraged it were very right -- it was much better to "act" rather than just "react!"

So, I haven't changed how I feel about marriage and the vows I took, but I better understand what I can do and not do in response to WH's desire to D -- at least here in Ohio.

Pretty much what she said was that he has no grounds, but I do not gain anything for myself by "stalling" -- again, it may be different in different states.

So, she had some good information and ideas that I forwarded to WH, but otherwise I felt better "taking care of business." This is not what I want, but if this is where we are headed, I am not going to just let him drive this process while I am uninformed.

I so want some 'normal' in my life, but I don't know when that will happen...

Oh, one last thing: Lawyer was married 20 years and husband cheated on her and they divorced two years ago. She was very interested in MB principals and the site and also was able to empathize with what I was going through! That was hugely helpful and I think when someone has been betrayed, they get the level of pain you've experienced and the need to tread softly and move forward positively.

I think that I am meant to have her help me, just like I think I was really meant to have the counselor I have and this site. It makes me smile just a little to think that someone is looking out for me!

Glad things went well with your attorney. The point about stalling a divorce is that most affairs end and the marriage can be saved. Really, there is usually no hurry to divorce.

I absolutely agree, but if he files on me the process starts here and we will incur so much debt it won't even be funny. I want to at least protect myself and the kids financial future as much as possible!

BF -- glad you met with an attorney. Knowledge is power especially for us D novices. And since OW has been through 2 divorces, I NEED an expert sitting at my table. I haven't retained yet, but I have one ready to go when the next round begins.

And I was one of those BS who trusted WH with all the finances. Felt he would NEVER do anything to mess us up. Well, I was wrong there just like I was wrong believing that WH would never have an A in the first place or ever leave me or ever stop caring for our kids or would initiate a D. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

And it killed me to see my name on the first D papers that WH served me with. Him sueing me. WH vs. BS. Crap. Then on the next papers, him disclosing that he's living with "girlfriend" and her 3 sons AND he's paying over half the household expenses.

Man -- affairs suck. And I have toughened up big time. I grew a pair to get past the initial hurt and they've continued to grow as I've moved forward.

I never wanted this to get dirty but as long as OW is involved and WH is openly supporting her and her brats, then hardball it is.

I WILL be strong for me and my kids. As someone else said, I wouldn't pay for a stick of gum for the OW. Why would I roll over and play dead when it comes to getting what's owed me in the D? So -- BRING IT ON, WH. I AM NOT AFRAID.....

Thanks, Holyheart -- this has been hard, but the more I embrace my feelings and DEAL with them, the less angry I get. I know I am going to be ok, I know that I love H (maybe not WH)and have done what I can to preserve our M. I know I have taken care of the kids and all while I have been grieving. I can look at my actions with kindness and for the most part pride and I also know I will continue to grow and be fully happy some day!