Hi roo,

It's just stress. I don't eat when I am worried or don't feel in control. You must try to keep your energy and strength up. write notes to remind yourself to eat.

"Had an IC appointment yesterday and along with my counselor I came to the conclusion that I have to give my H space and learn more patience. So... I called him tonight and left a voicemail that I feel tolerated when I call him/text him/ask to see him. I said that I know this is his weekend off (F, S, S) and that I'd like to see him but that it's up to him."

Roo, this slightly concerns me. Yes give him space but when you make contact make it very positive and cleaar that you really do want to see him. You didn't need the bit telling him it's up to him.

If my H says that to me then I question whether he really wants to do something.

" I'd really like to see you at the weekend can we meet up?" sounds much more inviting than

"I'd like to see you at the weekend but it's up to you" It's as if you've given up already - you're expecting him to turn you down.

You're not telling him what to do, you're just saying what you'd like - he can still turn around and say "I don't want to".

I really think you need to just be direct about how you feel when you make contact and don't put any doubts in his mind that you do want to see him.

As a WW you can't expect anything back but if you have truly seen the error of your ways and think you can offer him an open, honest committed and faithful marriage then state how you feel.

St

Hi, Roo.

How are you?

"Since the beginning of the year my boss has taken me out to lunch because if people aren't watching, I don't eat. I don't get hungry. I don't know how I feel about it.'

Hey, someone my height!!! Don't get too thin if you can help it, us shorties dont look so good below a certain weight.

I'm doing better than I was a couple of months ago. I don't seem to be losing more weight but rather am holding steady.


Thank you, St.

I'm not too bad. My H replied to my voicemail with a text on Wednesday night that "Sunday can work" and nothing more. So, does that mean I should plan on us getting together?

One thing that came up in my counseling appt. on Monday was this: my IC asked me, "RooGirl - if your H does nothing, changes not a thing about himself - are you still willing to stay in your marriage?" I had to answer honestly...no.

Yes. Make plans and let him know that you have (dinner, a drive, ice skating) so he can see that you're putting in effort and that you're looking forward to the evening with him.

I said the same last year. Several times. And I wouldn't be surprised if my H said the same of me if he was asked the question also. But my H has changed. He's been given a chance to change and he's chosen to do so -- enough to make me want to try to save this M. And thankfully he's giving me a chance to change too.

Give your H the chance, Roo. Make the changes you need to make and by example you can show your H you're serious about this. He can then choose to make changes and stay, make changes and go, or do nothing. You should give it time and remember that you can only control yourself.

Had lunch with H today. We didn't talk much during and the akwardness is hard to work through. He told me a funny bar story from a week or so ago. It included his work "partner" sticking up for him at a bar. I wasn't comfortable with it but didn't know what to say, plus, we were having lunch.

Afterward we went back to his house and started to talk a bit. I asked him, "what is your partner to you?" and he responded that she is probably his closest, most trusted friend. Without promting he told me that he sees her daily (when changing shifts at work) and that they hang out at the bar probably once a week. She is married and has three children. I said, "beware, it's a slippery slope" but at the same time know that I can't control him or her. Perhaps they are simply just really good friends...perhaps. My H said that he's met her husband and their children and that the partner gets stir-crazy at home with kids and needs to get out. Remember, I didn't ask anything other than "what is your partner to you?" I have to remember that I can't control him, I can only control me.

My H then asked who the OM is - to this point he's wanted to know nothing about the A. I told him and he said, "he was my second suspect," the first being a friend I had had since well before we got married. I disengaged from that friendship at the end of 2008 for different reasons, altogether, but the timeline fit so I can see why he was thinking that.

My H told me today that he thinks I tell him, "I own the affair, it was my fault, my choice, nothing to do with you" because it makes me feel better. I replied that no, it does not make me feel better. It's me owning what I've done and wanting him to know that I don't place any blame on him for it at all. I may have AO'd in not an A way when I said next, "I own the A. We both have to own the state of our M before it happened." To that he said that he may have caught on late with the state of our M but that by the time he was trying I would have none of it.

I told him that I still felt tolerated and he said that he was tolerating me.

I feel like I could write a novella tonight but that wont do me any good. Those are the highlights (lowlights?). Any sage advice?

Hi Roo

Pleased that you did get on and have lunch and it could have been a lot worse.

So, he is interested, asking some questions and you are answering openly. Good job.

Rather worryingly though it does sound that he is in an EA with his partner - which I think you knew all along anyway. How did he react to you pointing out "the slippery slope"? Was this happenning before you confessed to yours?

Do you think he understands the dynamics of his relationship with her?

It's no defence for you, but of course at then end when he was trying to work on the M you were still in fantasy land and unable to see. On the other hand his efforts do slightly contradict what you were saying earlier about remaining individuals in your M. You haven't disagreed that he seemed to be trying towards the end. He must have recognised that he did need to put something back into the M rather than being entirely individual.

On reflection can you see that he was making an effort towards the end? If so, let him know.

Have you made arrangements to see him again?

Do you want to? Do you still want to work at your M?

You can still get your life back on track. Can you suggest moving back in with him?

ST



I'll just quote Mark form earlier on your thread:
One of the things I see a BS often doing is trying to talk to an actively wayward spouse about the relationship, the affair, the marriage etc. The problem with this strategy is that seldom do they want to talk about those things very much because they are a source of stress. This fuels the desire to get away rather than creating intimacy within the relationship. Why would I want to talk to my wife about something that causes me stress? Do you follow that?

Yes, it could have been. I asked him if he dreaded me coming out and he said no, but that he wasn't looking forward to it, either.


He's asking questions but I don't know that I would say "interested" - he expressed to me that I have to want this, us back together, working on our relationship. He's right. Doesn't he have to want it, too? This feels, to me, like him staying in his comfort zone where I do the work (and I know I have ALOT to do if we attempt this) and he relaxes on the couch. He's passive.


I remember hearing her name last summer but didn't think too much of it. I was on my way out and didn't care what he did. In fact, I remember thinking that it would be good if he were to find someone. No hurt feelings, no long goodbye, simply that we both moved on.

He replied with something to the effect that they're only friends, he's met her family, she gets stir-crazy home with the kids. I believe in his heart he sees nothing wrong with this. And maybe there isn't. Just because *I* did something so awful does not mean that he or she will.

And yes, they've been close since before I confessed.


No, I'm not sure that he does.


I don't disagree with him when he says he tried because I believe he was trying in the way he knew how - flowers. He brought flowers home a couple of times last year after I told him I wanted to move out. At that point I had been sleeping in our guest bedroom for 3 + months. He did try what he knew. It was not enough at that time.


We didn't talk about that. Next Sunday (his next day off) is Easter and we'll each be with our parents. I don't think I'll see him now until the end of April as I will be traveling to San Francisco for work the week of the 20th and of course he's off work the 21, 22, 23.


It is so frustrating to me to have been reading here since last August and to still not have an answer to these questions. My H is right. I have to want him and our M back. Problem is - I DON'T WANT THAT M BACK. Nope, not even a little bit. We lived completely separate lives, no matter what way I cut it. For me life was work, school and my friends. His life was work and friends. We rarely made time for each other. We were not a priority. And I believe that he wants a relationship like that. Low-key, low maintenance, room to roam and do each other's own thing. I want a best friend. Someone who builds me up and doesn't play devil's advocate when I approach them with something that's hurt me or something I'm struggling with.



I have no doubt that eventually I will have my life on track. I don't know that moving back in with him is the answer. We haven't touched since I confessed. I asked to spend the night on the couch after week one and was told no. I haven't brought it up since then.



I do follow that. I still don't WANT to talk about it but I know that if he asks a question I need to answer it. That's where we are now.

I understand this one -- exactly.

I can't help but wonder if there could be anyway that you two could live together for at least a couple of months. Being under the same roof. Keep your apartment if you think you need to, but could you present it to your H as you two need to do this to see if either of you want to salvage this M? Doing things as you are, you're getting no where as you don't what he wants, it sounds like he doesn't know what he wants, and you're not sure what you want. This is a sorry analogy but it's hard to decide if you want to buy the car if you can't take a test drive.

It might be highly uncomfortable and a horrible few months for you two, but then you'd know this. Then again, being around each other and each other's things might help you realize you do want to work to save the M and make the changes necessary to try. Either way, the investment would be worth it.

Could you pitch it to your H? One more time?

Roo,

It's really not good for you both to continue to remain in limbo indefinitely. If you want a new marriage then be the first to put your foot in the water! It's time for you to go 'all in'!! Tell him that you cannot remain in limbo indefinitely and that you want to give the relationship one more shot, that you want to build a new marriage with him. Based on what you describe of him, he is not going to be the one to take this step so either you have to do it or it's not going to happen. If he will not commit to trying to build a new marriage with you then it is time to move towards the D process so you can move on with your life.

I'm sure you've heard the old saying.....it's time to sh@t or get off the pot!!! It's getting painful to see you stuck in this perpetual limbo with neither one of you stepping up to the plate to just get on with it (whatever it may be)....

Mindshare

Go on Roo, bite the bullet! You just about said yourself that you have been torturing yourself with this for far too long.

I change what I said...

Do not keep your apartment. Go all in as mindshare said. No alternate plans, no back-ups. Really commit. If your H doesn't want to try, then you have your answer. If he wants to try even just kind of, at least that gets your foot in the door so you can see if you can do this in real life.

I know you're trying here, Roo, and you're doing well. This is SO tough and I admire the work you've done, especially considering the obstacles in the way. But I also get the feeling -- more so lately -- that you're fishing for permission from us to give up, D, and move on. I apologize if I'm wrong. And you'll get no judgement coming from me if you do. I just don't read much conviction in your desire to really fight for this M. There's a kind of mourning in your tone for something that hasn't yet happened.

Which is why I think StayTogether, mindshare, and I are all saying give the M a full go, all-stops off, jump in all-the-way, sh*t-or-git-off-the-pot mentality, and make something happen. That way you'll know you did everything and whatever the result will be one that came about honestly.

If you are hesitant about diving all in, I think that says a lot. Maybe that's the answer you've been wanting us to give you.

I brought up the subject of moving back in with him today. His comment yesterda about me needing to want the marriage was right on. I know myself and living without him, I'll never "know." He was not up for that at all. He said "are you crazy?" and things of the like. Not DJs or anything, really. I told him that I wasn't asking to move in today, but that we'd have to be under one roof to make this work. He said he would think about it. Do I give it another month?


Sh@t or get off the pot! My girlfriends have been saying that.

I did ask him about this today and he said, "are you crazy?" We talked a bit and I had to repeat myself several times that I wasn't asking to move back in TODAY. I wanted him to think about it because I know that recovery can't happen if we don't live together. He kept saying, "You want to move back in..." and I had to keep restating what I had said. He said to me, "baby steps, Roo, baby steps." Folks, I don't know how much fight I have in me for baby steps.


You know, there are days that I'm so angry that I told him at all. Because I DON'T know that I want him back. Had he found out either before or after I moved out, he would have had to make the choice to confront me about it or simply let it go as I was already gone. Or, had I KNOWN for a fact that I love my H more than anything in the world and I would lie down on train tracks for him then I could have gone all in from day one. As it is, I told a dirty, awful secret for what? For me to sit around and hem and haw that I don't know what I want to do? That I don't trust that he can be a different man in the future? That I don't trust that he could ever forgive me for this?

There are a few things that weigh heavy on my mind that I've not talked about here. Deeply personal but also possibly deeply important.

1. My H and I terminated a pregnancy 3 years into our relationship. We were not married but living together. I told him I was PG and asked him what he wanted. He said he was not ready to be a father and we terminated the PG.

2. When we got engaged he didn't ask me to marry him. We were in a fight and he just sort of pulled the ring box out and put it in front of me, in a "here, shut up!" sort of way. A few days later I asked that someday in the future, would you please propose? That was 6 + years ago and still no "would you marry me?"

3. I got sick at our wedding. I had not a drop to drink but I was in the ladies room for most of the night. I didn't eat dinner and held up the toasts by a good 10-15 minutes because my bridesmaids were in the bathroom with me, helping me get out of my dress so I could vomit.

Maybe I should just chalk all of this up to terribly bad luck??


Thank you for your insight. I don't have to make a decision today, do I? Really, I so very much appreciate your support. It's a bad day here. A friend of mine got an email from her D lawyer today - it's final and she is no longer married. I feel happy for my friend and a little melancholy for me.

Roo,

I'm really sorry you are feeling so down right now. I'm sure this is very tough.

I wanted to respond to you 'telling the dirtly awful secret'. You did that for yourself as much as for your BH. You knew before hand that you may or may not recover your marriage but you also knew that it was the right thing to do. You did it to give your marriage the best shot possible by being open and honest and you also did it to restore some integrity and honor to yourself. Regardless of what happens with BH you must never...ever allow yourself to be a cheater again. You made a mistake. You own that and to your credit you have definitely been owning that here in your posts. You must learn from it and never allow it to happen again. So, the point I'm making is that you needed to tell your BH regardless of what ultimately ends up happening. It was the right thing to do period.

As for your new disclosures, I'm really sorry to hear that. You have been through an awful lot and it is clear that you are really questioning alot about your marriage and your BH. I would not advocate going back to the marriage you once had. Not a chance! IF you are to go back then you would have to work as hard as possible to be the best Roo you can be and your BH would have to put in the work on his end too. If he doesn't do that then you need to just close this chapter in your life and move on. But, you will never know unless you go 'all in' and give it a good shot. You have learned alot and you are a stronger person because of it. Keep reading and learning. Keep posting here.

I'm behind you whatever decision you ultimately make but you cannot just continue to sit in this limbo h@ll forever!!!!

Mindshare

Roo,

I like MS's analogy of going all in...

Going all or nothing gets you both out of limbo. It might not restore your marriage but it would let you know if you have a chance. If both of you hold back, hang on to something that is kept in reserve and wait to see what the other one will do, you will be right where you are in 6 months.

For your marriage to have any chance, you can't both be renters. It will take at least one of you to become a buyer, to say "Whatever it takes to make us both happy..."

For more on the concept of Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders, see these links:

American Mental Health Alliance
Experience Life Magazine

The first references Dr Harley's work. The second is an article by Dr Harley.

Mark

In my heart I know you're right. It's my head that is messing with me now.


My H told me today that I'm being "crazy." When I asked what he meant he said that I've called a bunch of times and left "random, rambling messages." This is not true. I have left no more than 8-10 messages since D-day and only one of them was rambling and it really wasn't! I was on my way to my mom's for her birthday and thought of when H and I ran all over town for HIS mom's birthday. I left a message that day saying that I missed running around town with him and that I missed and loved him. Is that rambling/random?

It's hard to hear that he thinks I'm crazy. I want to just cry thinking that I did all of this damage and there's seemingly nothing I can do right. I call and want to see him. He "tolerates" me. If I didn't call he'd wonder where I was and what I was up to because he doesn't want to have email and cell phone logins. He says he doesn't have emotional needs but yet his "partner" is his closest, best friend. He told me a story about how she'd stuck up for him at the bar a week or so ago. He doesn't want me back in the house right now. He doesn't know if he will. Gah. I need a beer.


I can't limbo. Not the dance and not this. I'll give him a few days to settle down about me being "crazy." What if I tell him I'm all in and want to move home and he says no? What if he says, "Roo, if you want an answer today then no." Feels like I"m setting myself up for failure.

I believe that you're right. Getting up the courage to say "all in" feels like building up the courage to confess, but almost worse. Confession was "here's this disgusting thing I did that you didn't know about" where this all in feels like "here's what I have to offer - do you want it or not" and have him say NOT.


Thank you, Mark! I took the quiz from the second site and came up with 10 for Buyer, 7 for Renter and 1 for Freeloader. Do you know, is it telling from the numbers what my emotional state is? Will I move to even MORE of a buyer if I go all in? Seems like I would...

Roo,

If he says no then you have an answer and it's time to move on with the D process. You did a bad thing but you don't deserve this limbo h@ll forever! D is not the end of the world! Maybe getting that process started will be a wakeup call for BH?!? Whether it is or not, it gets you out of limbo and on a path to move forward with your life. Maybe BH will never wake up?!?! Maybe he will after you are D'd and if so, and you are so inclined you could begin a new relationship?!?

This spinning of your wheels isn't healthy for you and it's doing you no good. Time to go 'all in' and force him to call or fold....

Mindshare